Will Tiger capture 30+ majors?

[just hit it]

Originally Posted by motteler621

thinking retirement in the next few years,Tiger, the workaholic. sorry that made laugh a little. What else is he going to do??? He lives off competing against the best

He lives to win and dominate the field, once he has convinced himself that he cannot dominate the way he did he will retire.  He will not stick around to be part of the field.

[motteler621]

Originally Posted by just hit it

He lives to win and dominate the field, once he has convinced himself that he cannot dominate the way he did he will retire.  He will not stick around to be part of the field.

yea I dont see Tiger rolling over and convincing himself he's done, not for awhile

[RichF]

Quote:

He lives to win and dominate the field, once he has convinced himself that he cannot dominate the way he did he will retire.  He will not stick around to be part of the field.

From 2005:

" "I'll definitely quit the game earlier than people think. The only reason I would play is the occasional tournament if my son is good enough to be out there, and he chooses to play. That would be cool. But my foundation means much more than what I do out here.
When my best isn't good enough, I'm walking. You'll know when you're not able to produce any more. I don't lie. When I play well, I tell you guys. And I tell you when I haven't played well. I've won tournaments out there when I wasn't playing my best.
But if I play my best and don't win, there's no reason to be out here.''

[newtogolf]

Tiger said alot of things in 2005 that were inaccurate or untruthful.  Given he switched to Haney and Foley so they could modify his swing to save his knees and body I'd say he's planning to stick around awhile.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

Tiger said alot of things in 2005 that were inaccurate or untruthful.  Given he switched to Haney and Foley so they could modify his swing to save his knees and body I'd say he's planning to stick around awhile.

I don't think he will. I think he's done when he hits 19 or 20 and is no longer competitive. Or just the latter. I don't think he's going to be a hanger-on.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

Tiger said alot of things in 2005 that were inaccurate or untruthful.  Given he switched to Haney and Foley so they could modify his swing to save his knees and body I'd say he's planning to stick around awhile.

He switched to Haney because Harmon wanted to just do maintenance rather than another rebuild. I've read that it was Tiger who insisted on the "knee snap" and that "saving his knees and body" was nowhere on the list of reasons why Tiger dropped Harmon. That was from the parties involved, then Haney said other things later, speaking of not being truthful. Butch Harmon might not be a genius, but did any of his other top students (look at his resume - a lot of great players coached in his career) ever have knee problems attributed to Harmon's teaching methods?

[iacas]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

He switched to Haney because Harmon wanted to just do maintenance rather than another rebuild. I've read that it was Tiger who insisted on the "knee snap" and that "saving his knees and body" was nowhere on the list of reasons why Tiger dropped Harmon. That was from the parties involved, then Haney said other things later, speaking of not being truthful. Butch Harmon might not be a genius, but did any of his other top students (look at his resume - a lot of great players coached in his career) ever have knee problems attributed to Harmon's teaching methods?

No, but Butch Harmon doesn't actually do anything to change anyone's swings. They come out looking almost exactly the same as they did before. Butch is very much an "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" and the problem comes in when he thinks a swing that got someone to the PGA Tour ain't broke. He makes the tiniest of tweaks and just tries to talk up his players so they're confident.

Phil's swing looks no different now than before, really. Subtle changes, but he's still all over the map more than he probably could have been with a coach that would make actual changes.

It works for Butch, but not all the time... people leave him when they get stuck because Butch either can't or won't make changes to help them.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by iacas

No, but Butch Harmon doesn't actually do anything to change anyone's swings. They come out looking almost exactly the same as they did before. Butch is very much an "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" and the problem comes in when he thinks a swing that got someone to the PGA Tour ain't broke. He makes the tiniest of tweaks and just tries to talk up his players so they're confident.

Phil's swing looks no different now than before, really. Subtle changes, but he's still all over the map more than he probably could have been with a coach that would make actual changes.

It works for Butch, but not all the time... people leave him when they get stuck because Butch either can't or won't make changes to help them.

