Why have I always been told to work most on my short game?

[hero12]

If you're on a course where driving accuracy isn't important (no trees, easy shots to the green from the rough), then good approach shots will suit you fine.  If you are at a course with a lot of trees and miss the fairway by even 5 yards, you may have to punch to 15 yds short or left.  If you always drive the ball in the middle and always hit your approach shots on, then good for you, I'll keep working on my short game.

[Leftygolfer]

You don't hit greens without driving the ball well.  It doesn't matter what kind of course it is.  It is imposssble to hit greens on a decent course without driving it well.  That might not be hitting 10/14 fairways, but it is putting it in possition to hit the green after almost every drive.

GIR is more than just how many greens.  It is hugely influenced by how far, straight, and consistant you drive the ball.

[max power]

Wisdom.  There is always the occasional round on TV where a pro drives the ball poorly but still hits a lot of greens-but even for top tier pros it's rare.  For the rest of us controlled, accurate, and relatively powerful shots off the tee are essential for hitting greens.

Originally Posted by Leftygolfer

You don't hit greens without driving the ball well.  It doesn't matter what kind of course it is.  It is imposssble to hit greens on a decent course without driving it well.  That might not be hitting 10/14 fairways, but it is putting it in possition to hit the green after almost every drive.

GIR is more than just how many greens.  It is hugely influenced by how far, straight, and consistant you drive the ball.

[iacas]

Okay... Lots said, so I want to share my take on a few things said.

Originally Posted by Leftygolfer

Erik,  I didn't get your point at first but now I do. The short game is a band aid for bad shots. You can save a bunch of shots around the green but if you want to be consistant you have to hit greens.

That's a good way to put it. I agree. The short game will help you save par when you miss a green. It will rarely be responsible for birdies (except when you hit it near the green on par fives - and even then I could make the case that your long game plays a larger factor in that - by allowing you to get near the green in two).

This simple fact alone speaks to the idea why a lower handicapper will see more improvement in his scoring by working on his full swing stuff (he needs to be putting for birdie, not chipping to save par) and why the high handicapper will see some bump in scoring by working on his short game... but realistically, only from about a 27 to a 22 or 24 handicap.

Originally Posted by Leftygolfer

So (I think I'm about the exact skill level your referring to) for me to go from a 12ish to a 6, I've got to hit the ball better. The horrid shots will dissappear, the great ones will show its face more, and the acceptable ones will be the norm. Geez I wish it was that easy. Long game improvement is hard.

I would guess that if you were handicapped separately, your short game handicap might be a 10 and your long game handicap might be a 14. The lower you go in handicap, the more it tends to be that way. There are exceptions, of course, and the 27 handicapper is usually about a 27 at each, for example, so he can get to an 18 short game and stay a 27 long game and thus "improve" to about a 23 handicap overall... but that 27 is still weighing him down.

Originally Posted by bunkerputt

Phil Mickelson shot a 74 in the first round of the US open and only hit 35% fairways and 44% greens.  That's pretty impressive.  It could easily have been an 80 if he didn't have a short game.  That's why.  If you are a ballstriking machine and don't miss one fairway or green in 10 years like some nuts claim to be regardless of how your body is behaving on that day, go ahead.  Do whatever you want to, pro.

Let's be cautious about using one round of golf. I don't know how many times he putted from the fringes or had straight-forward pitches and chips. I've had rounds where I hit six greens and shoot par because I'm basically really, really close to hitting 16 greens.

Plus, Phil shot 74. That's not a great example for "short game is the way to go." If Phil had hit more greens he'd have perhaps broken par like he should have...

Originally Posted by bunkerputt

The claim behind practice time is that you want to spend the most time practicing the shots you will have most.  If 60% of your shots are putts, you want to spend 60% of your time on putting.

As you said, it's more complex than that. I'll go so far as to say it's garbage.

I'll "prove" this by taking it to an extreme. How many of the putts the average guy who shoots 80 have that are considered tap-ins? 10 per round? Probably around that many. So this person should practice tap-ins 12.5% of the time? No. That'd be ludicrous. I literally mean tap-ins... two feet and in.

