The Dan Plan - 10,000 Hours to Become a Pro Golfer (Dan McLaughlin)

[Lihu]

This is part of a  response by someone in his blog, people are more aware of his lack of progress than he is it seems.

I understand you did not intend to get on a soap box about the lack of interest by golf organizations in helping you out. Still it came across as whining. At this point there have not been any significant achievements that would earn you the financial support from the golfing community. There are a lot of 3-5 handicappers out there. Until you work your way on to the national stage with your golf skill, you won’t garner much attention except as a human interest story.

I read this too. Dan just doesn't win enough to people to really notice him. If he had won any of the tournaments, he would have a lot more attention given his plan.

BTW, there are also the ones questioning his amateur status too.

[newtogolf]

I read this too. Dan just doesn't win enough to people to really notice him. If he had won any of the tournaments, he would have a lot more attention given his plan.

BTW, there are also the ones questioning his amateur status too.

Dan doesn't have to win.  I agree with the poster to his blog, there are a ton of 3-5 handicappers out there but I don't know any of there names.  Dan has a platform (his blog and goal) he's just too lazy or uninformed to work it into something that would garner him more attention from sponsors.

If he wants someone to sponsor him beyond a set of clubs, he needs to demonstrate some value in return, to date he's made little effort to do so.

Overall he comes off as an entitled kid who is whining because no one is handing him money to play golf.

[MS256]

Originally Posted by nevets88

"I'd say the chances of me playing an event on Tour are now 25 per cent."

Wow! Going by Dan's standards I know several people whose chances must be 40% to 50%.

I had no idea they were that close (and they don't know it either).

Can't wait to tell them and can't wait until they all get on Tour so I can root for them.

[Pretzel]

Wow! Going by Dan's standards I know several people whose chances must be 40% to 50%.

I had no idea they were that close (and they don't know it either).

Can't wait to tell them and can't wait until they all get on Tour so I can root for them.

I must have at least a solid 30% chance at this point, especially since my tournament scores are better than Dan's.

Hey, John Deere, I'll take an exemption into next year's tournament if you've got an extra lying around you don't plan on using!

Edit: Reading his most recent post, I'm completely baffled as to why he needs more money to create video content. You can create fairly decent videos with an iPhone camera, assuming you're using an external microphone, and I would be very surprised if he didn't have a smartphone of some kind that he could record his videos with. It's a given he has a computer, due to his blogging, so with a smartphone, a free video editing application, and a cheap lapel microphone (iShot sells one for under $60 that also would hook up to his phone) he has all of the tools required to create some decent video content if he puts in the time.

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pretzel

I must have at least a solid 30% chance at this point, especially since my tournament scores are better than Dan's.

Hey, John Deere, I'll take an exemption into next year's tournament if you've got an extra lying around you don't plan on using!

Can you hit out of Swiss golf course rough? Because Dan can't. If you can, I would put your chances at 50% on his scale.

Quote:

The rough was different too.  I think it may have been from the fact that the course is closing for the winter next week and because it dumped rain two days prior, but this course had some of the longest and thickest rough I have ever played on. When the ball landed off the fairway in the deep rough you literally had to hit a wedge 20 yards back to the fairway instead of trying to advance the ball.  It took a couple of tries to hit long irons or hybrids out of it to realize that was not going to be possible.

[Pretzel]

I looked up the appropriate rule on Dan's amateur status, and this is what it looks like:

Quote:

An amateur golfer may enter into a contract and/or agreement with a third party (including but not limited to a professional agent or a sponsor), provided:

(i) the golfer is at least 18 years of age,

(ii) the contract or agreement is solely in relation to the golfer’s future as a professional golfer and does not stipulate playing in certain amateur or professional events as an amateur golfer , and

(iii) except as otherwise provided in the Rules , the amateur golfer does not obtain payment, compensation or any financial gain, directly or indirectly, while still an amateur golfer .

So do you think that he has violated this (specifically the third section, in terms of compensation)?

