The Dan Plan - 10,000 Hours to Become a Pro Golfer (Dan McLaughlin)

[David in FL]

I just can't help thinking that at the very start of this whole thing he wasted a lot of time on some really redundant practice like hitting 1' putts for the first 100 hours, I mean come on man I think 2 hours is gonna give you pretty close to the same amount of benifit, how good can someone really get on 1' putts? I would have had him hitting lag putts from 15'-20' to start with to develop feel and overall confidence and I certainly would not have him doing only that for 100 hours while neglecting everything else, chipping and pitching would be on the start of this wole endeavour as well because lets be honest you have to be an all out wizard around the greens to play with the big boys. I think when it's all over this is gonna be one of his reasons for not achieving the goal.

I agree that the start was just silly, but I don't think that 100 hours, 1% of his total time, of silliness is going to be a factor. If he fails, all we need do is ask ourselves if adding another 100 hours would get him there. I suspect that the answer will be no.

[x129]

It wasn't just 100 hrs. He spent the first 1000 hours or so just doing putting, pitching and chipping. I think he would have been better off spending 250 of those hours on the full swing.  Ask your self what gives better results: 1 7 hour block of practice or 7 1 hour blocks of practice over 1 week? Time matters both in total number of hours and the time period those hours are over.

The other thing is that practicing 1 footers was just stupid. What he should have been practicing aiming the putter at the target, hitting the center of the face, and then distance control. At some point you need to crank out a lot of short putts for confidence but the idea of starting at 1 ft and moving back once you become a "pro" at the shorter distances isn't something that I think is an efficient use of time.

Is this the reason he isn't going to make it? I don't think so since I doubt these add up to more than a stroke or 2 and I expect him to be 4 or so  shots away from the pga level.

Originally Posted by David in FL

I agree that the start was just silly, but I don't think that 100 hours, 1% of his total time, of silliness is going to be a factor. If he fails, all we need do is ask ourselves if adding another 100 hours would get him there. I suspect that the answer will be no.

[RAZR]

Just looked at the website.  He is up past 3400 hours and his handicap is 5.8.  I think he realistically has a good chance to make it at the pace he is going but what I also think is that it's going to come down to (at least at first) whether or not he can perform under pressure.  It's a lot different hitting balls over and over again by yourself or with someone you're comfortable with but it's a whole different thing in environments and with people you are not familiar with.  He should be participating in some local tournaments or scrambles to get used to the audience factor.

-Scott

[David in FL]

It wasn't just 100 hrs. He spent the first 1000 hours or so just doing putting, pitching and chipping. I think he would have been better off spending 250 of those hours on the full swing.  Ask your self what gives better results: 1 7 hour block of practice or 7 1 hour blocks of practice over 1 week? Time matters both in total number of hours and the time period those hours are over. The other thing is that practicing 1 footers was just stupid. What he should have been practicing aiming the putter at the target, hitting the center of the face, and then distance control. At some point you need to crank out a lot of short putts for confidence but the idea of starting at 1 ft and moving back once you become a "pro" at the shorter distances isn't something that I think is an efficient use of time. Is this the reason he isn't going to make it? I don't think so since I doubt these add up to more than a stroke or 2 and I expect him to be 4 or so  shots away from the pga level.

I tend to agree, but my response was specifically directed to onesome's comment that the first 100 hours would be his downfall.....

[onesome]

No, I was only using that for an initial example, the point I was trying to make was a lot of his practice schedule was very "tunneled visioned" by thinking practicing small specifics of the golf game will not reap the goal.

[onesome]

No, I was only using that for an initial example, the point I was trying to make was a lot of his practice schedule was very "tunneled visioned" by thinking practicing small specifics of the golf game will not reap the goal.

[David in FL]

No, I was only using that for an initial example, the point I was trying to make was a lot of his practice schedule was very "tunneled visioned" by thinking practicing small specifics of the golf game will not reap the goal.

Agree

[Williamevanl]

Originally Posted by RAZR

Just looked at the website.  He is up past 3400 hours and his handicap is 5.8.  I think he realistically has a good chance to make it at the pace he is going but what I also think is that it's going to come down to (at least at first) whether or not he can perform under pressure.  It's a lot different hitting balls over and over again by yourself or with someone you're comfortable with but it's a whole different thing in environments and with people you are not familiar with.  He should be participating in some local tournaments or scrambles to get used to the audience factor.

