Playing Alone

[ghalfaire]

I went out single again today and when playing single I always play two balls.   After completing a hole however I usually do some putting and chipping just to not spend a lot to time waiting on the next tee and to practice.  I keep score on both balls and do so by the rules.  So here is the question.  Should I record, for handicap purpose, these scores in spite of the fact I practice between holes?  Which isn't according to rule for metal play.  I usually do record one (I decide on the first tee which one) but it dawned on me if I record one maybe I should record both or maybe neither.  What do you think?

[sacm3bill]

This is covered under rule 7.2.  The putting and chipping practice between holes is perfectly legal, but playing 2 balls is not. So by the rules, you should not be recording your scores at all.if playing two balls.

[Paradox]

playing two balls is like having two chances to hit a good shot each time...so neither score should be entered.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, don't you have to have a person attest your score before it can be recorded officially?

[sacm3bill]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paradox

playing two balls is like having two chances to hit a good shot each time...so neither score should be entered.

Yeah but he's still playing the bad shots, so the combined score from both balls isn't likely to be that much better than if he was only playing one.  Regardless though, playing a second ball is considered practice during the round, and since putting and chipping between holes are the only forms of practice that are allowed during a round, playing the second ball is simply not allowed under the rules. Granted, you can make additional arguments like you have, which can be debated - but the rules are clear about this and that's really the only rationale needed.

Quote:

Also, if I'm not mistaken, don't you have to have a person attest your score before it can be recorded officially?

That's true under some handicap systems in other countries, but not under the GHIN system in the U.S., where the OP is from.

[ghalfaire]

I thought this might be an interesting discussion.  Here is my argument for what I do.

I don't see anything in the rules that would disallow one from playing two rounds simultaneously and that is what I do.  I don't use the alter ego ball as a second chance to hit a better shot from where ever the first ball was at.  Before I tee off on #1 I decide what ball is mine and what ball is my alter ego and I only record mine for handicap purposes. I play by the rules as I understand them (I admit to learning some new things on TST and this thread in particular) for both balls.  So as best I can tell both balls are legal rounds.

I believe the rules on handicap only require supervision by the committee and don't require you to have a marker or someone that attests to your score.  To me that means if the handicap committee is happy, and they must be because I do this at the club also, then I'm legal on that account.

The reason I began this thread is because a buddy told me what I do is not legal and that the alter ego ball is "practice during the round".  I think, since I don't record the alter ego score, maybe he is correct and I should either give up this practice or record both rounds.  But not sure and could use some other opinions.  Just as an aside in case someone wonders I beat my alter ego about as often as he beats me but we both enjoy the 19th hole brew that is won.

[sacm3bill]

This discussion only became "interesting" with your last post, in which you try to rationalize why playing the second ball is legal despite the rule saying it's not already having been referenced.

Any stroke made at a ball not in play is, by definition, a practice stroke. And only your first ball off the tee is the ball in play, regardless of whether you want to call the 2 balls a "simultaneous" round or anything else not defined or legal under the rules.

Here are your only options under the rules:

- Play one ball and record the score.

- Play two balls and call it a practice round, do not record the score for either.

I guess you could also play two balls, only count the first one, and add 2 strokes to the score for that ball every time you hit the second ball - but your handicap isn't going to be very accurate...

[Grumpter]

Rule 7-2 covers practice but I can't see where it explicitly addresses playing 2 independent rounds, with separate balls, at the same time. From ghalfaire 's perspective he considers the second ball 'in-play' as he is using that ball exclusively to play a full round. While I don't like the idea of players doing something like this it's at least an interesting question, IMO. Is there anything you can link to in the USGA rules that explicitly addresses playing a second ball completely independent from the first that results in the second ball being considered illegal practice (without resorting to condescending type)?

[Shorty]

Rule 7-2 covers practice but I can't see where it explicitly addresses playing 2 independent rounds, with separate balls, at the same time. From ghalfaire 's perspective he considers the second ball 'in-play' as he is using that ball exclusively to play a full round. While I don't like the idea of players doing something like this it's at least an interesting question, IMO. Is there anything you can link to in the USGA rules that explicitly addresses playing a second ball completely independent from the first that results in the second ball being considered illegal practice (without resorting to condescending type)?

You can't play two rounds of golf at the same time. Until you have holed out you may not hit another shot with a different ball. You can't just arbitrarily say that you are playing two inependent rounds of golf at the same time. That is clearly absurd. If you are seriously asking someone to show a specific rule that says that you can't do this, you can expect condescending responses. You may as well ask someone to show you the rule that "explicitly" says you can't halve your score on par 5s on the second Tuesday in February. You have been given your answer. It's 7-2

[jamo]

I kind of like the idea of playing twice on one trip around the course. It is, obviously, against the rules.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by sacm3bill

Yeah but he's still playing the bad shots, so the combined score from both balls isn't likely to be that much better than if he was only playing one.  Regardless though, playing a second ball is considered practice during the round, and since putting and chipping between holes are the only forms of practice that are allowed during a round, playing the second ball is simply not allowed under the rules. Granted, you can make additional arguments like you have, which can be debated - but the rules are clear about this and that's really the only rationale needed.

