Improvement Loop

[mvmac]

Erik and I were talking yesterday about the player I'm helping in this thread and how he's against doing certain things that I feel are important to making changes.  When we firs met he wanted a miracle fix.  From my experience there are no miracle fixes and what swing thought might work for one player could be disasterous for another.  We got to talking about an improvement loop students go through, or need to go through in order to be successful.

The title of this thread, Improvement Loop, involves Knowing, Understanding and Doing.  A student needs to Know what piece to work on, then Understand why they should be performing that piece, how it will change the picture, and then they have to Do it.

So, practicing with Joe has been similar to helping out my Dad.  They both want an easy fix that will change the swing but not have it be "technical".  They want to skip the understanding step.  Why is that bad?  It doesn't work because when they'e on the golf course or practicing by themselves and hit some poor shots, they don't know what happened.  Just the other day when I was working with Joe he was telling me about the last time he practiced and said he was struggling with thin pushes.  I asked him if he made sure his head was centered and he said, "Oh yeah, I forgot about that".  Now I've literally have focused on two things for 3 sessions followed up by video summaries.  Basically saying the same thing in each one and WHY not keeping his head centered leads to A, B and C on the downswing.  He just didn't want to understand.

I feel that golfers like this think going through the understanding process makes it too complicated.  In reality it simplifies things.  Because not Understanding the basic geometry and physics of it all, that's when we hear golfer come up with excuses like, "got too fast", "didn't keep my head down", "didn't release the club", stuff that now drives me nuts to hear.  The reasons you duck hooked into the woods isn't because you got too fast, it's because the face was aimed left and the path was too far out to the right.  You Know you have a tendency to get the rate of closure too high on the followthrough due to losing your pressure points and Understand how that motion effects the face/path relationship.  So you Do the opposite for a few practice swings, keeping your pressure points on the followthrough because you Know this slows the rate the club face closes.

The "Loop" changes for an instructor teaching a student or working on their own game.  The instructor needs to Understand how the golf swing works so they can Know what to tell the student, or themselves what to Do.  An example would be a student that struggles with slicing the ball because the weight is too far back at impact(P7).  The instructor understands we swing on a circle, having the weight too far back results in slices due to the ball being struck on the front side of the circle, path too much across the ball.  (If this sounds new or you want to learn more read below and check this out )  The instructor Knows to tell the student to flex his left knee forward on the downswing because they Understand to hit a draw, the weight needs to be forward, which helps the hands get forward so the ball can be struct on the backside of the circle, before the point of tangency.  And in Doing it, the instructor can evaluate if the student is changing the picture enough or if they need to convey a different feel; belt buckle forward, slide your hips, hips to first base, crush the can, add palmar flexion, etc.

I believe you need all 3 to get better and keep improving.  IMO the instructor's goal is to eventually have the student be their own coach because the student will have the Understanding of how the swing works and Know what to Do to change things.  I'm not saying the student won't need to see an instructor from time to time but the student should have the ability that when they hit a poor shot that they can make some practice swing Doing what they Know is correct and get it back within one shot.

[iacas]

Thanks for posting Mike. I think this is important, definitely.

On some things, "knowing" and "understanding" come very quickly. For example, the ball flight laws. They take a minute to "know" and another minute to "understand" them. Then, whether you're thinking about them or not, you're "doing" them every time.

I think the importance of this loop cannot be over-stated. Again, for the student:

Know -> Understand -> Do

For the instructor, it's a bit more like this:

Understand -> Know -> Do

The "do" part loops back to inform the first part. Keep going? Too much? Time for something else?

Let's suppose a student lacks the understanding, and he's worked on three different things with his instructor. He's on the course hitting some squirrelly shots. Which one of the three things - or two things - does he need to work on? He might know them - be able to recite them - but if he doesn't understand them he can't "do" the appropriate one.

Even if there's only one thing a student has learned, without understanding it, how will he know if he's done that thing enough? Or perhaps too much to the point where he's exaggerated the piece too much?

