Anti doping agency to consider adding tobacco to the banned list...

[Gresh24]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

http://www.health.ny.gov/publications/3403/

That is from the state of New York.  Of course, many states have adopted similar legislation, but certainly not all.  This has nothing to do with OSHA....

[newtogolf]

The employees are all required to submit applications for health insurance where they list their medical history and other personal details which we (business owners) do not get to review.  The health insurance provider sends us corporate rates for individuals, +1 and family coverage for everyone.  The additional cost for smokers or those with health issues are factored into the overall corporate rate.

I can't comment on why a discount if offered.  We were asked to do online training and post non-smoking signs to qualify for it. It's a discount like you'd get on your home if you have a security system.  I'm not sure if every state the provider offers insurance in has the same laws as NY so that might be the reason an additional discount is offered.

Originally Posted by Gresh24

Well, as I mentioned, I also select health insurance for my workplace, and have never seen that.  What if your employees don't have a smoke free home environment?  Do they pay more?

What insurance carrier offers this discount?  And does this mean you can't even let your smokers smoke at all during work hours?  No designated areas allowed?

Also, if you say smoking is banned in all workplaces, why would a discount even be offered?

[newtogolf]

Looking closer you're correct, but the programs are listed as state programs under OSHA

Originally Posted by Gresh24

That is from the state of New York.  Of course, many states have adopted similar legislation, but certainly not all.  This has nothing to do with OSHA....

[Gresh24]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

The employees are all required to submit applications for health insurance where they list their medical history and other personal details which we (business owners) do not get to review.  The health insurance provider sends us corporate rates for individuals, +1 and family coverage for everyone.  The additional cost for smokers or those with health issues are factored into the overall corporate rate.

I can't comment on why a discount if offered.  We were asked to do online training and post non-smoking signs to qualify for it. It's a discount like you'd get on your home if you have a security system.  I'm not sure if every state the provider offers insurance in has the same laws as NY so that might be the reason an additional discount is offered.

Interesting information.  Thanks for the exchange.  I suppose we may be getting an automatic "discount" since my state has non-smoking laws already in place too.  I don't get why you need training or have to "quailify" for something that is law.

[newtogolf]

You're welcome.  For a larger business they may have to set up "smoking areas" that have proper ventilation and air filtering.  There are also issues with smokers with regards to breaks as some smokers take more breaks than non-smokers and dealing with that becomes an issue for HR.  I'll ask our benefits provider for more details but they were the ones that suggested we attend it.

Originally Posted by Gresh24

Interesting information.  Thanks for the exchange.  I suppose we may be getting an automatic "discount" since my state has non-smoking laws already in place too.  I don't get why you need training or have to "quailify" for something that is law.

[Spyder]

Listen, as a smoker myself, I will ask you if you would mind if I lit up before I do so if I am grouped up with you during some random scramble or some other way that I'd end up sharing a cart or group with people that I do not know. If you do mind and we're grouped, I will gladly not smoke . I will smoke at the turn, or find a way to do it where it is in no way offensive to you.

On the other hand , if you are in a group behind me and make a comment about my smoking, you're going to look pretty foolish by the time I'm done talking some common sense into you. Because until it is banned by the golf course, I do have that right to smoke and smoke right next to you. I'm not the type of person to be childish or immoral and do that type of thing, but technically I can right now in my state if I chose to. If you do not know me and you're behind me talking your head off about my smoking, then do yourself a favor and let another group go ahead of you. Make sure to explain that you're offended by the guy smoking 300 yards away from you.

I'm not sure where some people get their logic when trying to debate topics like this. I actually was asked by a group, who drove up and parked their carts right behind us on the first hole, if I would mind not smoking until we advanced. I politely turned around and said "Actually, yes I do mind.". The guy looked disgusted and I reminded him that he's not related to me, he's not my buddy, he's not in my group and he has every right to drive his happy little ass backwards and off ours and wait until it's their tee. That's exactly what they did, they slammed it into reverse and backed up about 20 yards.

Mind you, this individual had a STANDING COOLER that was filled with about 5 different types of liquor (Hillbilly Jungle Juice). Now tell me, how classy is that of someone to ask me not to do something that doesn't need to affect them if they simply "back off me", when they're carting around 3 gallons of DUI and liquid courage? Let alone the fact that they are bringing their own liquor onto the course which is a major breaking of a major rule on 99% of courses, if not all. Many smokers don't just throw their smokes around all over the course, while obviously some do. How many pop bottles, beer cans, pieces of paper, hot dog wrappers, chip bags, tees, ball sleeves, gum, water bottles or any other item have you seen laying around the course? I would bet my wallet that those items vastly outnumber the butts. I would also venture to guess, not assume, that some of the people who complain about the butts are also the same people who accidentally miss the trash can 5 feet away from them and throw garbage off the cart, or into the weeds.

People don't complain when smokers build them a new football stadium with smoking taxes, but don't you dare light up that Marlboro anywhere near the damn thing. I understand though, non-smokers shouldn't be sitting next to a smoker. But for the sake of all sanity, at least have the decency to NOT make us walk completely out of the stadium and miss a full quarter of the game to go have a smoke and come back. You can build a $2B stadium, but you cannot put in a ventilated smoking area like many airports do?