Of course not. 60% is way, way too much time to practice your short game. Why? Because it's so much simpler . Putting isn't nearly as hard as the full swing. Pitching and chipping are relatively simple and straight-forward (when done properly). So spend a little time working on them, then work on your full swing stuff because it's more complex.

Your reasons were good too. Equivalent putters, but "total putts" stat is really misleading.

Originally Posted by x129

Here is an article I came across a while back. Basically they take a 14 handicapper and the club pro off the course to play 9 holes. The club pro plays the same shot as the amateur from a hundred yards in. Over those 9 holes, the pro is 4 shots better due to the short game.  To put it another way, this amateur could go from a 14 to  6 or so if he had a better short game.

Yes, and to get to scratch or a + handicap he'd need to hit more greens to begin with.

Originally Posted by Bryan SD2

Simple.... your short game is invovled on EVERY HOLE.

Your Driver is not part of every hole. Neither is the short irons, or mid irons, or long irons. What's so hard to understand???  Practice the short game. From full wedges all the way down to 3 foot putts. You'll never break 80 if you don't.

Your full swing is involved on every hole too. What are you talking about? A "perfect" round of golf at even par includes just as many full swings as putts.

Originally Posted by McKee

If a beginner golfer needs to learn to play well enough to not be completely embarrassed in front of their boss then I can understand the need to spend the majority of time practicing the long game.  As far as score goes, the short game is what gets the ball into the hole. To choose between  two blanket statements regarding "what should be practiced more, the short game or the long game?", it really depends on the situation.  Unless you are a dribbler, more often then not it is the short game that will lower your scores.

MoneyBall (for golf) disagrees with you.

Would you rather have a great short game and miss 18 greens in regulation or be a decent but not great putter and hit 18 greens in regulation?

Originally Posted by McKee

According to Pelz, 80 percent of a golfer's handicap is determined by what happens within 100 yards of the green.

And as a short game teacher exclusively, there's no possible way Dave Pelz cooked those numbers a little.... right?

How many times when course records are shot or pros shoot really low rounds are they relying heavily on their short games? Virtually never. They're hitting the ball in play and sticking it close. They make the occasional long putt or chip in once. But 14-18 times they're putting the ball close to the flag with their long game.

Originally Posted by zeg

Why?  Because it depends on how good the particular golfer is at that skill, not just how important it is to be good at it.  Do I need to work on my short game?  Without knowing how good I am now and how much I've worked on it to get there, you simply have no way to know how much the next hour I spend is going to improve my results.

Yep. That's what I was getting at with the two handicaps.

The higher the handicap, the easier it is to drop them. It's usually easier to drop the short-game handicap, too, with less work... but the lower you go the less likely that is. Lots of 3 handicappers have the short game of a 1 but the long game of a 5. And lots of higher handicappers have similarly goofy balances... rarely do you find the 18 handicapper who hits the ball like a 12 handicapper until you get near the green where they hit it like a 25... know what I mean? It's more often the other way around.

Originally Posted by Leftygolfer

GIR is more than just how many greens.  It is hugely influenced by how far, straight, and consistant you drive the ball.

Yep.

At the end of the day, folks, there's a reason GIR is the single biggest determinant of your score.

[McKee]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iacas

Would you rather have a great short game and miss 18 greens in regulation or be a decent but not great putter and hit 18 greens in regulation?

For me, a great short game, no question.  And by short game I mean everything inside 100 yards.  In your scenario I would say missing 14 GIR would be fair, at least give me the par fives? I am a short game fan for two reasons - it requires so much mental steadiness to execute delicate shots under pressure (something I want), and it will be there for you when you are old and stiff.  As a kid I could hit fairways and greens all day then miss every three footer.  It was a really sad case of anxiety on those "easy" shots.  Now I look forward to playing under pressure, I can make those little shots, and all thanks to working on my short game.  Whatever, apples and oranges.

Quote:

And as a short game teacher exclusively, there's no possible way Dave Pelz cooked those numbers a little.... right?

