Ben Hogan, the Con Artist?

[The Recreational Golfer]

At http://www.albarkow.com/ , there is a piece by Barkow called, A Very Revealing Letter, that says Hogan liked to put people on about how to swing a club. Some of what he wrote about his "secrets" were either B.S. (Barkow uses the complete word), or not what he actually did.

It's short, give it a look.

[arogolf]

That is interesting and after reading it, not all that surprising.  He does mention a picture of hogan swinging ala stack and tilt, but it was towards the end of his career and maybe he did this because of bodily limitations more than anything else.

I now have  to go dig out five lessons and see if there is anything about the hand position, dont think there is but now curious.

[uttexas]

My impression is that Hogan was a perfectionist. Anything that he put his name on (his books for example); he would believe in 100%. I also suspect that Hogan could get irritated, so if he was asked a question by a sports reporter about the golf swing, his flippant reply might be published in an magazine article. Then there's the issue of describing a feel. What Hogan was feeling in the golf swing, might not have been what he did. Different feels in the swing work for different people and describing those feelings can be very complex. For example, Hogan describes pointing your antecubital fossa (front of your elbows) forwards and up to the sky at address--he clearly didn't exactly do this, but might have felt it. He also misused the words "supination" and "pronation"

[Ben]

Originally Posted by uttexas

My impression is that Hogan was a perfectionist. Anything that he put his name on (his books for example); he would believe in 100%. I also suspect that Hogan could get irritated, so if he was asked a question by a sports reporter about the golf swing, his flippant reply might be published in an magazine article. Then there's the issue of describing a feel. What Hogan was feeling in the golf swing, might not have been what he did. Different feels in the swing work for different people and describing those feelings can be very complex. For example, Hogan describes pointing your antecubital fossa (front of your elbows) forwards and up to the sky at address--he clearly didn't exactly do this, but might have felt it. He also misused the words "supination" and "pronation"

The link is busted. But I'm gonna go with uttexas here. I've done a lot of reading about Hogan and found that he wasn't a fan of press conferences, particularly when he was presented with (for lack of a better term) stupid questions. He was easily put-off and willing to give an equally irritating reply.

About a Hogan "secret", I think that is something that has been made up by instructors or gurus to sell they're own product. Hogan's books, Power Golf and Five Lessons give a full overview of how Hogan feels his swing, precise but written in a way that anyone should be able to understand. Five Lessons being authored when Hogan was at his prime.

I'm glad that the link is busted. whomever Al Barkow is, doesn't need any undue attention for bad-mouthing a legend. (If he was indeed bad-mouthing him in this article)

[newtogolf]

I think this guys is looking to milk some fame out of Hogans name.  If Hogan admitted in a letter than he was a "con artist" or his secrets were a hoax he'd be paid well for letting one of the golf publications print the letter.  Instead he took some content out of context and uses it as "proof" to validate his argument.  I think he's the con-artist not Hogan

Hogan put in a lot of time on the range to perfect his swing.  He admitted that he wasn't one to give out free "secrets" to his competition.  I just finished reading "This Secret of Hogans Swing" by Tom Bertrand who worked for John Schlee (Maximum Golf) .  Accoding to Bertrand, Hogan helped Schlee with his swing and taught Schlee "the secrets".  Schlee took Hogans teachings and had some success on the Tour and incorporated them into his "Maximum Golf" instructional package and golf school.   Schlee was not allowed to publish Hogans "secrets" but according to Bertrand he was able to teach it as part of his own teachings.

The book at one point discusses the Time Magazine article and the pressure that was placed on Hogan at the time to disclose his secret.  According to Schlee, he, Jimmy Demaret,  Hogans brother and wife were the only ones that knew there was more than one secret, and that the wrist pronation was a part of one of them.  Most golfers at the time dismissed it because pronation wasn't held in high regards or considered a secret.  Those close to Hogan knew that he used his wrists to cure his hook combined with the weak grip suggested by Picard.  Schlee stated that most pro's at the time thought Hogan used pronation and suppination to just cure to his hook, and the secret was useless to those that didn't hook the ball, but Hogan revealed his wrists were a power source as well.  Hogan believed that beginner golfers typically sliced the ball, but as their swing and power developed to an advanced level they would begin to hook the ball more and that "his secret" was not just the cure for the hook, but also how to gain additional power and yardage.  Another part of the secret was Hogans right leg inward flex and how he used it to coil around to achieve proper hip coil and tension.

