3 wood off the tee and accuracy by using it....how?

[MiniBlueDragon]

Originally Posted by In the woods

Every time that I put my three wood on the tee, its a wicked slice.  Off the deck its about 80% straight, 20% WTF.

May just be me but off the deck I play the ball back in my stance compared to off the tee. It could be that the ball's too far forward for you when playing off the tee.

Also take a look at your tee height and try some different heights with the 3w to see if that helps; I found that when I stated out hitting my 3W off a 25mm castle tee I ballooned the majority of shots, scuffed the top of the club and had a lot of slices too. I now hit off a 13mm castle tee with my 3w and it's the perfect height. My iron shots are off a 6mm castle tee and as I've only just bought a driver I need to figure out whether a 31mm, 39mm or 50mm is the best option there.

[ghalfaire]

I don't see this mentioned above so I will mention it.  The driver is usually 2-2.5 inches longer than a 3W.  Shorter clubs are more accurate. Over the years the manufactures have lengthened the drivers in the search of distance off the tee. For some this isn't a problem, but for me it was and I had a lot of trouble keeping my driver in play and out of the rough until I shortened it to 44.5" from 45.5".  This will change the swing weight some but you can correct that if you want.  This certainly helped me keep the ball in the short grass more often and I can't see where I have lost any distance off the tee with the driver.  I know in theory you should lose distance with a shorter club, but in practice if you're making better swing and contact because the club is shorter you won't.

[rustyredcab]

Back to original question: why do people say a 3-wood is more accurate than a driver?

Shorter club makes it easier to hit correctly. All things equal, longer clubs hit the ball farther. But all things are not equal. We are all more likely to hit it solid with shorter clubs. That is why pros use 44" driver even as the off-the-rack drivers are mostly 45". They'd rather hit it solid than hit it with more speed that comes from a longer shaft.

When not hit well, a ball hit by a 3-wood does not go as far as the same not well hit ball hit with a driver. So if you are 10 yards off the fairway with your driver, going back on that same line may put you closer to the fairway or even in the fairway.

You'll find the same issue if you hit your driver 220 and suddenly (because of swing change or new equipment) you hit your drives 250, those extra 30 yards could be great or could be 30 yards deeper in the woods.

That's why people say a 3-wood is more accurate -- it does not go as far and because it has a shorter shaft it should be easier to hit well.. Of course, some people hit their driver better than their 3-wood (perhaps we've all gone through those rounds). Conventional wisdom is out the window if you are hitting your driver straight and your 3-wood all over the place.

[saevel25]

Ah, i get it now.. that image worked great Erik.

I'm a visual person, graphs, images. I use to memorize my notes page by page, thats how i remembered formulats alot, but the overall image of the formulas. Thanks for the help on that.

[Stretch]

Originally Posted by iacas

That's an important thing to grasp but also one that's a bit tougher to grasp.

Let me put what you just wrote another way.

Let's imagine you strike two clubs with a horizontal path. The base of the triangle is parallel to the ground. The direction the face is pointing (let's assume it's located directly above the path line for this first example) is the second side of the triangle (we don't care about the third side). So with a driver you have a "triangle" or a wedge that's about 12 degrees. With a PW or something it's perhaps 35 degrees. Picture both of these wedges oriented away from you directly down the middle of the fairway.

Now, leaving the direction of the face pointing in the same direction, mentally grab the tail end of the base line - the swing path line - and point it 10 degrees to the left. Consider how "tilted" the face of the triangle (or the plane) connecting these two lines would be. With the pitching wedge, the plane will tilt very little. With the driver, the plane will tilt quite a bit.

That's much better. Thanks!

[mdl]

Nice explanation, Stretch and Erik.

Back to the original question.  OP, if you hit your 3w well off the deck, then just don't tee it up.  That's what I used to do when I had a 3W.  Just tee it up 1/8" or 1/4" at most to give yourself sort of an ultra perfect lie and use the off the deck swing you already hit consistently with the 3W instead of trying to tee it all the way up and hit it more like a weakly lofted driver.

[Shindig]

For some this isn't a problem, but for me it was and I had a lot of trouble keeping my driver in play and out of the rough until I shortened it to 44.5" from 45.5".  This will change the swing weight some but you can correct that if you want.  This certainly helped me keep the ball in the short grass more often and I can't see where I have lost any distance off the tee with the driver.  I know in theory you should lose distance with a shorter club, but in practice if you're making better swing and contact because the club is shorter you won't.

Yeah, that was my suspicion; hitting the center of the face more often. I'm debating cutting down my driver for the same reason - get the advantage of the driver head with the advantage of a shorter shaft. I'm just not connecting with the center of the face often enough at this point. I'm curious, and I think it fits with this thread -- who else has had success doing this? My first driver that was a conscious decision was a Cobra F-Speed, 45" shaft. I used to hit 10-11 fairways a round (granted, wider than the ones I play now), which was necessary since I'd only hit it maybe 190 out. Now I'm hitting driver 215-220, but maybe hitting 8 fairways a round, and typically two terrible tee shots per round. Shaft length is 45.75" now -- I didn't even notice that it got longer as I moved up in clubs.

[Kieran123]

Originally Posted by Shindig

Yeah, that was my suspicion; hitting the center of the face more often.

I'm debating cutting down my driver for the same reason - get the advantage of the driver head with the advantage of a shorter shaft. I'm just not connecting with the center of the face often enough at this point.

I'm curious, and I think it fits with this thread -- who else has had success doing this?