-Scott

It's absolutely silly to think that a 5.8 handicap is somehow 1/3 of the way to professional. If he were a +4 now I'd say he was getting somewhere. Quickly getting down to the same handicap that every that other yahoo who has done this exact thing is not progress (see the rest of this thread). BTW he was a 6.1  six months ago and if you check GHIN his handicap now is 6.0 and his most recent score is 90.

I don't even think he'll ever make it past a 2 handicap.

[Williamevanl]

Originally Posted by Williamevanl

*Lovinitall, while your posts have been very good in this thread I'm not sure you understand the point that I am making.

btw, Dan:

"Any time I am playing these rounds I will also determine beforehand if it’s an on-course practice round (important to have rounds where you drop multiple balls from different locations and to learn shots) or a scoring round."

This happened four months after his handicap hadn't changed at all until the end where it went up .1 points. He referred to this time as a 'plan shift'.  Here's what happened to his handicap following this:

He is certainly picking and choosing  prior (he says) to playing if he is going to play for real or handicap. Given the pressure on him to show continual improvement I worry how far he will take this culling the best scores. My guess is that at minimum he is playing for score until the round goes to crap and then he is 'playing for practice' think triple on the first hole...

You responded to his ability to shoot near his handicap of 8.7 for the last couple of tournaments, he was able to do that. I think though as he finds ways to bring down his handicap, (like not recording scores when he is playing bad or doesn't feel like he will play well) that he won't be able to shoot near this new handicap.

My last prediction, is that Dan is going to start getting worse over the next couple of weeks/months. I expect him around a 7 soon.

got worse and 6.9 (so close...) This is of course just kind of bouncing around now and he's back to a 6. I'm sticking with my dismal prediction of a 4 handicap at 5000 hours but I'm becoming concerned.

[David in FL]

He needs to be playing a lot of competitive golf at this point. He seems to be struggling with the "pressure" of simply posting a decent score.....

[x129]

I wouldn't look at the week to week stuff. Handicaps will go up/down and stay the same even as you get better at golf. The questions is where he will be in next July (probably something like 5k hours). Will he be a "real" scratch type guy who can start showing up at US Open & US amateur type qualifying without totally embrassing (no he wouldn't be competive but shooting something like a 75 when the qualifiers shoot 67 would at least put him in the neighborhood)  himself or will be be a country club 6 guy who shoots 90s in tournaments? I think he still has a couple of long game strokes (he has only been hitting the driver for about a year) that will not be that hard but it isn't clear to me that he is a better putter/chipper now than he was 9 months ago.

Originally Posted by Williamevanl

got worse and 6.9 (so close...) This is of course just kind of bouncing around now and he's back to a 6. I'm sticking with my dismal prediction of a 4 handicap at 5000 hours but I'm becoming concerned.

[Williamevanl]

I had said that for a couple reasons when he hit 5.9. One it came right around the time that he started deciding score rounds vs fun rounds so I was predicting that his handicap to rebound back up AND to illustrate that he isn't just going to keep getting better (at some point).

Again, I don't understand how anyone has him at scratch at 5000 hours.

" Will he be a "real" scratch type guy who can start showing up at US Open & US amateur type qualifying without totally embrassing himself? "

?! Is there seriously any real chance of this 1400 hours from now?

[slodsm]

I really believe some people just can't play golf. Can you get better, yes but to actually play at the level he wants I don't think everyone can do no matter the amount of practice. I've played a LOT of sports, I was good at a lot of them, I spent 12 years in the Marine Corps, I have advanced fairly far in various hand to hand programs, what I do for a living requires a lot of strength, a lot of coordination, and a small amount of either fearlessness or ignorance (people see it differently) but I strongly doubt I'll ever see scratch, even single digits and I put in a LOT of work. Not 10,000 hours but I'm willing to bet I put in 10 rounds a month and 15-20 hours practice a month on the chipping/putting green. If I can post low 80's on my home course from the tips (CR 71/129) then I will be absolutely thrilled 5 years from now.

Practice will make him better but not tour better.

[Stretch]

I don't think Dan will ever get better than a legit two or three, but would be perfectly happy to be proved wrong, since I have formed pretty much the same opinion of my own potential.

[wadesworld]

Originally Posted by slodsm

I really believe some people just can't play golf. Can you get better, yes but to actually play at the level he wants I don't think everyone can do no matter the amount of practice. I've played a LOT of sports, I was good at a lot of them, I spent 12 years in the Marine Corps, I have advanced fairly far in various hand to hand programs, what I do for a living requires a lot of strength, a lot of coordination, and a small amount of either fearlessness or ignorance (people see it differently) but I strongly doubt I'll ever see scratch, even single digits and I put in a LOT of work. Not 10,000 hours but I'm willing to bet I put in 10 rounds a month and 15-20 hours practice a month on the chipping/putting green. If I can post low 80's on my home course from the tips (CR 71/129) then I will be absolutely thrilled 5 years from now.