[nevets88]

I looked up the appropriate rule on Dan's amateur status, and this is what it looks like: [QUOTE]

An amateur golfer may enter into a contract and/or agreement with a third party (including but not limited to a professional agent or a sponsor), provided:

(i) the golfer is at least 18 years of age,

(ii) the contract or agreement is solely in relation to the golfer’s future as a professional golfer and does not stipulate playing in certain amateur or professional events as an amateur golfer , and

(iii) except as otherwise provided in the Rules , the amateur golfer does not obtain payment, compensation or any financial gain, directly or indirectly, while still an amateur golfer .

[/QUOTE] So do you think that he has violated this (specifically the third section, in terms of compensation)?

And the donate button on his web site. Kind of grey-ish.

[flopster]

Obviously Dan is showing how little he really knows about the level he aspires to achieve or it was something to throw out to the non golfer supporters out there (I'm going with the latter ), I'm not sure how much losing amateur status will affect him other than not being able to play in any am events for at least 2 years I think.to the real golfing community it looks more like a guy trying to get people and companies to fund his 8 year sabbatical from work to be a man of leisure. Personally I don't think Dan ever thought he had a remote chance of getting on tour, I think he thought this would be a cool way to spend the next 8 years and by chance something big falls in his lap then hooray.

[natureboy]

Obviously Dan is showing how little he really knows about the level he aspires to achieve or it was something to throw out to the non golfer supporters out there(I'm going with the latter), I'm not sure how much losing amateur status will affect him other than not being able to play in any am events for at least 2 years I think.to the real golfing community it looks more like a guy trying to get people and companies to fund his 8 year sabbatical from work to be a man of leisure. Personally I don't think Dan ever thought he had a remote chance of getting on tour, I think he thought this would be a cool way to spend the next 8 years and by chance something big falls in his lap then hooray.

Even though I suspect there is a lot of truth in your statement at this stage in his progress, I would give him the benefit of the doubt on his intentions at the beginning. I still like the idea of someone taking on the challenge and trying.

I have wondered how does he finance all his hours playing and not working a day job. Just from donations? Probably his after project plan is book / paid speaking engagements.

His lack of serious lessons & research into the golf swing (using forums like this) so he can improve the effectiveness of his practice does make him seem less serious.

The suggestions about reality show tie-in or regular video blogs like Cristo's 'My Swing Evolution' are spot-on. Dan really should be on this forum.

[nevets88]

If there's one thing that sticks out to me from this whole experience, it is that golf is expensive. Not in a money sense, in an overall sense.

You need to spend money, spend time to practice, expend your brain and fortitude to practice smart, stay on track and stay focused and positive. In the Dan Plan's case, he just didn't have the money or enough to let himself explore more instruction options and the time spent getting funding hurt.

I do think it is possible for an average person, no physical disability, average strength and athleticism, living in a place like Florida who has "optimal" information and pro who really knows what he/she is doing and enough discretionary income and time from the very beginning to get to a legit 0-5 handicap in fewer than 10K hours. I'd even argue not < 10K hours but I dunno, 2 years, forget hour counting. I guess this is what I kind of wanted to see The Dan Plan to confirm, to "prove" my own "theory" out. At the beginning, I was thinking in 2-3 years, maybe he'd be consistently breaking 80 in state ams, occasionally breaking 75 and around now, consistently breaking 75.

Going above that level, that's where talent really starts to kick in and I really didn't think it was fair to hold him to that.

[Lihu]

If there's one thing that sticks out to me from this whole experience, it is that golf is expensive. Not in a money sense, in an overall sense. You need to spend money, spend time to practice, expend your brain and fortitude to practice smart, stay on track and stay focused and positive. In the Dan Plan's case, he just didn't have the money or enough to let himself explore more instruction options and the time spent getting funding hurt. I do think it is possible for an average person, no physical disability, average strength and athleticism, living in a place like Florida who has "optimal" information and pro who really knows what he/she is doing and enough discretionary income and time from the very beginning to get to a legit 0-5 handicap in fewer than 10K hours. I'd even argue not < 10K hours but I dunno, 2 years, forget hour counting. I guess this is what I kind of wanted to see The Dan Plan to confirm, to "prove" my own "theory" out. At the beginning, I was thinking in 2-3 years, maybe he'd be consistently breaking 80 in state ams, occasionally breaking 75 and around now, consistently breaking 75. Going above that level, that's where talent really starts to kick in and I really didn't think it was fair to hold him to that.

