Do You Support the PGA's "Tee It Forward" Effort?

[Lihu]

I think that is a big part of the problem.  They need to quit calling them the "ladies" and "senior" tees.  Of course, that is well ingrained in the culture and it will be real hard to change it.

I believe what would also help is for better golfers to play alongside those who should use shorter tees.  It would eliminate the stigma from hearing "I'm going to play from back here, but you need to move forward".

They call the white tees the "standard men's tees" and the blue tees "Championship" or "Back" tees.

If you drive straight and about 200 yards, it probably doesn't make too much difference which tees you play.

This is exactly where the problem lies.

Aside from older folks, pretty much any able bodied young to middle aged man should be able to play from the white's.      Problem is with guys who have delusions that they should be playing from the blue/black tees and have no business doing so.

How about this idea ... say an average white length is 6100 yards, put the blue tee's at 6200 (instead of 6600), and keep the tips at 6800+ or whatever for the select few that should be back there.      Making the blues and whites fairly close together would solve the problem by giving those who feel they need an ego boost, a realistic chance at playing the blues and not slowing everybody else down ...

That's not too bad of an idea, but 6200 yard tees is still too far back, 5500 yards would be more suitable for most people. It would make the game really fun and really fast, but many men will still play the 6800+ tees because no one wants to be "short".

Personally, I like the shorter tees, but because my playing partners and my son need to play the blue tees for practice. We are normally waiting for other parties anyway, so I'm not bothered by that.

If I am playing on my own, I pick whatever tees I feel like and stick with them.

[Dave2512]

If you drive straight and about 200 yards, it probably doesn't make too much difference which tees you play.

It would here. You would face approach shots longer than you hit a driver. Most guys I see here that are bogey golfer types hit decent drives in the 220-240 range when they aren't chasing balls left and right. The blue tees, two up from the back, at my home course has 6 par 4's in the 420-440 range. Even if they hit their best possible drives on each of those holes they still would face a long approach. Safe to assume a bogey golfers GIR % from 200 yards is horrible.

[whatwoodtigerdo]

If you drive straight and about 200 yards, it probably doesn't make too much difference which tees you play

Yeah that's not true at all. I just moved to the back tees, not the tips but the backs. I have played 3 courses in the 6600-6700 range in the last week and a half and if you are hitting 200 yards off the tee you better have pro level short game to even think about shooting under 90 from there.

[whatwoodtigerdo]

This is exactly where the problem lies. Aside from older folks, pretty much any able bodied young to middle aged man should be able to play from the white's.      Problem is with guys who have delusions that they should be playing from the blue/black tees and have no business doing so.    How about this idea ... say an average white length is 6100 yards, [U]put the blue tee's at 6200[/U] (instead of 6600), and keep the tips at 6800+ or whatever for the select few that should be back there.      Making the blues and whites fairly close together would solve the problem by giving those who feel they need an ego boost, a realistic chance at playing the blues and not slowing everybody else down ...

Sorry for no multiple quote just read this too. Horrible idea. You realize the blue tees would be 5 yards longer than the whites on average, right? This idea would probably force more players to move to the tips than should. Right now I am feeling okay at 6400-6700 range. If you forced me to choose 6000 or 6900 I am probably going to take 6900 right now and that might be too long. What really needs to happen is people need to swallow their pride and just because one person in the group can play the blues doesn't mean the whole group needs to. There is no rule saying everybody has to play the same box and the best player in the group needs to learn to be vocal about that and teach the rest of the group how to enjoy golf.

[dave s]

I just look at the card and play the tees that are 5800-6200 yards.  Anything beyond 6200 is beyond the capabilities of my length off the tee.

"Man's got to know his limitations."

dave (clint)

[Strandly]

I've only played the tips once since I started playing and it was probably a bad idea as far as scoring but I was curious and wanted to have the experience.

Anyway, I play one of the middle tees 99.9% of the time so as far as I'm concerned I won't be teeing anything forward.  I want the game to be challenging, if I need to have a perfect strike on a given hole and that only happens 3 times out of 10... that's not the tee box's fault, that's my fault.

[Lihu]

It would here. You would face approach shots longer than you hit a driver. Most guys I see here that are bogey golfer types hit decent drives in the 220-240 range when they aren't chasing balls left and right. The blue tees, two up from the back, at my home course has 6 par 4's in the 420-440 range. Even if they hit their best possible drives on each of those holes they still would face a long approach. Safe to assume a bogey golfers GIR % from 200 yards is horrible.