That's true under some handicap systems in other countries, but not under the GHIN system in the U.S., where the OP is from.

There is no requirement under the GHIN system for attesting scores.  That would be hard to manage since most associations allow online posting, and even the on-course computers don't have any way to attest a score when entered.  I've been using USGA systems for more than 20 years now, and it was only in the early years before we had a computer in the clubhouse that we needed to actually return attested scorecards.  Now it goes on the honor system, and at least in my experience, abuses are minimal.

To the OP:  Sacm3bill has it right.  No posting unless playing a stand alone round of golf, adhering to the rules.

[sacm3bill]

Originally Posted by Shorty

If you are seriously asking someone to show a specific rule that says that you can't do this, you can expect condescending responses.

Indeed. (Although I didn't think my response was that bad - I was just trying to get the point across for the third time ).

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Grumpter

Rule 7-2 covers practice but I can't see where it explicitly addresses playing 2 independent rounds, with separate balls, at the same time. From ghalfaire's perspective he considers the second ball 'in-play' as he is using that ball exclusively to play a full round. While I don't like the idea of players doing something like this it's at least an interesting question, IMO. Is there anything you can link to in the USGA rules that explicitly addresses playing a second ball completely independent from the first that results in the second ball being considered illegal practice (without resorting to condescending type)?

7-2 forbids it.

One could easily ask you to show us the rule that permits playing two balls at one time.

There isn't one. The Rules of Golf explicitly allow "one ball" to be "in play" at any given moment except that you may have two balls (kind of) "in play" when you're playing a provisional. But the "kind of" I put in parentheses is important, there, because even then technically only one ball is "in play" - it's just that you've not been able to determine which one it is just yet.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by Grumpter

Rule 7-2 covers practice but I can't see where it explicitly addresses playing 2 independent rounds, with separate balls, at the same time. From ghalfaire's perspective he considers the second ball 'in-play' as he is using that ball exclusively to play a full round. While I don't like the idea of players doing something like this it's at least an interesting question, IMO. Is there anything you can link to in the USGA rules that explicitly addresses playing a second ball completely independent from the first that results in the second ball being considered illegal practice (without resorting to condescending type)?

There is no such thing as "2 independent rounds" played at the same time.  Under any rule you want to name, as soon as a second ball is put into play, the original ball is abandoned under penalty of stroke and distance.  This is key to any relief situation allowing substitution.  Either the original ball is taken out of play and another ball substituted, or the substitution is made and the original is deemed lost.  In no case is the player allowed to have two balls in play under any circumstances.  Even when the player has invoked Rule 3-3 to play a second ball in an uncertain situation, only one of those balls is ultimately in play.  It shouldn't even need to be stated that to return scores for 2 rounds played simultaneously is a gross breach of several rules.

[ejimsmith]

when i play alone, i only play one ball.  i find it distracting to play with 2, though i know that may just be me.

[Ignorant]

Originally Posted by ghalfaire

I went out single again today and when playing single I always play two balls.   After completing a hole however I usually do some putting and chipping just to not spend a lot to time waiting on the next tee and to practice.  I keep score on both balls and do so by the rules.  So here is the question.  Should I record, for handicap purpose, these scores in spite of the fact I practice between holes?  Which isn't according to rule for metal play.  I usually do record one (I decide on the first tee which one) but it dawned on me if I record one maybe I should record both or maybe neither.  What do you think?

This is quite easy:

'1-1. General
The Game of Golf consists of playing a ball with a club from the teeing ground into the hole by a stroke or successive strokes in accordance with the Rules.'

As far as I understand English language 'a ball' means not more than one ball.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by Ignorant

This is quite easy:

'1-1. General

The Game of Golf consists of playing a ball with a club from the teeing ground into the hole by a stroke or successive strokes in accordance with the Rules.'

As far as I understand English language 'a ball' means not more than one ball.

I was going to post that too, then I saw that it included the phrase "a club", which it could be argued means that you can only use one club too, and we all know that we are allowed 14 clubs.  I understand what the intent is (one club per stroke since anything else would be a bit awkward ), but it just struck me as possibly conflicting wording.

[Ignorant]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

I was going to post that too, then I saw that it included the phrase "a club", which it could be argued means that you can only use one club too, and we all know that we are allowed 14 clubs.  I understand what the intent is (one club per stroke since anything else would be a bit awkward ), but it just struck me as possibly conflicting wording.

Well, you and me (and most of the golfing world) know better than that...

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

There is no such thing as "2 independent rounds" played at the same time.

It would be cool though. Each player on the PGA Tour could be in his own group, playing rounds 1, 2, 3, and 4 simultaneously with 4 separate balls. Oh, Dustin Johnson could have held a 10 stroke lead with his round 4 ball, but based on the 84 he carded with his round 2 ball, he's missed the cut. I can't think of any reason this shouldn't be incorporated for the FedEx - this year!!