I don't know what he is cooking but it smells pretty good to me.  I am thinking about every 10 handicap golfer I know and they are all pretty good ball strikers.  I can easily imagine them losing 2 shots due to serious long game errors and 8 shots to mistakes inside 100 yards - chunks, blades, three-putts, and an overall lack of touch.  These are also guys whose bodies will not allow them to strike the ball much better without some serious physical training.  This is another factor to throw into the equation - do they need to hit balls or do they need to get a personal trainer?  Some people just hit a physical wall with ball striking and the only way to shave strokes would be to work on the short stuff.

But I am not sure that everyone here agrees that the definition of short game is everything inside of 100 yards.  Maybe that is why Dave Pelz calls it the scoring game.

[ochmude]

This discussion has focused on which part of the game is more important to be good at.  However, another consideration, at least for high handicappers such as myself, is which part of the game is more important to not be absolutely awful at.  It's been my experience that being awful with irons still results in moving the ball forward(ish), just maybe not straight forward not getting much height or distance.  If you just whack away at the ball with a fairway wood and advance it only 50 yards at a time, you're still going to make forward progress.  Being awful with chipping and putting, though, can quickly lead to an infinite loop of back-and-forth chips and putts across the green.  I vividly remember one par 5 where I got into chipping range in 6 then converted that 5 into a 14 after blading and duffing chips, then overshooting putts by a dozen feet or more each time.  Finally I just picked up...and threw my ball into the woods.

Basically, screwing up your ball striking can lead to a double or triple bogey.  Screwing up your chipping and putting can lead to double digit numbers.

[Paradox]

Originally Posted by ochmude

This discussion has focused on which part of the game is more important to be good at.  However, another consideration, at least for high handicappers such as myself, is which part of the game is more important to not be absolutely awful at.  It's been my experience that being awful with irons still results in moving the ball forward(ish), just maybe not straight forward not getting much height or distance.  If you just whack away at the ball with a fairway wood and advance it only 50 yards at a time, you're still going to make forward progress.  Being awful with chipping and putting, though, can quickly lead to an infinite loop of back-and-forth chips and putts across the green.  I vividly remember one par 5 where I got into chipping range in 6 then converted that 5 into a 14 after blading and duffing chips, then overshooting putts by a dozen feet or more each time.  Finally I just picked up...and threw my ball into the woods.

Basically, screwing up your ball striking can lead to a double or triple bogey.  Screwing up your chipping and putting can lead to double digit numbers.

I guess I may just look at it differently but when I see people use that as an example..I just think to myself "that isn't just a technique thing, its someone who's absolutely not willing to learn from their mistakes while playing"  If anyone who is out on a course can't at least get on the green with two chips and then get a putter in their hands and THEN not keep knocking the ball past the hole..they just don't need to be playing golf at the moment.

Its easy to pick extremes to make a case but the reality is that if your long game is terrible, you're gonna be hitting chips and pitches from some place no one should be hitting them from.  Being good doesn't mean a thing if you have to hit a shot phil mickelson wouldn't even try in order to have a shot at hitting the green.  One part of the game cannot be singled out but I'm willing to bet that if you get ANY golfer hitting it straight and proper distances....they will shoot a much lower score than if you left their full swing alone and worked on the short game.

[max power]

Originally Posted by Paradox

Its easy to pick extremes to make a case but the reality is that if your long game is terrible, you're gonna be hitting chips and pitches from some place no one should be hitting them from.  Being good doesn't mean a thing if you have to hit a shot phil mickelson wouldn't even try in order to have a shot at hitting the green.  One part of the game cannot be singled out but I'm willing to bet that if you get ANY golfer hitting it straight and proper distances....they will shoot a much lower score than if you left their full swing alone and worked on the short game.

Agree 100%.  I've never, never, never ever seen a golfer who was decent off the tee and on approach shots who just couldn't chip or putt.  As iacas stated, the long game is harder, the short game is simpler.  It's much easier to build a decent short game, and it also follows naturally from being able to make a proper full swing.  These internet hypotheticals and extreme examples of good long game horrible short game are exactly that-hypothetical.  At a certain point it does become time to put some more focus on the short game, probably when you start breaking 80 on a regular basis, or no longer lose any shots off the tee or on longer approach shots.