The first step as a student is to KNOW what to do. Then you've gotta UNDERSTAND why you need to do it and how much, and what effects it will have. Then you've gotta do it. Perhaps in slow motion at first, perhaps it's just a matter of making yourself "do" something that feels uncomfortable or odd at first.

KUD, everyone. :-)

[uttexas]

For many students, I feel that the first lesson could start with 15 minute video explaining the ball flight laws, D plane, point of tangency, basic physics/geometry of the golf swing and it's effect on ball flight. The video could include slow motion swings (DTL and caddy) of professionals with highlights of what they are doing well to hit the ball the farthest with the most accuracy and consistency. At the end of the first lesson a slow motion video (DTL and FO) of the student's swing could be given highlighting the major issues that are preventing the student from achieving distance/accuracy/consistency. Students will improve faster with this knowledge. Understanding the desired swing patterns to achieve the desired effects provides a point of reference and an ultimate goal. Students will have confidence that the instructor knows what he/she is talking about and knows where to take the student each step of the way. BTW--this is basically what evolvr and the evolvr website do.

[tristanhilton85]

Awesome post... I think that the understanding piece is often overlooked and under rated.  I didn't start to really improve until I started to understand what it was that I was doing wrong and what I could do to fix it.

[The_Pharaoh]

Excellent post Mike. Thanks for writing it up.

It is hard to comprehend why your student wouldn't want to understand why you are telling him to do something. Or worry about looking silly doing a drill. Also, just because you feel silly doesn't mean you actually look silly!

[mdl]

Great post.  Just a note that it can go too far the other way.  I'm a statistician and researcher, and my job is to obsessively understand the fine details of a process.  This has helped me on many levels in golf since I don't have the budget for regular lessons and so have been almost entirely self taught through research, self-video, and practice, and feel my progress has been pretty solid given I've done it on my own.

But it also is sometimes a hindrance.  I'm so focused on understanding sometimes that I have trouble just drilling the most major swing change I need to work on and concentrating on developing that to feeling natural.  Instead I'm over-analyzing every aspect of my swing on every shot at the range, and it takes me longer to drill the fixes in to feeling natural cause I'm thinking and tweaking every swing.  Then I need to bring those dozen mechanical thoughts to the course too, cause I haven't drilled them to be as natural and unthinking as I should have given how much range time I've had.  And we all know having 3 mechanical thoughts in your head over every shot on the course can only make you worse than you could be.

This is one reason I'm thinking of buying a net as Erik advocates.  Not having to see the exact results of every shot might help me not over-analyze and just try to groove the feeling of impact on the swings I know are right.

One question.  Since you guys as teachers see the issue addressed by mvmac as a major one, I guess from that that I'm in the minority as far as going too far one way or the other in working the know->understand->do progression.  But am I almost alone, where almost all golfers either generally work that progression in a healthy way or are too quick to want to skip know and understand and run into trouble?  Or is there also a significant number of golfers you've run into who hold themselves back through over-analysis?

[iacas]

Originally Posted by mdl

But it also is sometimes a hindrance.  I'm so focused on understanding sometimes that I have trouble just drilling the most major swing change I need to work on and concentrating on developing that to feeling natural.  Instead I'm over-analyzing every aspect of my swing on every shot at the range, and it takes me longer to drill the fixes in to feeling natural cause I'm thinking and tweaking every swing.

Have you considered that that's not really "understanding"? Part of understanding is prioritization, and it seems perhaps you struggle with that. Kind of like "a little knowledge can be a very dangerous thing." You almost need more knowledge in order to make things simpler again.

[mdl]

Originally Posted by iacas

Have you considered that that's not really "understanding"? Part of understanding is prioritization, and it seems perhaps you struggle with that. Kind of like "a little knowledge can be a very dangerous thing." You almost need more knowledge in order to make things simpler again.

