Tiger the Dream Crusher...

[senorchipotle]

Just watched the fairly intimate interview of Ernie Els on the GC, and it seems as though he held a bit of animosity towards Tiger. When you think about it, coming in second to Tiger by a total of 22 strokes in two majors would probably be pretty demoralizing. Which makes me wonder, how many guys out there feel this way toward him?

Sure, watching Tiger blow away the competition over the years has brought millions of people to the sport, raised purses for the pro's, among many other things; but rarely do we think about what his dominance has done to the psyches of his fellow competitors.

I wonder if Jack's peers felt the same about him? And to a lesser extent, Hogan, Nelson, etc.

[MEfree]

Didn't see the interview, but understand what you are saying...while all the Pros I've seen interviewed have been thankful for the way Tiger's presences/dominance has helped to increase the purses, there must be many guys out there who must have some sub-conscience thoughts about what if Tiger hadn't been so damn good- winning the PGA in 2000 might have changed Bob May's career and I am sure that some part of Phil would have liked to have been #1 (not that he can't still be).

[Gioguy21]

Tiger Woods E-True Hollywood Story:
Child Inspiration, Demoralizer, Womenizer, Golf God

[MiniBlueDragon]

One of my family members is the best pool player I've ever met and even though I used to play on a premier league team here in the UK and am pretty good myself I've never beaten him. Ever!

The owness is therefore on me to improve my game and try to beat him, not to throw my toys out of the pram and get annoyed with him because he's better and it's "not fair". It's not his fault he's a great player and I have just as much opportunity to get good as he does, even if it takes longer to do so.

[sonicblue]

Sorry, Dragon, can't resist: "onus" ;-)

[Gioguy21]

it's like playin football against bill belicheck...'i don't run up the score, it's not my job to stop my offense.'

[newtogolf]

i can see both sides, from an objective point of view the "To be the best you have to beat the best" mentality works.  Putting myself in their shoes it has to be tough not to wonder how much more money you'd have won and fame you'd have achieved if Tiger wasn't playing his best while you were.

[Bigtank]

I think its interesting that two of the most talented golfers ever, Ernie and Phil, both overshadowed by Tiger.  I believe Phil and Ernie were more physically talented, however Tiger WAS the most mentally dominate athlete ever.  Both of these guys psyche was beaten like a drum on numerous occasions by Tiger.  Now Tiger seems to be Psychologist’s dream and all these others are coming back to the top.

I think if Tiger was his old self, we probably would not know who Martin Kaymer, or Graeme McDowell was and Luke Donald’s claim would be that he won the 1999 individual NCAA championship.

[deasy55]

Originally Posted by Bigtank

I think its interesting that two of the most talented golfers ever, Ernie and Phil, both overshadowed by Tiger.  I believe Phil and Ernie were more physically talented, however Tiger WAS the most mentally dominate athlete ever.  Both of these guys psyche was beaten like a drum on numerous occasions by Tiger.  Now Tiger seems to be Psychologist’s dream and all these others are coming back to the top.

I think if Tiger was his old self, we probably would not know who Martin Kaymer, or Graeme McDowell was and Luke Donald’s claim would be that he won the 1999 individual NCAA championship.

Another anti European I see. They seem to be popping up all over the place lately

[MEfree]

Looking at it another way, Tiger has ONLY won about 26% of the events he has entered...that means the other guys won 70+% of the events...even in years where his win % was higher, he never played that full a schedule so there were wins to go around.  I imagine that most of the guys who ever made it to the top 50 ( or even lower ) finished ahead of Tiger in at least 1 event they both play.

Still agree that guys like Els and Phil got somewhat over-shadowed with regards to the non-golfing general public, but I think golf fans know how good they are/were.  Had Tiger not been playing, the non-golfing general public would have probably paid even less attention...

[boogielicious]

I have heard and read the Ernie is pretty good friends with Tiger, so the disappointment may not be animosity.  Every generation has a dominant player.  It doesn't detract from what Ernie has accomplished.  Tiger beat him by 15 at Pebble, but everyone else was many strokes behind Ernie as well.

It happens in every sport.  The Celtics and Lakers have one 34 championships, more than half since 1958.

[Bigtank]

Originally Posted by deasy55

Another anti European I see. They seem to be popping up all over the place lately

Obviously you are Anti-American.....

See how stupid that sounds!  I was merely pointing out that some lesser known players have had an opportunity to come to the forefront due to Tiger's absence.  I could have used Stricker, Kuchar, Casey, or Mark Wilson just as easy.  I simply used them because they are the hot topic players.