[x129]

If you hit the ball 50 yards at time you are looking at an 8 on a 400 yard par 4 which gets you to double digits in a hurry. And that is before one of those 50 yard hits goes right into the woods. .  The lost balls are the more realistic way of how the long game gets you those 8+9s.

Originally Posted by ochmude

This discussion has focused on which part of the game is more important to be good at.  However, another consideration, at least for high handicappers such as myself, is which part of the game is more important to not be absolutely awful at.  It's been my experience that being awful with irons still results in moving the ball forward(ish), just maybe not straight forward not getting much height or distance.  If you just whack away at the ball with a fairway wood and advance it only 50 yards at a time, you're still going to make forward progress.  Being awful with chipping and putting, though, can quickly lead to an infinite loop of back-and-forth chips and putts across the green.  I vividly remember one par 5 where I got into chipping range in 6 then converted that 5 into a 14 after blading and duffing chips, then overshooting putts by a dozen feet or more each time.  Finally I just picked up...and threw my ball into the woods.

Basically, screwing up your ball striking can lead to a double or triple bogey.  Screwing up your chipping and putting can lead to double digit numbers.

[TourSpoon]

I keep reading this thread and keep coming back to the simple fact that if you want to be good you just have to get the ball into the hole in as few strokes as you can. It seems pointless to debate if a wasted stroke anywhere is more or less valuable than a stroke somewhere else. Making putts, whether for birdie, to save par, or whatever is how you score. Sure you can go spend your time hitting 3 irons or you can develop a game plan of practice that gets more accurate the closer you get to the green. The most accurate measure of your ability is your index and the lower you get it the better you will be in all aspects of the game, including course management and focus. I know that this is putting the cart before the horse but how do you think a person gets there? Curtis Strange won a US Open while finding nine bunkers in the final round, but you better believe that he needed all the tools to get to that final round. It's just when the ball striking was off, it was short game to the rescue to keep from dropping shots. In the end, each stroke counts as one no matter how you add them. One thing not mentioned is mental toughness and course management. The lower caps have developed both and we all know that a lapse in concentration or a poor decision can be devastating. When a pro needs to hit a fairway they don't always hit the driver, but we all know guys that could shoot record rounds by using some strategy and less ego. Again, put the ball in the hole. I know guys that don't have pretty swings, they don't hit it straight but they can score. So when I start playing swing they are playing golf and taking my money. Put the ball in the hole!

[iacas]

Originally Posted by TourSpoon

I keep reading this thread and keep coming back to the simple fact that if you want to be good you just have to get the ball into the hole in as few strokes as you can. It seems pointless to debate if a wasted stroke anywhere is more or less valuable than a stroke somewhere else. Making putts, whether for birdie, to save par, or whatever is how you score.

Thing is, there's basically a limit to how good you can get as a putter. Practice will not get you to the point where you're making 50% of your 20 foot putts. It's simply not going to happen.

Again: GIR is the single biggest determinant of your final score.

[TourSpoon]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TourSpoon

I keep reading this thread and keep coming back to the simple fact that if you want to be good you just have to get the ball into the hole in as few strokes as you can. It seems pointless to debate if a wasted stroke anywhere is more or less valuable than a stroke somewhere else. Making putts, whether for birdie, to save par, or whatever is how you score.

Thing is, there's basically a limit to how good you can get as a putter. Practice will not get you to the point where you're making 50% of your 20 foot putts. It's simply not going to happen.

Again: GIR is the single biggest determinant of your final score.

There is a limit to how good you can get as a putter, but there is almost no limit to how bad you can be either. To score you have to hole some putts sooner or later. To save par you have to hole some putts. GIR, coupled with a decent first putt distance, is key along with the ability to get up and down when needed more times than not because there is a limit to how many greens you will hit on average no matter how hard you practice. I just tire of the hypothetical posts of "well if it takes you ten to get to the green"... If that is the case then maybe you should try table tennis. It's like saying if you get good enough with your irons you can hit it close enough to never have to practice putting outside of ten feet. It will never happen. I know that my best rounds are produced by my ability to hit greens first. That I will not argue with. I frequently use the example that if you can hit 9 greens and then get u/d almost half the time you are looking at a 77. Through in a couple of birdies and you are playing to 3 or 4 cap which is not too shabby. See it's an easy game. Lol.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by TourSpoon

There is a limit to how good you can get as a putter, but there is almost no limit to how bad you can be either. To score you have to hole some putts sooner or later.

