Tiger Faces "Failed Legacy"

[zeg]

Isn't that one of Woods's stated reasons for making the change he's already begun?  I haven't paid close attention, but that's been my assumption.  If so, it's a good strategy to make the change and risk that you can't get back to form with the new swing than to blow it out and guarantee you're done before you're 40.  Now he just has to get himself healthy enough to be able to work on it for more than a few tournaments without a re-injury.

[bplewis24]

I believe when asked why he switched coaches from Harmon to Haney he referenced that his body wouldn't hold up swinging that way.

Brandon

[LankyLefty]

Maybe the flag flying KKK thing was a little off but Ty Cobb was associated with many KKK members and while It is likely for PR reasons that he was never officially a member he was a notoriously racist man and he was rumored to have been present at during at least one lynching and possibly another. He was quoted in several black newspapers as telling the media something to the effect of that he "Knew it was time to retire when a nigger catcher threw him out stealing second." That "Nigger Catcher" is in the hall of fame by the way and Is thought by some to have been one of the greatest 10 baseball players in history. He was fined $75 for assult of a black man and the reason he gave the judge was that the man was "Uppity" and when the media asks about it his response was "That's a small price for satisfaction."

Hes not the only one. Tug McGraw once carried around a piece of rope used to hang the body of a murdered black man around with him "for good luck". Of course you wont find to many accounts of this because at the time cobb was a famous and liked man and records of his transgressions are few. Most sources just call him a known or notorious racist and don't give details.

In any case thats beside the point.... Point is there are people who have gone down as heroes in sports despite being completely despicable as people. Tiger woods is no angel... but he wasnt that bad... he was just a freakishly horny man who decided over the hill pornstars and waitresses with missing teeth were more fun then his supermodel wife.

[Gioguy21]

yea and the way it's goin, if he gets back on the hoe train he'll prolly be back to winning majors...maybe even go back to haney...could you say he's...hank-erin for some major...tail?

[evan01]

Gentlemen and Ladies if you are out there, this has been undoubtedly  one of the most interesting threads I have read. I would like you to post your racial profile as it seems some have crossed the line in their tone to what, who, will, is  Mr. tiger . Absolutely a great golfer but as a human being he is  a robot built by his father and the media. The old golfers where real men with real life problems. This young man was warped in to his present position from the day he appeared on the Mike Douglas show. The man does not know how to be a normal person. His wife was a white trophy that he cared nothing about. Life is about real people with real lives, even  our own lives this why we defend the the greats of old . You cheat at golf you are a scum bag, fix your handicap , use the foot wedge you are no better. The man puts his legs into his jeans 1 leg at a time like you and me. I enjoy my Tuesday night golf with my 11 buddies and we don't cheat lie or boast. Just enjoy life golf and our friendship. Something Mr. Woods does not have a life!

[Harmonious]

Lanky Lefty, I wonder if you would be so enlightened had you been brought during Cobb's time.  We are all conditioned by our environment, and growing up in Georgia in the 1890's (less than 30 years after the Civil War)  was probably a little bit different than today, some 120 years later.  As you no doubt know, Harry Truman was also an early member of the KKK, as was Robert Byrd, senator from West Virginia.  With the same logic, you could  smear the entire executive and legislative branches of our government with your same broad brush.

It's very easy to look at history through modern-day glasses and make value judgements as to how people should have acted, or thought, back then.

[LankyLefty]

There is a difference between haviing an opinion and acting on it. People are entitled to their opinions no matter how racist they may be. People are not entitled to take those opinions out on other people as Ty Cobb did on many occasions.

My grandparents, now in their 90s, still view black people as some what ignorant lowly people and still will on occasion refer to them as negroes. They were raised in environment where racism was accepted but they don't go around spewing hatred to anyone who will listen, or physically assaulting people and never did. They have their beliefs and I disagree with them and we get along just fine. I don't care when your raised or in what situation, It may shape how you think but you are the only one in control of and responsible for your actions.

Truman was reluctantly inducted into the clan for political reasons but was never active. Robert Byrd I know much less about and while hes certainly racist but as far as I can tell he has never been accused of or linked to anything criminal he expresses his views politically, not with fists and weapons. Having 2-4 confirmed members of the KKK in the federal government is hardly grounds for smearing the entirety of government.

Ty Cobb was extreme even for his time in how far out of his way he went to make the whole world know how much he hated black people yet he is remembered as one of the greatest baseball players ever. That is really the only thing pertinent to the topic in this thread. You can be a complete ass and still go down in history as a legend of the endeavor in which you were great and that is where I think Tiger Woods will end up as time goes by.

[MrElculver2424]

Unfortunately, I agree mostly with this quote in the story:

"If Woods never wins another major championship ... his lasting legacy won't be that of the second-greatest winner, but of the first loser."

It's hard for me to say I agree with that being the huge Tiger fan that I am, but it's true. If he never wins another major, when people hear "Tiger Woods", the first thing they'll think of is how he was the greatest ever and then fell off the face of the Earth and never came back.

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"Woods may not face the same witch-hunt against his cause as those record-breakers, but there are certainly those who don't wish for him to pass Nicklaus. It has become such a widely held subplot within the game, though, that there may only be two logical conclusions."

-My opinion on this paragraph: the people who openly hate and put down Tiger because they don't want to see him break Jack's record...that group of people is so small compared to the people who do want him to pass Jack. Most of the people that hate Tiger now have hated him his entire career. There aren't many who went from fans to haters.