There are a lot of variables in golf. Even if your swing is pretty decent, you can still be a 20 handicap, not going to name names. There are so many things that need to be integrated together to make pars and birdies. Of course, length is pretty key, but getting to the level where everything is more instinctive than conscious is pretty important in golf. This takes a lot of time playing on different courses. The way Dan is talking about rough, tree roots, hitting overhead branches and such is the way a 14 handicap would discuss it. Even though he has spent a lot of time training his ball striking, he has too little experience playing the game on different courses. This is a big difference between kids starting at 5 and adults starting to play this game. Those kids have 15 years experience by the time they get to an adult. Even with the same ball striking ability, these kids will probably shoot 4-8 strokes better that adults with a late start. After a few years maybe things can even out and there are exceptions considering naturally talented adults, but not that many because even the kids that continue to play as adults probably posess the same talent. Most of the PGA pros were scratch by the time they got into high school or in high school, and they were probably the best players in their area. Talent is funny that way. It demonstrates itself by winning. I'm not that confident about any "average" person can get to 0-5 handicap, my gut tells me high singles, maybe. Low teens is probably more realistic.

[nevets88]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nevets88

If there's one thing that sticks out to me from this whole experience, it is that golf is expensive. Not in a money sense, in an overall sense.

You need to spend money, spend time to practice, expend your brain and fortitude to practice smart, stay on track and stay focused and positive. In the Dan Plan's case, he just didn't have the money or enough to let himself explore more instruction options and the time spent getting funding hurt.

I do think it is possible for an average person, no physical disability, average strength and athleticism, living in a place like Florida who has "optimal" information and pro who really knows what he/she is doing and enough discretionary income and time from the very beginning to get to a legit 0-5 handicap in fewer than 10K hours. I'd even argue not < 10K hours but I dunno, 2 years, forget hour counting. I guess this is what I kind of wanted to see The Dan Plan to confirm, to "prove" my own "theory" out. At the beginning, I was thinking in 2-3 years, maybe he'd be consistently breaking 80 in state ams, occasionally breaking 75 and around now, consistently breaking 75.

Going above that level, that's where talent really starts to kick in and I really didn't think it was fair to hold him to that.

There are a lot of variables in golf. Even if your swing is pretty decent, you can still be a 20 handicap, not going to name names. There are so many things that need to be integrated together to make pars and birdies. Of course, length is pretty key, but getting to the level where everything is more instinctive than conscious is pretty important in golf. This takes a lot of time playing on different courses.

The way Dan is talking about rough, tree roots, hitting overhead branches and such is the way a 14 handicap would discuss it. Even though he has spent a lot of time training his ball striking, he has too little experience playing the game on different courses. This is a big difference between kids starting at 5 and adults starting to play this game. Those kids have 15 years experience by the time they get to an adult. Even with the same ball striking ability, these kids will probably shoot 4-8 strokes better that adults with a late start. After a few years maybe things can even out and there are exceptions considering naturally talented adults, but not that many because even the kids that continue to play as adults probably posess the same talent.

Most of the PGA pros were scratch by the time they got into high school or in high school, and they were probably the best players in their area. Talent is funny that way. It demonstrates itself by winning.

I'm not that confident about any "average" person can get to 0-5 handicap, my gut tells me high singles, maybe. Low teens is probably more realistic.

I respectfully disagree. An "average" person on the coordination scale, is not going to throw a 90 mph fastball, but is more coordinated than 50% of all persons, is pretty coordinated.

I think that if the general consensus is that this isn't possible speaks to how bad overall golf instruction is.