I hadn't considered it that way, but thinking about it that's definitely part of my problem.  I'm giving myself too much credit as far as understanding goes.  Just cause I know at least a bit about all the important pieces of the swing doesn't mean I understand things fully enough to be able to prioritize the one or two things that really need attention and will fix lots of the little ancillary problems I obsess over but which are just symptoms of the main problem I should be focusing on.

Another reason I need to save the money to get regular lessons with a good pro for an extended period of time!  Outsource some of the 10k hours it takes to have that level of understanding!

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by The_Pharaoh

Excellent post Mike. Thanks for writing it up.

It is hard to comprehend why your student wouldn't want to understand why you are telling him to do something. Or worry about looking silly doing a drill. Also, just because you feel silly doesn't mean you actually look silly!

Well said

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by mdl

But it also is sometimes a hindrance.  I'm so focused on understanding sometimes that I have trouble just drilling the most major swing change I need to work on and concentrating on developing that to feeling natural.  Instead I'm over-analyzing every aspect of my swing on every shot at the range, and it takes me longer to drill the fixes in to feeling natural cause I'm thinking and tweaking every swing.  Then I need to bring those dozen mechanical thoughts to the course too, cause I haven't drilled them to be as natural and unthinking as I should have given how much range time I've had.  And we all know having 3 mechanical thoughts in your head over every shot on the course can only make you worse than you could be.

Erik brought up a good point.  I can definitely run into over-analyzing my own swing and need to just find the priority piece.  Obviously no ones swing is perfect so we can nitpick all we want.  I am still learning and feel that my Understanding step is getting better and better.  I also think no matter how abundant our knowledge is, it's still good to have someone else look at.  I know it works for me.  Very tough to be objective with our own swings.

But when I'm playing I rarely think about my swing.  I might make practice swings where I'm trying to feel something but I feel I do a good job of not worrying about the picture when I play.  That is where the understanding those circular alignments are huge.

If you do ever feel the need to take a lesson I would strongly recommend Dana Dahlquist in Long Beach since you're in LA.  He, (as well as Dave and Erik ) has been a big influence on my Knowing, Understanding and Doing.

[boogielicious]

I've spent a lot of time learning about the swing through reading, watching video of myself and others and being a student with Evolvr.  I understand the physics of the swing (the math part).  I am becoming more proficient in understanding the parts of the swing and knowing why they are needed for better performance, but certainly not expert yet.

The one part I still struggle with the most in the "understanding" category or the transition to the "do it" category, is understanding how it is supposed to feel when I'm doing things right.  I have days when ball striking is excellent and it feels so easy.  Then on other days, whether it's due to body aches or stiffness, nothing feels quite right.  I do drills and sometimes I have the "ah ha" moment, but other times the drills are more difficult than they should be.  Some of my favorite parts in the S&T; book are the players comments on feelings for different parts of the swing.

I am a bit analytical about things like MDL.  Actually, a LOT analytical and I want to have more insight on the feel.  How do we improve our understanding of feel in the Improvement Loop?

This is what I want to work on this winter when it's cold and dark outside.

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by boogielicious

I am a bit analytical about things like MDL.  Actually, a LOT analytical and I want to have more insight on the feel.  How do we improve our understanding of feel in the Improvement Loop?

This is what I want to work on this winter when it's cold and dark outside.

Getting the right feel is part trial and error, it's about finding the feel that translates into changing the picture.  Understanding is about how the swing works as a whole.

[mdl]

Originally Posted by mvmac

If you do ever feel the need to take a lesson I would strongly recommend Dana Dahlquist in Long Beach since you're in LA.  He, (as well as Dave and Erik ) has been a big influence on my Knowing, Understanding and Doing.

Thanks for the recommendation!