It’s like the European fans have a self confidence issue or a Napoleonic complex; they think that everyone is trying to attack the "European".  The European tour is a good golf tour too!  Its ok...no one is picking on the European born players, I mean 8 of the top 20 are European born and 5 of those are actual products of European tour.  It’s ok, you are not the little brother!

[deasy55]

Originally Posted by Bigtank

Obviously you are Anti-American.....

See how stupid that sounds!  I was merely pointing out that some lesser known players have had an opportunity to come to the forefront due to Tiger's absence.  I could have used Stricker, Kuchar, Casey, or Mark Wilson just as easy.  I simply used them because they are the hot topic players.

It’s like the European fans have a self confidence issue or a Napoleonic complex; they think that everyone is trying to attack the "European".  The European tour is a good golf tour too!  Its ok...no one is picking on the European born players, I mean 8 of the top 20 are European born and 5 of those are actual products of European tour.  It’s ok, you are not the little brother!

This response just further proved my point really.

And " I think if Tiger was his old self, we probably would not know who Martin Kaymer, or Graeme McDowell was and Luke Donald’s claim would be that he won the 1999 individual NCAA championship. "? All these players were well known when Tiger was winning all round him in 06-08.

[clubchamp]

Originally Posted by deasy55

This response just further proved my point really.

And "I think if Tiger was his old self, we probably would not know who Martin Kaymer, or Graeme McDowell was and Luke Donald’s claim would be that he won the 1999 individual NCAA championship. "? All these players were well known when Tiger was winning all round him in 06-08.

I'm not trying to get into any argument but I had no idea who McDowell was until he won the US open and didn't know Kaymer until last year. So saying they were all well known might be true for people in Europe but they weren't very well known in America.

[deasy55]

Originally Posted by clubchamp

I'm not trying to get into any argument but I had no idea who McDowell was until he won the US open and didn't know Kaymer until last year. So saying they were all well known might be true for people in Europe but they weren't very well known in America.

That's actually shocking that you didn't know them McDowell was in the 2008 Ryder Cup team and had played in 18 majors prior to his US Open win.....not exactly a complete unknown. And Kaymer was as high as number 10 in the world 2 years ago. Not exactly an unknown either.

[brightonrock]

Quote:

I'm not trying to get into any argument but I had no idea who McDowell was until he won the US open and didn't know Kaymer until last year. So saying they were all well known might be true for people in Europe but they weren't very well known in America.

That's shocking on your part I'm afraid. McDowell was ranked 37 the week he won the US Open last year. And going into the US PGA Kaymer was ranked 13. I don't pay religious attention to the rankings but I reckon I could name off the top of my head a minimum of 2/3rds of the top 100, let alone the top 30 or 40 players in the world. I'm not pitching into a US v Europe argument either but saying they were unknown because you hadn't heard of them is like me saying I have no idea who Matt Kuchar is. He hasn't won an major but it doesn't make him a wildcard.

[uttexas]

Ernie's nickname may be "The Big Easy", but I suspect one of his goals was to surpass Gary Player's majors records. Ernie, just as almost all professional athletes, has extraordinary desire to beat his opponents; he doesn't have the single minded ruthlessness that Tiger and other super dominant athletes display. Els had/has the talent to dominate, but after marriage and children, he appeared to have slacked off on his condition and then suffered the unfortunate knee injury.

[Bigtank]

Originally Posted by deasy55

This response just further proved my point really.

And "I think if Tiger was his old self, we probably would not know who Martin Kaymer, or Graeme McDowell was and Luke Donald’s claim would be that he won the 1999 individual NCAA championship. "? All these players were well known when Tiger was winning all round him in 06-08.

I beg to differ!  For the average golf fan, American or European, most had no clue who McDowell or Kaymer was.  Most of the individuals on this forum are not your average golf fans, so I would expect them to know these guys.  I knew who Luke Donald was because I played college golf against him, and was present at Hazeltine in '99 when he won...even then he was a bit of a unknown the favored golfers were Matt Kuchar, Bryce Molder, David Gossett, Jonathan Byrd or Lucas Glover.

I am also familiar with McDowell as early as 2001 when he won the Haskin's award and helped win the Walker cup that year in my home state.

Kaymer was very unknown until 2008, with his first European win, but still virtually unknown on a global stage.

As much as I am a "stupid American" the European tour was very much the lesser tour and the global public didn't give it much attention, with Tiger on the PGA.