[quote name="whatwoodtigerdo" url="/t/47845/do-you-support-the-pgas-tee-it-forward-effort/108#post_1003513"] Yeah that's not true at all. I just moved to the back tees, not the tips but the backs. I have played 3 courses in the 6600-6700 range in the last week and a half and if you are hitting 200 yards off the tee you better have pro level short game to even think about shooting under 90 from there.[/quote] Let me re-hash this with the standard playing conditions, if you hit the ball (carry) 200 yards straight, at sea level with normal summer temperatures and humidity, then you can probably play off any tees. I suppose that if you are at altitude you would add close to 10% to your distance which would be 220 carry?

[trackster]

Let me re-hash this with the standard playing conditions, if you hit the ball (carry) 200 yards straight, at sea level with normal summer temperatures and humidity, then you can probably play off any tees.

I suppose that if you are at altitude you would add close to 10% to your distance which would be 220 carry?

That's still way to short.  To play courses that are 7000+ effectively (meaning that you can actually reach every par 4 in two shots) you need about 250-275 off the tee at least.  If you are only hitting 200 off the tee then the longest par 4 that you could reach in two shots (driver/3 wood) would be about 385 yards.  Courses that are 7000+ will usually have par 4s that are longer than 450 yards.

[isukgolf]

I think that on a golf forum, there are a lot of people that can "hit" a ball an probably carry it 200+ ... good for you!!

I think the Tee It Forward is aimed at the people that would need a driver, and a bus ticket to carry  200+ ... that includes me ... when I bomb it out there, with the roll, on a good day, it is 230 ... and I observe a lot of other golfers on the weekend on the same bus as me ... and we should "tee it forward" because we are still in the 100 score range at the white tees!

And on a side bet ... I bet if I asked 10 of "those" golfers how many are into golf enough to be on golf forum, it would 1 at best ...

[Lihu]

That's still way to short.  To play courses that are 7000+ effectively (meaning that you can actually reach every par 4 in two shots) you need about 250-275 off the tee at least.  If you are only hitting 200 off the tee then the longest par 4 that you could reach in two shots (driver/3 wood) would be about 385 yards.  Courses that are 7000+ will usually have par 4s that are longer than 450 yards.

I guess, I might be using the wrong term. I just figured "carry" is how far I "hit" the ball.

So, if you hit the ball 200 yards it could roll out to 220-240, and your 3W would carry 180 for a total distance of 200-220, or 420-460 yards.

I think that on a golf forum, there are a lot of people that can "hit" a ball an probably carry it 200+ ... good for you!!

I think the Tee It Forward is aimed at the people that would need a driver, and a bus ticket to carry  200+ ... that includes me ... when I bomb it out there, with the roll, on a good day, it is 230 ... and I observe a lot of other golfers on the weekend on the same bus as me ... and we should "tee it forward" because we are still in the 100 score range at the white tees!

And on a side bet ... I bet if I asked 10 of "those" golfers how many are into golf enough to be on golf forum, it would 1 at best ...

To carry the ball 200 yards, you need a swing speed of 83mph. To hit it straight you just need to have a controlled 83mph swing. I don't see why that's so hard to do for someone learning good swing mechanics.

I bet most people on this forum have >90mph swing speeds.

If you don't have any physical injuries or anything, you should be able to learn as well.

[late347]

I intend to play shorter tees when im still high capper. Don't make golf any more difficult than it needs to be...

I still feel though, that low cappers ought not to play short tees. In my country if you play short tees, your result will be rated accordingly. So you must play really well, (faultless short game) to stay at low handicap for a senior golfer for example. Because, you have different rating / slope for each set of tees.

Rating / slope will be much lower for the short tees obviously, so the course is much easier to play for course rating team (including legitimate scratch golfers and bogey golfers). And also easier to play for the bogey golfer, assuming average bogey golfer plays better and longer teeshots than average golfer.

By USGA definition scratch golfer can drive 250 yards from the tee... so it doesn't kind of "feel legitimate" to allow low cappers to even play from short tees in my opinion...

[trackster]

I still feel though, that low cappers ought not to play short tees. In my country if you play short tees, your result will be rated accordingly. So you must play really well, (faultless short game) to stay at low handicap for a senior golfer for example. Because, you have different rating / slope for each set of tees.

Rating / slope will be much lower for the short tees obviously, so the course is much easier to play for course rating team (including legitimate scratch golfers and bogey golfers). And also easier to play for the bogey golfer, assuming average bogey golfer plays better and longer teeshots than average golfer.

Definitely agree.  The most forward tees at my course are 5300 yards and rated something like 65/109 and the back tees are 6600 and rated around 72/120.  I played two rounds last year from the most forward tees and shot a 77 and 75 ( my two lowest 18s ever); however, since the course was rated so low I actually shot over my handicap in the 77 round and about right on it in the 75 round.  You would have to shoot -7 to -8 from these tees to play scratch golf.