My first driver that was a conscious decision was a Cobra F-Speed, 45" shaft. I used to hit 10-11 fairways a round (granted, wider than the ones I play now), which was necessary since I'd only hit it maybe 190 out. Now I'm hitting driver 215-220, but maybe hitting 8 fairways a round, and typically two terrible tee shots per round. Shaft length is 45.75" now -- I didn't even notice that it got longer as I moved up in clubs.

I did this with my old Nike VR. It was 45.5, but I got it cut to 44.25. It was straighter, but my ball flight was lower and it just messed things up for me.

I am thinking about doing it with my Adams ( 46.25" shaft ) and getting it cut to 45. If worse comes to worse, I will get a new shaft if it doesn't work out

[Stretch]

Originally Posted by Kieran123

I did this with my old Nike VR. It was 45.5, but I got it cut to 44.25. It was straighter, but my ball flight was lower and it just messed things up for me.

I am thinking about doing it with my Adams ( 46.25" shaft ) and getting it cut to 45. If worse comes to worse, I will get a new shaft if it doesn't work out

Pet peeve of mine, so please forgive the rant. 46" plus on a driver shaft is in-friggin-sanity and the manufacturers pushing these telephone pole shafts should be strung up from actual telephone poles by their testicles as punishment for the pain and frustration they are inflicting on average golfers.

Robot testing shows that a 90 mph swinger (fairly average except on the Internet) hitting a 46" driver dead nuts will generate all of 0.3 mph additional ball speed over an identical 44" driver. Good for about 0.5 yards of extra carry. Woohoo! But for every 1/4" by which an actual human player misses the sweet spot, he will lose about 5 to 7 yards of carry. And Tom Wishon estimates that less than 10% of golfers have the athletic ability to hit even a 45" driver on-center an acceptable proportion of the time.

This is half of the answer as to why many people can hit their three wood both straighter and further than their driver. The shorter shaft allows them to hit the ball out of the center of the club face more frequently and, often, the loft of the fairway club is actually closer to optimal for their swing speed.

[saevel25]

i was playing a 46" shaft, and i had it cut down to 44", we will see how it goes. I believe i lost about 2-3 mph average on my golf swing, which would be 5-7 yards of carry. But if it goes lower i will get more roll, but it just feels easier to swing now, and alot more stable for me.

Which is wierd, my 3-wood is 43" long, and a 15 degree loft. So there might not be that big of a difference between the two. The only thing is 4.5 degrees of loft and about an inch of length, in irons thats the equivalent of gripping down on your next club down. So probably 1.5 clublenths, so probably 20 yards difference, which is a monster 3-wood for me. Should be fun, no more driver on holes that are less than 400 yards..

I tee up my three wood pretty low, usually so half the ball is just under the top of the club. Since my 3-wood is a low profile, thats a pretty low tee.

[Shindig]

Side but related note: I recently picked up a 3-wood that is half an inch under (42.5" instead of 43"), the same relation I play my irons. The more I think of it, the more insane it must be that my driver is a "standard" 45.75". I hit that 3-wood 200-205 straight. Quite frankly, I should probably just tee off with it until I figure out what I'm doing with my driver. I've been using it on short par-4s since I got it, maybe I should add par-5s to the mix (I never get to one in two anyway). Mixed reviews here on what I can do. My driver is a Nike DyMo square... what's the effect if I remove the grip, cut off an inch (making it 44.75" - or maybe 44.5") from the driver (grip end), and then attach a new grip? Or should I try this with an older driver first before risking the one I keep in the bag regularly? I keep wanting to get into club building, now this thread is really pushing me to do it. I move in a month, maybe right when I move in I'll set up one room to be, in part, for club building/changing. (Also, darn! After I first argued that the driver today is more accurate than a 3-wood, I've just said that for me it's the opposite.)

[Stretch]

Originally Posted by Shindig

Mixed reviews here on what I can do. My driver is a Nike DyMo square... what's the effect if I remove the grip, cut off an inch (making it 44.75" - or maybe 44.5") from the driver (grip end), and then attach a new grip? Or should I try this with an older driver first before risking the one I keep in the bag regularly?

Cutting from the butt will alter the bend profile of the shaft slightly, but probably not enough to worry about. Taking off an inch will also reduce the swing weight by about six points, which you likely won't really notice. If you cut it down more (and I would go to 44" or less if you are playing your irons under length) then you may want to add back some weight on the head with lead tape and put on a lightweight grip to get the swing weight back to somewhere around the range it started. Rule of thumb is plus 2 grams on the head or minus 4 grams on the grip for each additional swing weight point.

[ghalfaire]

Yes you'll get some mixed reviews.  Shortening the driver probably doesn't work for everyone.  I have a buddy who is much better than I and he uses long clubs.  Makes his (all his clubs) the USGA Maximum and is a 5 handicap.  If he was on this forum he would likely tell you that you'll be more accurate & longer with the longer clubs.  But for me that was not true and I doubt it is for very many amateurs.  But the only way I know to find out is try it either with a borrowed short club or shorten yours.  As discussed above it will change the swing weight (I didn't have a problem with my one inch shorting however) and it will change the "kick point" a little, but I really didn't notice that either. It certainly did work for me and I recommend giving it a try.  Worst case you'll have to buy a new shaft if it doesn't work for you.

Originally Posted by Shindig

Mixed reviews here on what I can do. My driver is a Nike DyMo square... what's the effect if I remove the grip, cut off an inch (making it 44.75" - or maybe 44.5") from the driver (grip end), and then attach a new grip? Or should I try this with an older driver first before risking the one I keep in the bag regularly?