We're not worried about etiquette today

[turtleback]

I had a strange occurrence the other day.  I went out after school (I'm a teacher) to get in a quick 9 holes.  I was walking.  They sent me off the back nine and for about 4 holes it was clear sailing.  Then I came up on a group of 5 HS kids (playing & walking) and a male adult (not playing).  There was no one in front of them.  The kids had no clue about basic golf course behavior and the adult wasn't doing anything to enlighten them.  They would leave their club on the wrong side of the green and then run across the green to get it.  They had several opportunities to let me play through and never did.  Not even after I picked up a driver that one of them had left on the tee and returned it to them on the next hole.  On one hole the group was up by the green when I teed off (at this point I was waiting a little bit before teeing off so I wouldn't have to wait, stewing, in the fairway).  I hit my drive and as I was walking up I see one of them about 175 yards back from the green walking out of the trees, right where my drive could have killed him?!?!  On another hole they didn't put the flagstick back in when they left the green and then one of them ran back from the next tee to put it in  - right as I'm playing my approach shot.

I wasn't going to say anything, being a non-confrontational kind of guy, but as I walked off the last hole I walked past the adult and he made a comment to the effect of "Thanks for being patient with us."  I replied, "It is nice to take these kids out to teach them how to play but you really should include basic golf etiquette."  To which he said "Oh, we're just getting them out there - we're not concerned about etiquette today."  To which I replied "This is golf - proper etiquette is intrinsic to the game."  And then this guy got all huffy with me.  So I just walked away.

Sheesh!!  Just what we need - kids who are new to the game being taught to be the jerks of the future.  When I took my friends out (I was the first to play golf) - when I took my Dad out - when I took my kids out - when I took my wife out - the first thing I did was make sure they knew the do's and don'ts of how to act on a golf course.

Come to find out this guy is a HS teacher and the faculty adviser for the golf club at one of the local HSs and this was an outing of the golf club.  It made me ashamed to be a teacher.

[SVTGolfer]

Its super frustrating! I know… But sadly this is not a new occurrence. The younger kids (Im 27 myself) have no etiquette today.

[GaijinGolfer]

Originally Posted by turtleback

I wasn't going to say anything, being a non-confrontational kind of guy, but as I walked off the last hole I walked past the adult and he made a comment to the effect of "Thanks for being patient with us."  I replied, "It is nice to take these kids out to teach them how to play but you really should include basic golf etiquette."  To which he said "Oh, we're just getting them out there - we're not concerned about etiquette today."  To which I replied "This is golf - proper etiquette is intrinsic to the game."  And then this guy got all huffy with me.  So I just walked away.

I probably would have gotten all huffy with you too after you made comments like that.  Comments like that were not neccesary and you should have just said, "thats nice" and walked away.

[sacm3bill]

I'm with you turtleback, and would've handled it exactly the same way. Etiquette should be the first thing taught, and any golf coach should know that. You were right to politely explain that to him.

[SVTGolfer]

Originally Posted by TitleistWI

I probably would have gotten all huffy with you too after you made comments like that.  Comments like that were not neccesary and you should have just said, "thats nice" and walked away.

Seriously??? Wow…

[turtleback]

Originally Posted by TitleistWI

I probably would have gotten all huffy with you too after you made comments like that.  Comments like that were not neccesary and you should have just said, "thats nice" and walked away.

Then I am sorry to say you are just as big a part of the problem as he was.  I wasn't confrontational at all.  But maybe you don't think proper golf course behavior is important?  How are these kids going to learn if the responsible adult isn't responsible?

[SVTGolfer]

Originally Posted by turtleback

Then I am sorry to say you are just as big a part of the problem as he was.  I wasn't confrontational at all.  But maybe you don't think proper golf course behavior is important?  How are these kids going to learn if the responsible adult isn't responsible?

Maybe he's the guy wearing flip flops or jeans and a t-shirt??? Hahaha

[Stretch]

Originally Posted by turtleback

Then I am sorry to say you are just as big a part of the problem as he was.  I wasn't confrontational at all.  But maybe you don't think proper golf course behavior is important?  How are these kids going to learn if the responsible adult isn't responsible?

Quite right. Learning how to play golf may be hard but learning how to act on a golf course is easy. Unfortunately, lots of people can't be bothered to teach their kids how to behave anywhere , so it's not exactly surprising.

[golf4fun12]

yeah, if turtleback would of got confrontational with the guy, that would of shown bad etiquette. golf or not. I have only taken my gf and friend on the course and I always point out golf etiquette stuff wherever I see it. like push carts on the green. when to hit first or putt first. everything like that. My gf didn't know anything about golf when I took her out for the first time, so, I wanted to play a little I Love Lucy joke on her and teach her some funny stuff. I didn't cause that would of embarrassed her since we were playing with another 2some.

but yeah, don't confront him. just contradicts your feelings on golf.

how old was the teacher helping the kids?

[Arsenal8807]

It's easy for people who have an understanding of the game and etiquette that the game carries but its one thing to assume that a group ahead of you understands the etiquette in golf. I think you just have to have an open mind and not come the the assumption that others know the game and all it possesses.

I've been behind a small and slow group before but they did say sorry and it was their first time to play the course after getting numerous lessons, plus they were from Japan and so the language barrier was there and all but I had respect for them still because not only are they trying to play a very difficult game, they had the manners of a golfer who understands "etiquette" to take the time to come to the words in English to say sorry.

