New Groove Rule

[gmanuel25]

Good question, I'm sure the ball manufacturers will figure something out. I believe that I read that Sergio is now experimenting with a 5 piece TM ball. Could this equal more spin, who knows?

[mdvaldosta]

Well, the Pro V1's have gotten harder to last longer, I'd suspect that in order to spin more they'd have to get softer covers again which would make them less durable (again). There's a trade-off, and the only reason these balls have been able to get harder and still spin well was because of the grooves.

[Iowa Hawkeye]

Will the fact that the edges of the grooves won't "bite" into the cover quit so much make the softer covers more durable than they are now?

If they do make a higher spin ball, as an amature who won't be changing right away I'm excited to see if it will help my spin/stop on the green.

[jamo]

It applies to all clubs with more than 25* loft

[iacas]

Wedges have a U shaped groove.

Incorrect. The shape is not mandated - only the size, the curvature of the edges, etc. They can still be shaped like a box or a U.

I merged this thread into another that's existed for a looooong time. I see another thread that will need the same treatment (merging).

[Iowa Hawkeye]

It applies to all clubs with more than 25* loft

Yeah, I know, I was kind of more curious about the effect on short game. It won't affect my longer irons too much.

[Fourputt]

Yeah, I know, I was kind of more curious about the effect on short game. It won't affect my longer irons too much.

As an 18 handicap I doubt that you will notice much, if any difference. I'm not expecting to notice any significant change. I used plain old V-groove clubs for at least 15 years (bought my first full set of clubs in 1975), so I know from experience that reverting back is not going to be the trauma that so many amateurs seem to think it will be. If I have to allow for 4 or 5 more feet of release, then I'll simply adjust my game to compensate. Golf is a game of constant adjustment... that's just what golfers do.

[Iowa Hawkeye]

As an 18 handicap I doubt that you will notice much, if any difference. I'm not expecting to notice any significant change. I used plain old V-groove clubs for at least 15 years (bought my first full set of clubs in 1975), so I know from experience that reverting back is not going to be the trauma that so many amateurs seem to think it will be. If I have to allow for 4 or 5 more feet of release, then I'll simply adjust my game to compensate. Golf is a game of constant adjustment... that's just what golfers do.

Not to start an argument, but I'm an 18 because I don't have a good long game (Rough to trees to rough type of thing before I get an approach) and I miss putts. I've spent many many hours on my wedges and am pretty good and get good spin and control. But like you said, anything over a 7i, I won't see a difference.

[iacas]

Not to start an argument, but I'm an 18 because I don't have a good long game (Rough to trees to rough type of thing before I get an approach) and I miss putts. I've spent many many hours on my wedges and am pretty good and get good spin and control. But like you said, anything over a 7i, I won't see a difference.

I still side with Fourputt. The vast majority of amateurs won't see anything. If anything, they may become more consistent. Half the time the ball checks up among some of the mid-handicappers I play with it's unexpected and leaves them 20 feet short of where they thought they'd be.

I'm on board with this rule change, and really think it'll be all around good. Yeah, you (and I) may learn to let shots run out a little bit more from the rough (only about 8-10% less spin from fairways), but so what? That's probably a safer shot anyway. Even I'm probably guilty of going at a pin from 120 back when I should play to the center of the green, and a chip from the rough is a gamble anyway. Soon it'll just run out - eliminating guesswork.

[Iowa Hawkeye]

I still side with Fourputt. The vast majority of amateurs won't see anything. If anything, they may become more consistent. Half the time the ball checks up among some of the mid-handicappers I play with it's unexpected and leaves them 20 feet short of where they thought they'd be.

I pitch and flop the majority of the time, rather than chip. Just more comfortable with it.

Back on the ball thing, what kind of changes will we see? Will there be a spinnier Pro V1/Nike One/Z-Star/etc.? Will the X versions become comparable to what the others are now? Or may some introduce something like a "Pro V1-s" that is higher spin as a 3rd ball in the "Tour Performance" families?

