The Dan Plan - 10,000 Hours to Become a Pro Golfer (Dan McLaughlin)

[nevets88]

Make a concerted effort to find a really good pro, learn how to practice, use video properly, etc... TL;DR, try harder.

[Pretzel]

Make a concerted effort to find a really good pro, learn how to practice, use video properly, etc... TL;DR, try harder.

Is this advice to the guy tweeting or to Dan? It works both ways...

[DrvFrShow]

The simple fact that this thread has gone on for 215 pages of mostly heated discussion has proven that Dan's publicity campaign has worked. Nosevi's more realistic plan has only garnered 22 pages of attention since February. Much of those pages have been long posts of charts occupying most of the pages. Over four years at that rate would amount to just around 100 pages if that.

Human interest stories generate more volume than hard work.

[Nosevi]

The simple fact that this thread has gone on for 215 pages of mostly heated discussion has proven that Dan's publicity campaign has worked. Nosevi's more realistic plan has only garnered 22 pages of attention since February. Much of those pages have been long posts of charts occupying most of the pages. Over four years at that rate would amount to just around 100 pages if that.

Human interest stories generate more volume than hard work.

Nice of you to say.

The thing is "realistic" isn't really all that interesting. I think it would be a massive achievement to get to what amounts to a shade above mini tour level having not played the game until my mid 30s but people who don't understand just how hard that would be aren't going to be interested. By contrast a target like PGA Tour splits opinion between those who truly understand how hard that is and what a miniscule proportion of the golfing population could even possibly do it if they did everything right (ie the plan and training was perfect) and those who really don't.

If Dan's plan was perfect - if he had the best coaches, the best technology, the best fitness regime and trainer, players in the plus 4 to plus 6 handicap range to practice with and he had an unbelievable work ethic - I'd guess his chance would be 1 in a thousand, possibly less. I hope Dan realises his potential (which in reality is all you can ever do). My only frustration with 'The Dan Plan' isn't like Shorty - that he gets all the attention etc - I couldn't care less. It's that he won't realise his potential because he's not doing the things he'll need to do in order to achieve that. Bottom line, he needs to know his target (and by that I mean in performance terms), he needs to know his current position (in performance terms) and above all he needs an actual plan to take him between the two. 

[Shorty]

My only frustration with 'The Dan Plan' isn't like Shorty - that he gets all the attention etc - I couldn't care less. 

If Dan's plan was perfect - if he had the best coaches, the best technology, the best fitness regime and trainer, players in the plus 4 to plus 6 handicap range to practice with and he had an unbelievable work ethic - I'd guess his chance would be 1 in a thousand, possibly less.

My frustration with Dan is that in my opinion he is not honest. He avoids the real questions and skirts around things to paint himself in the best possible light without ever backing himself up. Saying he is "holding his own" in some tournaments but not actually saying how he went, for example. Saying that he see no reason why +5 or +6 is not possible.  I could say he is a fool, but he is delusional, not stupid.

 

As for the second part, 1 in a 1000? Why not 1 in 100 million? He just doesn't have it. Full stop. He could sleep in Jack Nicklaus's spare room and he'd still have zero chance of achieving his goal. Imagine if the goal was final 16 in the US Amateur. That is laughable, yet people think the "plan" (which is a thousand times more idiotic)  is on track. It's a complete joke.

The competition is fit young guys whose games have everything and who shoot low 60s and still get smoked. Where does a person in their 30s fit? It could be the fourth tier in Europe or Asia. It's simply not happening for anyone.

Edited October 29, 2015 by Shorty

[Nosevi]

My frustration with Dan is that in my opinion he is not honest. He avoids the real questions and skirts around things to paint himself in the best possible light without ever backing himself up. Saying he is "holding his own" in some tournaments but not actually saying how he went, for example. Saying that he see no reason why +5 or +6 is not possible.  I could say he is a fool, but he is delusional, not stupid.

 

As for the second part, 1 in a 1000? Why not 1 in 100 million? He just doesn't have it. Full stop. He could sleep in Jack Nicklaus's spare room and he'd still have zero chance of achieving his goal. Imagine if the goal was final 16 in the US Amateur. That is laughable, yet people think the "plan" (which is a thousand times more idiotic)  is on track. It's a complete joke.

The competition is fit young guys whose games have everything and who shoot low 60s and still get smoked. Where does a person in their 30s fit? It could be the fourth tier in Europe or Asia. It's simply not happening for anyone.

Fourth tier sounds about right to me, Shorty which is why I think trying for the third tier down from the European Tour (ie Europro, Sunshine Tour, Alps Tour etc) is 'shooting for the stars'. I've seen how good guys who play at this level are, they often get there having been amateurs playing off about plus 4 or even plus 5. I played 9 holes of matchplay with a guy who plays off plus 4.6 two days ago and got well and truly thrashed as he shot 5 birdies in 9 holes from the 'tips' on a course with CR 73. I think tier 3 in Europe is an outside possibility for someone to achieve later in life but even that's a stretch. 