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"If Tiger passes Jack, he's a success. And if he doesn't, he's a failure."

-I strongly disagree with that. If he wins 15, 16, 17, or even 18 majors, he's had a successful career. That's just a really dumb comment.

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And I'll end my post with this comment, which is very good and 100% true:

"At 35, there is still plenty of time to conquer Nicklaus’ achievement."

[arogolf]

How can he possibly face a failed legacy regardless of what he does at this point?  What if his legacy becomes something completely different other than golf?  He is a global icon, only 35 years old, and on track to be a multi-billionare...

[MrElculver2424]

Originally Posted by arogolf

How can he possibly face a failed legacy regardless of what he does at this point?  What if his legacy becomes something completely different other than golf?  He is a global icon, only 35 years old, and on track to be a multi-billionare...

Yeah, I agree with you. There is no question that if he never catches Jack, people will always remember how he fell off the face of the Earth, but you wouldn't call his career a failure--only a complete moron would think that. 70+ tournament wins, 14 majors = successful career no matter what happens from here on out.

His legacy will always be great.

[The Recreational Golfer]

There's no doubt that history will have to explain why such a brilliant career came to an abrupt halt in late 2009. That explanation cannot avoid or diminish the contribution due to the revelations of his philandering. Yes, other athletes have and do step out on their wife, but if it eventually ruins the career of the #253-ranked golfer in the world, it's not a big deal. Ruining the career of someone who could have been the #1-ranked golfer of all time, it is a big deal.

I feel that will be how history portrays him -- what could have been if he had kept his pants on. Yes there are the injuries, but athletic careers cut short by injuries are like Dog bites man. Probable best career in history cut short by sexual escapades, there's a story.

[newtogolf]

I think you're reaching on the impact his infidelity has had on his career compared to injuries.  He's injured now, that's why he's not able to compete, it has nothing to do with his marital problems.  He did well at the Masters, and had he not injured himself he likely would have maintained some momentum and maybe even won a tournament by now.  Let's also not forget he's working with a new coach and in the final stage of a swing change.  I don't argue there's some residual damage from having his personal failures published for all to read about, but his issues now are health and finalizing his swing changes.

Originally Posted by The Recreational Golfer

I feel that will be how history portrays him -- what could have been if he had kept his pants on. Yes there are the injuries, but athletic careers cut short by injuries are like Dog bites man. Probable best career in history cut short by sexual escapades, there's a story.

[The Recreational Golfer]

Originally Posted by LankyLefty

Maybe the flag flying KKK thing was a little off but Ty Cobb was associated with many KKK members and while It is likely for PR reasons that he was never officially a member he was a notoriously racist man and he was rumored to have been present at during at least one lynching and possibly another. He was quoted in several black newspapers as telling the media something to the effect of that he "Knew it was time to retire when a nigger catcher threw him out stealing second." That "Nigger Catcher" is in the hall of fame by the way and Is thought by some to have been one of the greatest 10 baseball players in history. He was fined $75 for assult of a black man and the reason he gave the judge was that the man was "Uppity" and when the media asks about it his response was "That's a small price for satisfaction."

In his 2005 biography of Cobb, Richard Bak discusses the suspicion that Cobb might have been a member of the Ku Klux Klan, but says, “Certainly no evidence exists that Cobb ever belonged to the Klan, just speculation fueled by his demonstrated hostility.”

Cobb refused to play against black ball players, though he was hardly alone in that regard.

What is the catcher's name who threw him out? Bak says it was Bruce Petway, and he's not in the HOF.

[Harmonious]

Originally Posted by The Recreational Golfer

In his 2005 biography of Cobb, Richard Bak discusses the suspicion that Cobb might have been a member of the Ku Klux Klan, but says, “Certainly no evidence exists that Cobb ever belonged to the Klan, just speculation fueled by his demonstrated hostility.”

Cobb refused to play against black ball players, though he was hardly alone in that regard.

What is the catcher's name who threw him out? Bak says it was Bruce Petway, and he's not in the HOF.

Cobb did play on a barnstorming tour in 1910 in Cuba, against Cuban players joined by some Negro League stars. He was thrown out once by Petway, and was struck out once by black pitcher Jose Mendez, although he hit .370 in five games.  For a full review of Cobb's past, warts and all, here is an interesting article written by Bill Burgess at BaseballGuru.com: http://baseballguru.com/bburgess/analysisbburgess02.html

[bigoak]

Tiger Woods has more genetic material of Asian derivation than of African.  His genotype if not a black man but phenotype may be interpreted as black.  I will continue to ignore the drama and suspense which belongs in a fictional novel.  If he returns to form and wins out; fine! "what a man"  If he never returns to form and never beats Niclaus' record;Fine!  "What a man"   He had a hell of a run.  If he wins again, it may not be so dramatic.  The problem is that the winnie American boys will pee themselves if he makes a run.  The European boys; no so.  The key to breaking jack's record is to get the Rules Committee to ban the Europeans from competing.

[LankyLefty]

The catcher I was speaking of was the late great Josh Gibson.

The incident I was speaking of was at a Hall of Fame game near the end, or perhaps slightly after, of both men's careers. Though I cannot dig it up right now, the account of what happened at the game was given in an interview done on NPR of Buck Oneil.

And while you may be right that Ty Cobb was hardly the only overtly racist ballplayer of the time... somehow i doubt Tiger Woods is the only perverted cheating husband on tour.

[Gioguy21]

to those still fighting the race war in this thread, i advise you to watch the racial draft episode of chappelle show. case solved, move on.