And I know 14 handicappers that "hole some putts." Everyone in the world is closer to being a "how good you can get as a putter" than "how bad you can be as a putter". Practicing your putting has very clearly understood limits for potential gain. It's the law of diminishing returns. Practicing your putting for more than 30 minutes per month, even, and you're going to get less out of the last second 30 minutes than you did the first 30 minutes, often significantly less.

Originally Posted by TourSpoon

To save par you have to hole some putts. GIR, coupled with a decent first putt distance, is key along with the ability to get up and down when needed more times than not because there is a limit to how many greens you will hit on average no matter how hard you practice.

And again, you're not going to hole 50% of your 20 footers, so practicing your putting has almost nothing to do with that. Hit it closer to the hole. If I had to practice putting or chipping/pitching only, I'd spend 10% of the time on putting and 90% of the time pitching/chipping. That's part of "hit it closer to the hole" too... putting is the last thing in the chain to lowering scores. Full swing is first, short game (pitching/chipping) is second. Putting is last.

For the average guy - and everyone's different, so this is a sweeping generalization - I'd spend 65% of my time on the full swing, 30% around the greens pitching and chipping, and 5% putting with the understanding that each of those segments is dedicated practice, not just "I'm hitting 50 balls with my driver and not really thinking about anything". I mean good, honest, dedicated practice with goals, drills, etc. If you're just gonna beat balls, then you're almost better off skipping the range entirely, because at least short game/putting stuff has a built-in "goal" (the hole).

Pitching and chipping are relatively simple. Putting even more so. They take far less time to become proficient at than the full swing.

To use my handicap metaphor again, if someone comes to me with a 9 handicap for both his full swing and short game, I can drop him to a "short game handicap" of 5 in an hour or less. Becoming a "5 handicap" with his full swing will take a fair amount more time.

You're a 5.2 according to your profile. You can practice putting four hours a day and in a month you're still going to be a 5.2 or in the high 4s. And in a year you'll still be a 5.2 or a 4.x. Or higher, if practicing your putting so much takes away time from practicing other parts of your game, particularly the full swing.

Originally Posted by TourSpoon

I just tire of the hypothetical posts of "well if it takes you ten to get to the green"... If that is the case then maybe you should try table tennis. It's like saying if you get good enough with your irons you can hit it close enough to never have to practice putting outside of ten feet. It will never happen.

The fundamentals or commonalities of putting don't change inside of 10 feet and outside of 10 feet. You still need to start the ball on line, read the putt accurately, and have good pace. If you're spending a lot of your time "practicing" 40 foot putts, I've gotta ask you to what end? You're not going to have any real impact on your "make percentage" from that range. And if you have to force your "feel" so much then you're not really using "feel" properly. Every 40 footer is different anyway... people "practicing feel" aren't doing it right. And you can practice things like "start line" from 20 feet and in.

The simple truth is that GIR is the single biggest determinant of your score. Are there exceptionally bad putters out there? Yes, but they're in a small minority. Unless you're in that small minority, TourSpoon, your putting is not what's keeping you a 5.2 index - it's the fact that you're not hitting greens. It's the fact that your'e scrambling for pars when you should be tapping in for pars or making the occasional birdie putt.

I think you'd be surprised on the PGA Tour how little they work on their putting. Unless you're an exceptionally great putter or an exceptionally bad putter, the PGA Tour events are won by getting the ball on the green, close to the hole, and with a slight variance for "luck." The MoneyGolf article from several months ago talks about this - the long game is where golfers separate themselves on the PGA Tour. Putting accounts for very little.

Originally Posted by TourSpoon

I know that my best rounds are produced by my ability to hit greens first. That I will not argue with. I frequently use the example that if you can hit 9 greens and then get u/d almost half the time you are looking at a 77. Through in a couple of birdies and you are playing to 3 or 4 cap which is not too shabby. See it's an easy game. Lol.