To go off topic for a moment, that sounds like the Mike Keenan, Scottie Bowman, or more likely Phil Jackson coaching style. Some coaches are their best when coaching players and teams already on the verge of greatness and some players need that type of coach at exactly that point in their career. Maybe not enough credit is given to Tiger's earlier coaches, and to be honest, to just simply Tiger Woods himself.

[jimmizu]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

I think Tiger will have a tough time reaching 20.  It seems the level of competition is greater now than it was when he dominated, and each of these top players has certain skills that offset Tigers and neutralize advantages he'd have at certain courses.  Guys like Donald, Watney and Kucher are better scorers, Bubba and DJ out drive him, Donald, Snedeker and Stricker out putt him.  His body is showing signs of break down and he's mentally not where he was before his marriage ended.   I don't think his career is over, and I'm pretty certain he will win a few more majors, but I can't see him getting close to 30.

This post reflects my thoughts exactly.

He's no longer physically at the top of the tour, the mental advantage over the other players is gone, his personal mental state is different (hey, just having children will do that!), and now he's having recurring knee problems. (Ask anyone with knee surgeries, it gets better but it's never back to before the injury.)

Maybe one or two more . . . 3? Who knows?

[newtogolf]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

He switched to Haney because Harmon wanted to just do maintenance rather than another rebuild. I've read that it was Tiger who insisted on the "knee snap" and that "saving his knees and body" was nowhere on the list of reasons why Tiger dropped Harmon. That was from the parties involved, then Haney said other things later, speaking of not being truthful. Butch Harmon might not be a genius, but did any of his other top students (look at his resume - a lot of great players coached in his career) ever have knee problems attributed to Harmon's teaching methods?

Haney changed his story later on (2009 I think) and stated that Tiger was concerned with his swing because he only had 20% of his ACL attached on his left knee.  He felt he  needed to change his swing to save his knee and body.  Haney probably didn't state this as a priority when Tiger was a client because he felt obligated to protect his clients private medical information.

I dont believe Harmon was ever blamed for Tigers swing which causes a hyperextension of the knee, he did that before Harmon ever coached him.  Harmon made other adjustments to his swing, but left that part of it alone because Tiger and he felt that's where a lot of his power was derived from.  He left Harmon, as Iacas stated because Tiger wanted to make significant changes to his swing and Harmon didn't feel it was necessary, which caused a rift between the two, and led to Tiger switching to Haney.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

Haney changed his story later on (2009 I think) and stated that Tiger was concerned with his swing because he only had 20% of his ACL attached on his left knee.  He felt he  needed to change his swing to save his knee and body.  Haney probably didn't state this as a priority when Tiger was a client because he felt obligated to protect his clients private medical information.

I dont believe Harmon was ever blamed for Tigers swing which causes a hyperextension of the knee, he did that before Harmon ever coached him.  Harmon made other adjustments to his swing, but left that part of it alone because Tiger and he felt that's where a lot of his power was derived from.  He left Harmon, as Iacas stated because Tiger wanted to make significant changes to his swing and Harmon didn't feel it was necessary, which caused a rift between the two, and led to Tiger switching to Haney.

People on this site have demonized Haney for the goofy swing changes he helped Tiger ingrain (it was a team effort there). Harmon is called to task for not wanting to radically change Tiger's swing away from one that had been very successful even though that's what Tiger wanted to do. They both might get too much credit and blame just like Foley does for the modest positive strides and setbacks Tiger's made/had this year.

[franky21]

The question itself is pretty crazy, 30 majors is just a very high number. He will pass Jack he could get 20 but 30 majors is just pushing it i think. I will not be putting my money on him winning 30 majors, i would on Tiger passing Jacks record.

[newtogolf]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

People on this site have demonized Haney for the goofy swing changes he helped Tiger ingrain (it was a team effort there). Harmon is called to task for not wanting to radically change Tiger's swing away from one that had been very successful even though that's what Tiger wanted to do. They both might get too much credit and blame just like Foley does for the modest positive strides and setbacks Tiger's made/had this year.