Practice will make him better but not tour better.

I don't know that there are some people who can't do it, barring some physical ailment.

Golf is not a difficult physical game.  Is it really the case that your average pro golfer just has the absolutely right physical makeup and I don't?  Not likely.

I think the difference is at a minimum, two fold:  determination and coaching.  While Dan may be determined, his level of determination likely doesn't come close to those who have made it on the pro tour.  Ten thousand hours is likely a drop in the bucket compared to what most pros have put in.  Secondly, most people likely don't get near enough coaching, not the right coaching or most importantly, coaching in only one area.  Great pros often have great swing coaches, fitness coaches, course management coaches and mental coaches.

Could you take Dan, back him up 10 years, give him the right determination and coaches and get him to the PGA tour?  I suspect you could.  If so, why aren't more of us pros?  Because we lack the belief and determination.  It was either never our real dream, or we gave up on it somewhere along the way.  We played in some big amateur tournaments, turned in some 87's and determined we just didn't have what takes.  Meanwhile, the next future pro who was playing alongside us and also posted an 87, walked off the 18th green and went straight to the range, determined that if it took 10 more tries, he was going to win that tournament someday.  And he did, and then moved beyond it.

The tour and below is littered with players that have swings the equal of Rory or any other 20 players in the top 25.  But many of them never achieve much, because to be a great pro you have to get the whole package working at the highest level - not just your swing.

So no, I don't think Dan is going to achieve any pro success either.  But I don't think it's just because he doesn't have the magical physical makeup.

[Harmonious]

Originally Posted by wadesworld

Golf is not a difficult physical game.  Is it really the case that your average pro golfer just has the absolutely right physical makeup and I don't?  Not likely.

If so, why aren't more of us pros?  Because we lack the belief and determination.

Actually, golf is a VERY DIFFICULT physical game.  The hand-eye coordination required, and the need for repetition in the golf swing make it very difficult.  If it were so easy, why do athletes in other sports have so much difficulty adapting to it? True, you don't have to bench press 300 pounds, or run 100 meters in under 10 secornds, in order to be a good (as in scratch) golfer.  But there is relatively no room for error.  You have to play your foul balls.

The idea that all it takes is belief and determination is hogwash. It helps, but it won't get your swing on plane at 115 mph time after time after time, no matter how much you want it.

[slodsm]

Originally Posted by Harmonious

Actually, golf is a VERY DIFFICULT physical game.  The hand-eye coordination required, and the need for repetition in the golf swing make it very difficult.  If it were so easy, why do athletes in other sports have so much difficulty adapting to it? True, you don't have to bench press 300 pounds, or run 100 meters in under 10 secornds, in order to be a good (as in scratch) golfer.  But there is relatively no room for error.  You have to play your foul balls.

The idea that all it takes is belief and determination is hogwash. It helps, but it won't get your swing on plane at 115 mph time after time after time, no matter how much you want it.

Exactly what I'm saying. I am very coordinated and still don't believe I have the amount of small muscle control the repeat a swing to the nth degree over and over no matter how much I practice. Doesn't mean I'm not going to try over and over and over hahahaa, I just don't think I personally can do it. If it was about strength or speed alone I'd have no problems. I have benched in excess of 300 lbs when I was a gym rat and can still lift 40lbs over my body weight but strength alone isn't what it takes.

[wadesworld]

Originally Posted by Harmonious

Actually, golf is a VERY DIFFICULT physical game.  The hand-eye coordination required, and the need for repetition in the golf swing make it very difficult.  If it were so easy, why do athletes in other sports have so much difficulty adapting to it? True, you don't have to bench press 300 pounds, or run 100 meters in under 10 secornds, in order to be a good (as in scratch) golfer.  But there is relatively no room for error.  You have to play your foul balls.

The idea that all it takes is belief and determination is hogwash. It helps, but it won't get your swing on plane at 115 mph time after time after time, no matter how much you want it.

So anyone who fails at professional golf simply doesn't have the right physical makeup?

How about the scores of guys who have made it there before but then can't get back?  Did their physical makeup suddenly change and make them unable to make it?

Were Craig Stadler, Lee Trevino, Jim Furyk, or Emerson Darcy overflowing with those magical physical attributes?