The problem with easy rated courses is that the blow ups and mistakes still happen.  Blow up holes from the most forward tees are going to cost you more than they would from the back tees.

[late347]

Definitely agree.  The most forward tees at my course are 5300 yards and rated something like 65/109 and the back tees are 6600 and rated around 72/120.  I played two rounds last year from the most forward tees and shot a 77 and 75 ( my two lowest 18s ever); however, since the course was rated so low I actually shot over my handicap in the 77 round and about right on it in the 75 round.  You would have to shoot -7 to -8 from these tees to play scratch golf.

The problem with easy rated courses is that the blow ups and mistakes still happen.  Blow up holes from the most forward tees are going to cost you more than they would from the back tees.

yea, once I get some consistency to my driver shots and more consistency to short game shots with wedges (still about 30hcp in American style) I'll go to the mid-men's tees. (when I'm ready for it hehheh...)

It just goes to prove that driving the ball long and accurate is also a golf skill. At least it is considered to be a golf skill according to handicap organisations (they're the ones doing the course rating / slope procedures, after all)

If you had lowcapper shorter-hitting golfer, who is clinging to his/her handicap by the threads... You compare that kind of golfer to a more regular and more balanced skilled golfer who hits it longer with all clubs...

Obviously the shorter-hitters shortgame is going to be better (proven by the low hcp staying steady, despite shorter shots). But the balanced golfer's iron shots and woods shots are going to be a lot better, more powerful shots across all clubs.

Which golfer has "more true" hcp? More accurately representative hcp? Who would win, or have the edge in matchplay? After all, they have the same hcp, they play the same tees - not very many handicap strokes allotted because they are the same  hcp.

[Lihu]

yea, once I get some consistency to my driver shots and more consistency to short game shots with wedges (still about 30hcp in American style) I'll go to the mid-men's tees. (when I'm ready for it hehheh...)

It just goes to prove that driving the ball long and accurate is also a golf skill. At least it is considered to be a golf skill according to handicap organisations (they're the ones doing the course rating / slope procedures, after all)

If you had lowcapper shorter-hitting golfer, who is clinging to his/her handicap by the threads... You compare that kind of golfer to a more regular and more balanced skilled golfer who hits it longer with all clubs...

Obviously the shorter-hitters shortgame is going to be better (proven by the low hcp staying steady, despite shorter shots). But the balanced golfer's iron shots and woods shots are going to be a lot better, more powerful shots across all clubs.

Which golfer has "more true" hcp? More accurately representative hcp? Who would win, or have the edge in matchplay? After all, they have the same hcp, they play the same tees - not very many handicap strokes allotted because they are the same  hcp.

Their handicap is not hanging by a thread at all.

The thing that differentiates equivalent handicappers is not really distance. It's the distribution of their scores. A more consistent player will win more holes.

[The Recreational Golfer]

Absolutely.

The course I play on most often, OGA (Oregon Golf Association) Golf Course, has five sets of tees, all but the Blacks rated for men and women.

Black: 6,565

Blue: 6,307

White: 5,917

Commander: 5,672   (an amalgamation of white and red tees)

Red: 5,398

Take your pick. I used to play the Whites, but after my back surgeries I lost about ten yards, so the Commanders are just right.

Don't get fooled by the short yardage for the Black tees, either. They're rated 72.2/141.

[Jeremie Boop]

Almost none of the courses in my area are long enough to justify teeing forward. At least not for anyone that can hit the ball 200ish off the tee. I can see it being important for courses with 6500+ from the standard men's tees.

[Dave2512]

Consistency is more a factor than distance. Any high handicap golfer that believes they are always 200ish and towards the intended target isn't being honest with themselves. I just got back from my lesson, my instructor has FlightScope. My shot pattern was somewhat tight for a shit golfer but my distance, ball speed and shot height varied quite a bit with good and bad contact. I hit something like 36 7 irons and no shot was on top of another one. As we worked through longer clubs the numbers between good and bad shots showed greater variation. I don't think golfers realize how much variation they have shot to shot.

[Jeremie Boop]

Consistency is more a factor than distance. Any high handicap golfer that believes they are always 200ish and towards the intended target isn't being honest with themselves. I just got back from my lesson, my instructor has FlightScope. My shot pattern was somewhat tight for a shit golfer but my distance, ball speed and shot height varied quite a bit with good and bad contact. I hit something like 36 7 irons and no shot was on top of another one. As we worked through longer clubs the numbers between good and bad shots showed greater variation. I don't think golfers realize how much variation they have shot to shot.

Most courses here play around 6300 from the men's tees and the tees in front of that are only about 200 yards shorter. Unless people tee up from the very front tees there isn't much benefit to teeing forward. I even don't remember the last time I saw someone tee from the tips which only play about 400 yards longer on average around here.