I wasn't demonizing Haney, nor giving Harmon any credit, just stating what I'd read from a few sources.  I guess I missed these posts you are referring to, and was just responding to those in this thread.  In the pieces I've read Haney seems to be in synch with what Harmon was doing, and in the early stages of his time with Tiger continued to work on much of what Harmon was.  Tiger had his own ideas on what his swing should be (possibly due to his knee injury) and got Haney to mess with things Harmon wouldn't.

I agree about the credit and blame, Tiger was a great golfer when he started with Harmon. If not for the serious illness of his coach prior to Harmon, he might not have ever sought out Harmon.

[Kieran123]

Originally Posted by motteler621

thinking retirement in the next few years,Tiger, the workaholic. sorry that made laugh a little. What else is he going to do??? He lives off competing against the best

"I am sure he thought he would of surpassed Jack by now and could be thinking about retirement in the next few years"

COULD.

He hasn't accomplished his goal yet.

He will stop when he either beats that record or feels like he is no longer competitive.

I am sure he thought he would of been done by his late 30's. It's Tiger, he has a lot of confidence in himself. So max, 40 years old before he retires. He has stated he won;t be going on the Champions tour in press conferences

[michaeljames92]

It's a shame he has this kind of attitude towards golf that guys like Nicklaus didn't have. I mean, what's wrong with when he's 50 having a few hits around the golf course for FUN. Look at the guys on the Champions Tour, and they're all pretty much good mates and enjoy their time as well as earning some money. Tiger just obviously wants to win everything, most guys on tour rarely, if ever win and to Tiger he just seems to get the shits on when he's not beating everyone. He obviously thinks there is no point playing the game if you can't win?

I love watching the guy play and am a massive fan, but damn he can be disappointing sometimes.

Originally Posted by Kieran123

He will stop when he either beats that record or feels like he is no longer competitive.

I am sure he thought he would of been done by his late 30's. It's Tiger, he has a lot of confidence in himself. So max, 40 years old before he retires. He has stated he won;t be going on the Champions tour in press conferences

[SouthernILGolfer]

It depends on how long it takes for him to get to 19, if he does it within the next 2-3 years, 30 prob is still out of the question.  Sam Sneads all time wins record is another thing that im sure Tiger wants to accomplish as well, he's 11 more overall wins away from tying that.    He's 35 now and his body is starting to break down.  Back, neck, achilles, i give him till he's 40 tops before he no longer is playing on the PGA tour.  At this point, theres a lot of doubt whether he can even win a tournament again but it seems he's getting very close.

[CalBoomer]

That was never a good bet. Right now, I wouldn't even bet on him tying Nicklaus. At their best, Nicklaus and Tiger were at a clearly higher level than their competitors in their ability to put four good rounds together, which is what it takes to win any tournament, let alone a major. Tiger is intermittently very good but no longer at that higher level, and his competitors are multiplying and getting better, any one of whom could have a hot weekend. Tiger would have to match Mickelson's total life achievement (four majors) just to tie Nicklaus. I just do not think that is going to happen. And, as I write this, Tiger has just dropped out of the Player's Championship after nine holes, allegedly because of a variety of physical ailments. And, as final kicker, could you ever imagine Ben Hogan or Jack Nicklaus going to someone like Sean Foley to rebuild their swings? Didn't think so.

[RoverThomas]

The original poster must have been delusional to make that bet of 30 majors. The situation is much less likely now as - Jimmizu has summed it up - its nothing to do with statistics any more because as most have noted his terrible swing is breaking his body down but of greater importance he's lost his mojo and 50 other golfers know they can beat him now. The Ryder Cup showed the Europeans are no longer afraid of him and young guns like Australian Jason Day have the self belief to beat him too. Its all over for Tiger - the original poster should now take a bet that he won't win another major.