I do sympathize for your situation because I wouldn't like to be in your shoes either but just know that some people aren't always familiar with "simple golf etiquette"..

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by TitleistWI

I probably would have gotten all huffy with you too after you made comments like that.  Comments like that were not neccesary and you should have just said, "thats nice" and walked away.

Surely you're kidding????  Turtleback did less than I would have in the same situation.  This guy is supposed to be a teacher .  If he doesn't know any better then someone needs to clue him in.

I've seen high school golf coaches who were just as clueless.  One I've met who didn't even play golf.  He was only doing it because he got a little extra money for it and nobody else volunteered.  I gave him my copy of the previous year's rule book, showed him how it was arranged and how to use it, and he thanked me for giving him a hand.  He didn't know much about the game, but he wanted to learn because he actually wanted to do right by the kids he was working with.  In my opinion, that's the sort of example a teacher should set.

[NEOHMark]

IMHO, turtleback, you handled it right.  That guy had an obligation to teach these kids the correct way to play.  It's not just about etiquette, it's also a matter of safety.  These kids exposed themselves to unnecessary risks in several instances you described simply by being ignorant.  There's a reason why the player away hits first (unless the group is solid enough in knowledge & common sense to play 'ready' golf).  There's a reason you clear the green, to the rear or side, ASAP and write your scores down, grab a slug of your drink, etc. on the next tee box.  There's a reason you don't leave a player in your group back 175 yds looking for his ball in the woods while the rest of the group is putting on the green.  There's a reason why slower groups should let faster groups through when there is open real estate in front of them.

Those were all teaching moments, and the HS 'advisor' failed miserably.

I also fault the golf course's management.  It's not rocket science to determine a fivesome is playing against course rules.  If management condoned the fivesome, then they also should have instructed them to let faster players/groups through.  It's also not difficult to send a ranger around the course every half hour or so to make sure groups are on expected pace-to-play.  A golf course is like a two lane highway with no passing zones.  It only takes one slow-play group to back up an entire course where it actually costs the course money in lower revenues.  It's up to the rangers to determine where the bottlenecks are occurring and direct traffic when necessary.  That means being proactive and keeping at least a loose tracking of how the pace of play is going overall.

Slow play and lack of etiquette will be the death of this game IMHO.

[tristanhilton85]

Originally Posted by Arsenal8807

It's easy for people who have an understanding of the game and etiquette that the game carries but its one thing to assume that a group ahead of you understands the etiquette in golf. I think you just have to have an open mind and not come the the assumption that others know the game and all it possesses.

I've been behind a small and slow group before but they did say sorry and it was their first time to play the course after getting numerous lessons, plus they were from Japan and so the language barrier was there and all but I had respect for them still because not only are they trying to play a very difficult game, they had the manners of a golfer who understands "etiquette" to take the time to come to the words in English to say sorry.

I do sympathize for your situation because I wouldn't like to be in your shoes either but just know that some people aren't always familiar with "simple golf etiquette"..

There is a difference though... in your situation it was just a random group that was playing slow and was new to the game... there was nobody there to teach them etiquette.

In the OP, it was five HS kids and a teacher... IMO that teacher's #1 responsibility is to teach those kids etiquette BEFORE anything else. I remember when I was on the HS team we went over etiquette stuff before we ever got on a course and if we didn't follow etiquette we would hear about it.  In fact, I remember once when an opposing twosome hit their drive before my teammate and I did and they took off walking down the fairway when the were done... didn't even wait for us.  Needless to say that my coach (and the other one) were not happy and those kids got an earful.

[jetsknicks1]

Originally Posted by turtleback

Then I am sorry to say you are just as big a part of the problem as he was.  I wasn't confrontational at all.  But maybe you don't think proper golf course behavior is important?  How are these kids going to learn if the responsible adult isn't responsible?

^^^^^^This. I was an adult when I picked up the game but the guys who introduced me to it made sure to teach me proper etiquitte first & foremost.

[Arsenal8807]

Originally Posted by jetsknicks1

^^^^^^This. I was an adult when I picked up the game but the guys who introduced me to it made sure to teach me proper etiquitte first & foremost.

Here Here!

For someone to go forward and tell the group that may not know about some course etiquette would be a good thing to do. I'll keep that in mind although I haven't had any situation like this.

[walk18]

Did they really not put the flagstick back in the hole? They just left it lying on the green? Wow, that one should not have to be explained.

[jetsknicks1]

Originally Posted by Arsenal8807

Here Here!

For someone to go forward and tell the group that may not know about some course etiquette would be a good thing to do. I'll keep that in mind although I haven't had any situation like this.

I agree but going to a group of strangers trying to explain proper etiquitte can be a sticky situation that has the potential to turn ugly. I feel it should always be the responsibilty of the person introducing someone new to the game to teach them the rules. I have a friend who started playing a few years ago and I made sure to do for him, what my friends did for me.

[turtleback]

Originally Posted by golf4fun12

yeah, if turtleback would of got confrontational with the guy, that would of shown bad etiquette. golf or not. I have only taken my gf and friend on the course and I always point out golf etiquette stuff wherever I see it. like push carts on the green. when to hit first or putt first. everything like that. My gf didn't know anything about golf when I took her out for the first time, so, I wanted to play a little I Love Lucy joke on her and teach her some funny stuff. I didn't cause that would of embarrassed her since we were playing with another 2some.

but yeah, don't confront him. just contradicts your feelings on golf.

how old was the teacher helping the kids?

Mid-40's.  Old enough to know better.