[Lihu]

I respectfully disagree. An "average" person on the coordination skill, is not going to throw a 90 mph fastball, but is more coordinated than 50% of all persons, is pretty coordinated.

I think that one would think it isn't possible speaks to how bad overall golf instruction is and has biased the general consensus.

So, is your assertion that some percentage of the 50% of all people can be scratch? Is it 1% or do you think the 0-5 range is more evenly distributed, like 8.33%?

In any case, you are stating that 50% of all people should be able to get to a 5 handicap, and I still think that sounds a little bit too optimistic. Only 13.3% of men who carry a handicap are 5 or less, and only 2% of women.

[MS256]

So, is your assertion that some percentage of the 50% of all people can be scratch? Is it 1% or do you think the 0-5 range is more evenly distributed, like 8.33%?

In any case, you are stating that 50% of all people should be able to get to a 5 handicap, and I still think that sounds a little bit too optimistic. Only 13.3% of men who carry a handicap are 5 or less, and only 2% of women.

50% of all people aren't coordinated enough to chew bubble gum and walk down a sidewalk at the same time.

Half of the other 50% are head-cases who will never reach their potential. The type that would rather hit the ball in the water 6 times in a row than to admit that maybe it's a little more than they can chew.

[nevets88]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nevets88

I respectfully disagree. An "average" person on the coordination skill, is not going to throw a 90 mph fastball, but is more coordinated than 50% of all persons, is pretty coordinated.

I think that one would think it isn't possible speaks to how bad overall golf instruction is and has biased the general consensus.

So, is your assertion that some percentage of the 50% of all people can be scratch? Is it 1% or do you think the 0-5 range is more evenly distributed, like 8.33%?

In any case, you are stating that 50% of all people should be able to get to a 5 handicap, and I still think that sounds a little bit too optimistic. Only 13.3% of men who carry a handicap are 5 or less, and only 2% of women.

0-5, no specific distribution just a range. And of course I'm no authority - this is just my opinion, you're entitled to yours, respectfully. Remember, this is a person doing sort of a Dan Plan, devoted exclusively to this, not working a full time job and is working with an effective instructor in year round sunny weather.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

So, is your assertion that some percentage of the 50% of all people can be scratch? Is it 1% or do you think the 0-5 range is more evenly distributed, like 8.33%?

In any case, you are stating that 50% of all people should be able to get to a 5 handicap, and I still think that sounds a little bit too optimistic. Only 13.3% of men who carry a handicap are 5 or less, and only 2% of women.

50% of all people aren't coordinated enough to chew bubble gum and walk down a sidewalk at the same time.

Half of the other 50% are head-cases who will never reach their potential. The type that would rather hit the ball in the water 6 times in a row than to admit that maybe it's a little more than they can chew.

Well, of course I'm assuming also that a person who is doing this is no dumb dumb and will work hard.

[Lihu]

0-5, no specific distribution just a range. And of course I'm no authority - this is just my opinion, you're entitled to yours, respectfully. Remember, this is a person doing sort of a Dan Plan, devoted exclusively to this, not working a full time job and is working with an effective instructor in year round sunny weather.

I don't actually have any opinion on this matter, I just suspect that yours is a little over optimistic based upon the data that I have seen.

Do you have some a priori way to back up your theory? I have to admit that it is an interesting hypothesis.

[nevets88]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nevets88

0-5, no specific distribution just a range. And of course I'm no authority - this is just my opinion, you're entitled to yours, respectfully. Remember, this is a person doing sort of a Dan Plan, devoted exclusively to this, not working a full time job and is working with an effective instructor in year round sunny weather.

I don't actually have any opinion on this matter, I just suspect that yours is a little over optimistic based upon the data that I have seen.

Do you have some a priori way to back up your theory? I have to admit that it is an interesting hypothesis.

That's it, it's just my opinion. I can't prove it and I'm not saying I'm right, it's just my gut feeling.

[Shorty]

Only 13.3% of men who carry a handicap are 5 or less,

Where does that statistic come from?

I doubt whether it would be 1%.