Then why do you keep talking about putting like it's going to cure AIDS and bring about world peace? :-) If it's just to play devil's advocate, that's fine by me. :-D

[McKee]

Golfers should spend the most of their time just working on being more talented.

[TourSpoon]

Maybe a little devil...while putting may not bring world peace, enough 3 putts can bring certain discord. I know this is off topic but saving a par with a one putt has a mental effect that is conducive to building confidence which is something that cannot be quantified statistically. I admit that your points are well taken and valid. To be real honest about putting I spend the majority of time within 10 feet and sometimes don't make it past 6 feet because those are the putts you can make to some degree of certainty. I like the short game practice bit of spending more time chipping and pitching over putting. Again, my practice in judging a good u/d attempt is to get within the 6 foot range, 3 feet if it is an easier shot. A friend of mine way back that did play on tour practiced a few times where I used to work and I recall him spending most of his time on irons on the range and then pitching/chipping at almost the rate at what you said. I remember watching him one time chipping with an 8 iron for over an hour. That translated to chipping in and many tap-ins the few times I played with him. Certainly watching him birdie 7 holes one day was due to gir and hitting it close to give himself a chance. Looking back at my scorecards, I can see my best days are from high gir days with total putts not being the significant factor. Even in my own blog I can see where I comment that my improvement in iron play was key in scoring. On the range I find myself hitting more short irons than anything else. There does come a point for me when the mental part comes in play during a round and with all things being equal I am more than capable of going lower than a 5. Hitting more greens is the key enough so that I will hit my 2h off the tee on shorter or tighter holes just to have a better chance at a gir. So my actions support the notion of gir as I have matured enough in my strategy to get myself in position to get the gir. So as much as my previous posts have been a bit devilish, my own actions support your points and the fact that we are drinking the same kool-aid. This thread is one of the better ones I have read in a long time and it is good to see some thought provoking discussion.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by TourSpoon

While putting may not bring world peace, enough 3 putts can bring certain discord. I know this is off topic but saving a par with a one putt has a mental effect that is conducive to building confidence which is something that cannot be quantified statistically. I admit that your points are well taken and valid.

Making a birdie putt feels better. :-) Constantly putting for pars is a grind. You know what they say about a dog who chases cars and a golfer (pro) who putts for pars...

[cbrian]

I haven't read all the posts in this thread because I'm so late to the party, so maybe this has already been said. Working on your short game SHOULD be good practice for your long game.... even more so for your poor golfers. Not only will the player be working on getting better around the greens, but he should also be getting better at achieving good impact alignments. Its dual purpose and its much much easier to learn, feel, understand, etc good impact.

So thats why the argument of long vs short seems like a false dichotomy. If I'm working on good impact when I'm chipping, am I only working on short game? As I've said, my answer is no. Its dual purpose and is a great lead in to long game work. Its not so black and white like some people are making it out to be.

I think the best advice is work on what YOU need. When I was in the process of making big changes with my swing I was struggling to be 50-50 with my time. In fact I often dedicated a huge portion of my time to my swing. However, two days ago I spent all day on the practice greens. I maybe hit four or five shots with my 8 iron in a 6 1/2 hour session. The reasoning was I had played the day before and hit almost every fairway/green and did absolutely nothing with it. Made mistakes when I missed greens and my speed was atrocious. That short game session was what I needed.

Also, I learned I need to start spending much more practice time on the course.... another piece to the puzzle.

[WUTiger]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iacas

... The higher the handicap, the easier it is to drop them. It's usually easier to drop the short-game handicap, too, with less work... but the lower you go the less likely that is. Lots of 3 handicappers have the short game of a 1 but the long game of a 5. ...

I agree that the short game is the No. 1 most important part of the golf game.

But for mid to high-HDCP players, the No. 1.2 most important thing is to get your tee shot in the fairway . On days when I get most of my tee shots in the fairway or first cut of rough, I break 90. But if I'm wild off the tee, it's a long day. (This is especially true at my new home course: OB on 16 holes, and OB both left and right on 10 holes.)