Edited October 29, 2015 by Nosevi

[Lihu]

The simple fact that this thread has gone on for 215 pages of mostly heated discussion has proven that Dan's publicity campaign has worked. Nosevi's more realistic plan has only garnered 22 pages of attention since February. Much of those pages have been long posts of charts occupying most of the pages. Over four years at that rate would amount to just around 100 pages if that.

Human interest stories generate more volume than hard work.

I got chased out of that thread by some ugly British talk. . .

Yeah, it might be more realistic, but still extremely difficult. As I read through more of the talent code more, I realized that it applies mostly to young children. Makes sense, though. It also makes sense that most golfers who make it big are already hopefuls by 13.

 

Fourth tier sounds about right to me, Shorty which is why I think trying for the third tier down from the European Tour (ie Europro, Sunshine Tour, Alps Tour etc) is 'shooting for the stars'. I've seen how good guys who play at this level are, they often get there having been amateurs playing off about plus 4 or even plus 5. I played 9 holes of matchplay with a guy who plays off plus 4.6 two days ago and got well and truly thrashed as he shot 5 birdies in 9 holes from the 'tips' on a course with CR 73. I think tier 3 in Europe is an outside possibility for someone to achieve later in life but even that's a stretch. 

I've also watched pros play casual rounds, and on a few holes can imagine a scratch holding his own against a pro.

However, golf is about statistics at that level. There are probably more than 50,000 plus handicap golfers around the world all capable of holding their own against a pro for one round. Can all of them play at that level as consistently as a pro for many rounds? No. Otherwise, they would mostly be pros.

 

 

[Nosevi]

I got chased out of that thread by some ugly British talk. . .

Yeah, it might be more realistic, but still extremely difficult. As I read through more of the talent code more, I realized that it applies mostly to young children. Makes sense, though. It also makes sense that most golfers who make it big are already hopefuls by 13.

 

I've also watched pros play casual rounds, and on a few holes can imagine a scratch holding his own against a pro.

However, golf is about statistics at that level. There are probably more than 50,000 plus handicap golfers around the world all capable of holding their own against a pro for one round. Can all of them play at that level as consistently as a pro for many rounds? No. Otherwise, they would mostly be pros.

 

 

Regarding being 'chased out' I'd just like to pount out to any that read this thread but don't read that thread that it was in no way by me.

Regarding the second part, totally agree. The guy I was playing with who plays off plus 4.6 and shot 10 under the course rating the day before is looking to make the STEP UP to the European Tour. I've also played with guys who have played on the European Tour. Until you actually go toe to toe, off the same tee on the same course, at the same time with guys like that you won't know just how good they are. That's not aimed at you Lihu  it's aimed at what I see as a bit of a blind spot in the Dan Plan - knowing exactly what your target is in real, performance related terms.

[Lihu]

Regarding the second part, totally agree. The guy I was playing with who plays off plus 4.6 and shot 10 under the course rating the day before is looking to make the STEP UP to the European Tour. I've also played with guys who have played on the European Tour. Until you actually go toe to toe, off the same tee on the same course, at the same time with guys like that you won't know just how good they are. That's not aimed at you Lihu  it's aimed at what I see as a bit of a blind spot in the Dan Plan - knowing exactly what your target is in real, performance related terms.

Not even necessary to write! I've never even considered going toe to toe against a pro player at any level even if given 20 strokes!

[Pretzel]

Regarding being 'chased out' I'd just like to pount out to any that read this thread but don't read that thread that it was in no way by me.

Regarding the second part, totally agree. The guy I was playing with who plays off plus 4.6 and shot 10 under the course rating the day before is looking to make the STEP UP to the European Tour. I've also played with guys who have played on the European Tour. Until you actually go toe to toe, off the same tee on the same course, at the same time with guys like that you won't know just how good they are. That's not aimed at you Lihu  it's aimed at what I see as a bit of a blind spot in the Dan Plan - knowing exactly what your target is in real, performance related terms.

The funny thing about this is that he played in the pro-am at Pebble Beach. He should be wiser than he is in that regard.

[Nosevi]

Not even necessary to write! I've never even considered going toe to toe against a pro player at any level even if given 20 strokes!

We just all play off scratch ......... and I lose. But I don't lose quite as abysmally as I used to  The point is Dan's trying to close the gap between himself and a pro down to zero. To do that he needs to know what he's aiming at.

The funny thing about this is that he played in the pro-am at Pebble Beach. He should be wiser than he is in that regard.

Maybe he is. I'm kind of giving him the benefit of the doubt. If he does know hoe far he needs to go in every area of the game in terms of performance on the course, strokes lost, ball striking ability etc there's nothing about it on his blog as far as I can tell.