I have become quite a fan of Hogan given my instructor is a teacher of his methods and holds him in very high regard.  I've read most of the books he wrote or that were written about him and it seems Hogan was not a very friendly person on tour, especially before his accident.  Most of the guys on tour didn't like him because of his demeanor or his success.   It's no surprise that even in 2011 people are looking to discredit Hogan or use his name for their own personal gain.

[The Recreational Golfer]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

I think this guys is looking to milk some fame out of Hogans name.  If Hogan admitted in a letter than he was a "con artist" or his secrets were a hoax he'd be paid well for letting one of the golf publications print the letter.  Instead he took some content out of context and uses it as "proof" to validate his argument.  I think he's the con-artist not Hogan

Hogan didn't say that in the letter. Because of link problems, you might not have been able to read the letter, nor Barkow's conversation with Herbert Warren Wind, the ghostwriter of the famous Life magazine article.

I just cleared my cache and tried the link again. It worked, but not from this page for some reason.

Try typing the URL into Google and getting to the page from there.

BTW, Al Barkow is the dean of American golf writers, though Dan Jenkins might argue that, editor of Golf Digest (1970-72), and other golf publications, a contributor on golf to numerous publications, the author of several books on golf history, and ghostwriter of instruction books by Billy Casper, Ken Venturi, George Low, Phil Rogers, and the current Dave Stockton book on putting. He has won awards for his golf writing, and was a good enough player to qualify for the U.S. Amateur in 1971. He's been around the block. I doubt he is looking for personal gain here.

[newtogolf]

I read the blog before writing my post and in it Barkow states " Now, the letter to Mahoney, which I won’t produce in its entirety here if only because some of it is only common polite formalities". He then states , "That’s not what you would expect, given his reputation for integrity, but the truth is that Hogan had a lot of the con artist in him. It’s a strange quirk in the human makeup that people who are quiet in public (and in private), such as Hogan, are often awarded the honor of having high ethical standards. It’s not always the case.

Barkow makes the statement about Hogan being a con-artist in his 2nd paragraph and then uses quotes from the Mahoney letter out of context to support his assertions.  I simply stated if the letter on it's own is incriminating and proves Hogan is a con-artist then publish the entire letter and let the readers decide. Does he expect me to believe out of 13 pages there's nothing we are readers should see except the selected quotes he provides?  I don't care how respected a writer he is, the way he's presenting the information is questionable and self serving.

If the letter stated

Originally Posted by The Recreational Golfer

Hogan didn't say that in the letter. Because of link problems, you might not have been able to read the letter, nor Barkow's conversation with Herbert Warren Wind, the ghostwriter of the famous Life magazine article.

BTW, Al Barkow is the dean of American golf writers, though Dan Jenkins might argue that, editor of Golf Digest (1970-72), and other golf publications, a contributor on golf to numerous publications, the author of several books on golf history, and ghostwriter of instruction books by Billy Casper, Ken Venturi, George Low, Phil Rogers, and the current Dave Stockton book on putting. He has won awards for his golf writing, and was a good enough player to qualify for the U.S. Amateur in 1971. He's been around the block. I doubt he is looking for personal gain here.

[The Tin Man]

Sam Snead said that since everybody is watching everybody else for tips there are no secrets.

[MEfree]

Originally Posted by The Tin Man

Sam Snead said that since everybody is watching everybody else for tips there are no secrets.

OTOH, I recall Tom Watson saying a few years back that he had a "secret" he hadn't or wasn't going to reveal.  When I just did a google search I found this http://www.golfblogger.com/index.php/golf/comments/tom_watson_reveals_golfs_secret/

While it is true that you can watch everyone else, the secret may be in what they are feeling or thinking...

[iacas]

Originally Posted by The Recreational Golfer

I just cleared my cache and tried the link again. It worked, but not from this page for some reason.

The comma was being added to the URL. That's all.