Point blank, we're outside on a golf course and I will smoke when I please so long as I'm not grouped with someone who it might offend. Don't ever think of asking someone you have the option of not being around, to not smoke though. This applies anywhere, not just the golf course. I've never heard of anyone walking down the street 5 minutes after someone has finished smoking and heard them say "Damn! It's cigarette smoke! Ugh, my lungs!". Really?


BTW

There's many people who have had cancer, have cancer, or will have cancer without ever smoking or inhaling cigarette smoke. I do believe George Burns did just fine on his cigar, cigarette, brandy and bacon diet. If you think he's the only one to do so, or some miracle case, you're diluted. Take your propaganda elsewhere.

[iacas]

What does any of this discussion have to do with the original post? C'mon guys...

I think nicotine should be added to the list of banned substances. Angel Cabrera famously smoked his way to a U.S. Open victory at Oakmont, claiming that it calmed his nerves. That sounds "performance enhancing" to me.

[funkyfred72]

Why not add all foods and drinks to the list too?  When players get low on energy they eat and/or drink to get their energy level and focus back up.  That sounds "performance enhancing" to me.

Originally Posted by iacas

What does any of this discussion have to do with the original post? C'mon guys...

I think nicotine should be added to the list of banned substances. Angel Cabrera famously smoked his way to a U.S. Open victory at Oakmont, claiming that it calmed his nerves. That sounds "performance enhancing" to me.

[Spyder]

The debate of banning cigarettes came up so I offered my personal opinion on the subject. Quite frankly, it has plenty to do with the original post. When someone brings up banning something, a debate will occur right away. The debate will obviously be all in favor vs opposition. Then, a debate will need to have substantial reasons backing each ideal. I simply stated mine in a lengthy way.

I don't think it should be banned. If it ever did happen, I expect to see baseball ban it as well.

[meenman]

Originally Posted by Spyder

The debate of banning cigarettes came up so I offered my personal opinion on the subject. Quite frankly, it has plenty to do with the original post. When someone brings up banning something, a debate will occur right away. The debate will obviously be all in favor vs opposition. Then, a debate will need to have substantial reasons backing each ideal. I simply stated mine in a lengthy way.

I don't think it should be banned. If it ever did happen, I expect to see baseball ban it as well.

Baseball has banned it in the minor leagues - not testing for it, but players are no longer allowed to use smokeless tobacco on the field

[LankyLefty]

This article merely states that they are investigating its effect as a PED.

THC or the drug in marijuana is on the list of PEDs but not only because it is illegal but because in its pure form and in high doses over time it can increase lung capacity thus allowing people to intake more oxygen then they could not having used it.

The question posed here is not weather smokers should be allowed to play golf or anything like that, but rather if pure nicotine can be used to allow your body to attain a level of performance not attainable otherwise.

Things we and every other athlete use everyday are listed as PEDs because they can be exploited.

A good example is caffeine. A cup of coffee is not going to help a whole lot, but prolonged high doses of caffeine can have the effect of increasing muscle endurance and decreasing the loss in performance of a worn out muscle.

This is not a crusade on smokers, its a look into weather or not nicotine can be used to increase athletic performance.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by funkyfred72

Why not add all foods and drinks to the list too?

Barely worthy of a response, but here goes: nicotine is not needed for survival, and if you had a column for "food" and another for "drug" it ain't goin' in the "food" column.

Originally Posted by LankyLefty

This is not a crusade on smokers, its a look into weather or not nicotine can be used to increase athletic performance.

Right. It deals with pros and tours and high level amateur events, perhaps. It's not going to affect your Saturday morning foursome.

[Spyder]

I just get a little fired up because people try to start a crusade over a mere topic or article. Obviously I'm guilty of that as well after my rant, but I try to hold off until the numbers pour in.

I'll just let this thread go because as Erik stated, I'm not impacted by it and won't be any time soon.

[WUTiger]

Smoking is definitely down on golf courses, and it's hurting my game. Years ago, you could usually find a cigarette butt 5 yards ahead of you on the fairway, and use it to line up your shot. Now, if you land in a litter-free and blemish-free fairway, there's not aiming point for alignment.

[ghalfaire]

I know this is always a volatile subject.  But to respond to the OP I know nicotine is a powerful drug and has a profound and pretty much immediate effect on the body.  Given that is so, and there is no medical reason/benefit from its' use, it could be banned from competition if they choose.  I suspect that they won't choose to however.

[Kieran123]

Originally Posted by iacas

What does any of this discussion have to do with the original post? C'mon guys...

I think nicotine should be added to the list of banned substances. Angel Cabrera famously smoked his way to a U.S. Open victory at Oakmont, claiming that it calmed his nerves. That sounds "performance enhancing" to me.

Smoking does not 'calm' people. In fact, it actually raises blood pressure/heart rate every time you smoke.

[Gresh24]

Originally Posted by iacas

What does any of this discussion have to do with the original post? C'mon guys...

I think nicotine should be added to the list of banned substances. Angel Cabrera famously smoked his way to a U.S. Open victory at Oakmont, claiming that it calmed his nerves. That sounds "performance enhancing" to me.

Smoking is "performance enhancing"?  Please tell me you're joking?

[LankyLefty]

Originally Posted by Gresh24

Smoking is "performance enhancing"?  Please tell me you're joking?

Yes because smoking is the only possible method to get nicotine in your system...........  Some people just don't think.