Edited October 29, 2015 by Nosevi

[Lihu]

The funny thing about this is that he played in the pro-am at Pebble Beach. He should be wiser than he is in that regard.

Agree, it's very strange.

IDK how he expects to get to their level without understanding how good he is himself? He scored 66 on the Combine, it seems like that in itself should be a good indicator.

We just all play off scratch ......... and I lose. But I don't lose quite as abysmally as I used to 

Maybe he is. I'm kind of giving him the benefit of the doubt. If he does know hoe far he needs to go in every area of the game in terms of performance on the course, strokes lost, ball striking ability etc there's nothing about it on his blog as far as I can tell.

Sure, but even Mark Crossfield lost pretty abysmally starting in the second video, he was already 2 strokes down. Guessing he lost by 4-10 strokes in just that one round? No video after the last hole after part 2.

One of the other golfers playing in their foursome seemed like he was better than Mark, possibly a better plus handicap than Mark?

[DrvFrShow]

One thing about Mark's video I caught was the remark he made in the beginning about pushing a trolley vs riding a buggy. He's used to riding. Golf is an entirely different game when you're walking a course than it is when you're riding. If you're used to riding around it can make you soft for the back 9.

 

[Shorty]

The funny thing about this is that he played in the pro-am at Pebble Beach. He should be wiser than he is in that regard.

He did not play in the pro-am at Pebble Beach. He played on the Monday following the tournament. 

[Lihu]

One thing about Mark's video I caught was the remark he made in the beginning about pushing a trolley vs riding a buggy. He's used to riding. Golf is an entirely different game when you're walking a course than it is when you're riding. If you're used to riding around it can make you soft for the back 9.

I agree that golf is really easy when you ride a cart versus walking and pushing, but I doubt that's why he played so badly as compared with Lee Westwood.

One thing I've noticed in the pros is their smoothness. Even really good amateurs look like they are working to hit the ball. Every time I read about someone making a "nice easy swing" to 300 yards, I think .

[Shorty]

I agree that golf is really easy when you ride a cart versus walking and pushing, but I doubt that's why he played so badly as compared with Lee Westwood.

 

That is completely absurd. Unless you are playing an incredibly hilly course on an incredibly hot day and/or are elderly or infirm, you have a serious problem if walking the course affects your score.

In fact, carts make my game worse. In a ddition to sitting, which is bad for the back, I like to approach my ball at walking pace.

In 40+ years of playing golf and using a push/pull cart for 99.9% of my golf ( I would say I have ridden in a cart perhaps 10 times) I speak from experience.

There is nothing sadder than seeing a young (presumably healthy) man riding in a golf cart.

What's more, if you are in a golf cart and you think you are engaging in a healthy pursuit, you (not you, Lihu) are mistaken. You may as well be watching TV. Especially if smoking cigars and drinking alcohol or "sports drinks" is part of your golf experience.

 

Now. On topic.

Mark Crossfield would beat Dan by 10 shots any day of the week.

Mark Crossfield could not make a living playing minor tours anywhere in the world.

Dan thinks he is on track to play PGATour.

Presumably, he thinks that potentially he is closer to Westwood than Crossfield.

Go figure.

Edited October 29, 2015 by Shorty

[Lihu]

That is completely absurd. Unless you are playing an incredibly hilly course on an incredibly hot day and/or are elderly or infirm, you have a serious problem if walking the course affects your score.

In fact, carts make my game worse. In a ddition to sitting, which is bad for the back, I like to approach my ball at walking pace.

In 40+ years of playing golf and using a push/pull cart for 99.9% of my golf ( I would say I have ridden in a cart perhaps 10 times) I speak from experience.

There is nothing sadder than seeing a young (presumably healthy) man riding in a golf cart.

What's more, if you are in a golf cart and you think you are engaging in a healthy pursuit, you (not you, Lihu) are mistaken. You may as well be watching TV. Especially if smoking cigars and drinking alcohol or "sports drinks" is part of your golf experience.

 

Now. On topic.

Mark Crossfield would beat Dan by 10 shots any day of the week.

Mark Crossfield could not make a living playing minor tours anywhere in the world.

Dan thinks he is on track to play PGATour.

Presumably, he thinks that potentially he is closer to Westwood than Crossfield.

Go figure.

I never mentioned that your score would go up, but that it's much easier because you don't have to walk. Carts allow you to play much faster, though.

Mark Crossfield is likely a plus handicap so, I'm guessing that he would beat Dan by more than 10 strokes? Although, Dan's 83 at Pebble Beach indicates some level of competence?

[Shorty]

I never mentioned that your score would go up, but that it's much easier because you don't have to walk.

I don't believe it makes golf easier unless you are crippled or playing in horrendous heat or humidity.