[iacas]

I pitch and flop the majority of the time, rather than chip. Just more comfortable with it.

OK, then you'll see even less of a difference. Pitches and flops stop the ball with trajectory, not spin.

Back on the ball thing, what kind of changes will we see? Will there be a spinnier Pro V1/Nike One/Z-Star/etc.? Will the X versions become comparable to what the others are now? Or may some introduce something like a "Pro V1-s" that is higher spin as a 3rd ball in the "Tour Performance" families?

Perhaps. Titleist, fwiw, has said that their next ball revision will be in 2011, sticking to the every-two-year plan they started in 2001 (2003/2005/2007/2009).

[iacas]

Interesting article on the LPGA Tour players and how they don't think it will affect them much at all:

http://www.thegolfchannel.com/tour-i...grooves-30564/

[out_in_30]

hey all,

what is this im hearing about a new wedge rule coming into effect in the next year or so i believe in '10. I am hearing wedges that have i think its U or V grooves forgot which one, like the spin milled vokey and wedges such as this will no longer be allowed in pga play but will remain legal under USGA rules? Is this true? So does this mean that amateur tournaments and tournaments sanctioned by the USGA will allow them? will the US open allow it? i heard this rule is supposedly to make it more difficult to spin the ball out of rough? Anyone have any info or validity on this?

[Lefty22]

hey all,

http://www.pgatour.com/2008/r/08/05/...les/index.html Re-posting link to some sort of official source since the one on the first page is broken.

[RemyM]

I guess I should go get fitted for a new set of irons next month so I can still get a set with the current groves, since for me, they'll be legal for a number of years.

[chriskzoo]

I don't understand why the USGA doesn't just mave a groove template and manufacturers "Here, this is what you can use" for your grooves - uniform spacing and uniform groove shape/depth.

[iacas]

I don't understand why the USGA doesn't just mave a groove template and manufacturers "Here, this is what you can use" for your grooves - uniform spacing and uniform groove shape/depth.

Because they still want to let the companies differentiate them as they'd like. You'll see a variety of different kinds of grooves.

[Parker0065]

I hate to do it but I gotta rant on this subject!!!

Unfortunately, I don't think the USGA is going far enough! I would prefer they reduce the groove volume to something more like what was found in the 1960's and 1970's, and make it for all clubs, not just 25* or lower. I would also like to see them get the ball makers by the throat and start controlling thier spin rates. I don't care about them reducing the all around distance of the ball as long as they did the other two, reducing groove volume and ball spin. Let the big hitters smash it in the rough, but they would be penalized for missing fairways finally!

What this would do is essentially end the "Bomb & Gouge" era, but I don't believe the USGA/PGA Tour want to see that happen. If you roll it back as much as I suggest your going to effect the play of the bigger hitters and two of those bigger hitters would be one Eldrick Woods and Phil Mickelson. Niether one of these guy's are even in the top 100 in Driving Accuracy. The two best players in the world not even in the top 100 in driving accuracy,,,what's up with that?

The USGA is really not doing much if anything to the long ball hitters with thier silly rule of 25* or lower, and they know exactly what they are doing. They say thier tests show not much difference in the short irons. But what they fail to say is that small difference of say 5-10 feet farther from the pin changes the players score by a significant amount. I don't mean to pick on Tiger and Phil but most par-4 holes they play they are hitting 8-pw into the green. If the USGA made all irons conform to the new changes then instead of Phil or Tiger stopping the ball 12-15 feet from the hole they may end up 20-25 feet from the hole which significantly reduces thier chance of making the putt!

Bottom line is the USGA and PGA Tour do not want the "Bomb and Gouge" era to end because it puts fans in the stands and it would also mean fewer wins for Tiger, and Tiger drives the money train, so thats less dollars in all thier pockets if he doesn't do well!

I understand that to them it's a business and it's not good practice to do things that may reduce profits but it sure would be refreshing if they actually made a rule change that meant something and restored the game to it's true intent.

Phew, OK,,,I'm done ranting,,,lol!