[uttexas]

On improving feel: I like the following quote from Hogan: "muscles ain't got no memory they do what I tell them to do.'' Good example of muscle memory here: Contralateral increased strength has been repeatedly shown in unilateral strength training studies. Basically, if you only do right bicep curls for a month, your left bicep also becomes stronger. The right bicep will gain muscle mass and strength. The left bicep will improve in strength (about half as the right trained side) but without a gain in muscle mass. The left bicep gains strength via an increase in motor neuron pooling, excitablity, and output. [URL]http://jap.physiology.org/content/101/5/1514.full[/URL] [URL]http://www.springerlink.com/content/b34w441597u4w324/[/URL] Other example, in strength training, an increase in maximum load moved/force generated significantly increases well before an increase in muscle mass. So, how do we improve muscle memory (feel) for the golf swing? If it is a motor neuron pooling, excitability, and output are involved, the first step is to have a healthy nervous system environment--healthy diet and eliminate neurotoxic substances such as alcohol. Maximize oxygenation of neural tissue (smoking cessation) Multiple studies have shown that muscle memory for a particular muscle movement only improves only if the training is specific. For complex tasks (such as the golf swing), studies suggest that the focus of attention effects motor learning/muscle memory. In the golf swing, a distant external focus would be the target. A close external focus would be the motion of the club. An intermediate external focus would be striking the ball through an imaginary window target 10 yards infront of you. An internal focus would be the motion of the arms. [URL]http://www.insidemoves.org/articles/Golf_and_dexterity.pdf[/URL] When learning a new complex task, I hypothesize that focus should initially be internal, then as the motion is ingrained the focus moves to more and more external.

[saevel25]

I got to ask the lady who does my lunch workouts on monday's and tuesdays, because we do balancing to create links in the neurons of the body. Basically if you balance you got to focus on the whole body, which links it all together. I got to ask about that again, i am just basing this on the fact she mentioned something about the nervous system while the workouts before. But thats my best guess..

I understand the right bicep helping the left bicep. Your not increasing muscle mass on the left side, but your increasing your ability to perform that specific movement better, ie utilizing that muscle group better.

For me, i like the fact that i can take a winter off, because it resets alot of stuff in my swing. Its kinda like purging the system of the bad stuff. Thats why i usually go with slow methodical movements indoors, to really focus on positions in the swing. While i try to regain balanced muscle composition through out the body. Because if you swing right handed, you will work out specific muscles, and you need to work out the opposite to have balance.

I think the best thing to help my swing the past year, was specifically working on balance. standing on one leg, standing on one leg while moving the other leg around. Doing excersizes while standing on one leg, like bicep curls or dumbbell rows. These really helped me get a sense of staying centered while alot of things are going on. It even helped out when its wet out, i have had my right foot slip out from under me in the golf swing before (new spikes to, it was that wet out before i golfed), and i can still hit the ball decent because i can balance on my left leg alone and still hit the ball.

As for muscle memory, your mind can learn a movement better, but its basically using a certain neuron trail more often, so its in  your head rather than your muscles. That's proven by the left side gaining strength with the right working out only, because your mind remembers the movements for both sides.

[mvmac]

Here's a good example of Knowing, Understanding and Doing, oh yeah and trust! [VIDEO]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spyzrIee2wc&feature;=feedu[/VIDEO]

[mchepp]

I am not certain I totally agree here. I think yes, some people do need to know and understand to improve. Curious people are always going to want to understand the "why" of things. I think there are cases where people do not need to understand or know to do. I have watched children for example attempt to mimic another golfer and eventually become quite good without understanding how a ball fades or draws. Certainly one could argue that down the line this golfer may struggle when their feel is off, but I could argue even if you know D-plane you can still miss golf shots.

I feel that golfer can overload on information in today's golfing world. Why is it that this generation which has had all the advances of Trackman and slow motion video has not produced another Hogan or Moe? There could be tons of reasons I know, but it is easy to overload your brain with all the information out there and lose your way.

Instructors on the other hand, I am in complete agreement.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by mchepp

I am not certain I totally agree here. I think yes, some people do need to know and understand to improve. Curious people are always going to want to understand the "why" of things. I think there are cases where people do not need to understand or know to do. I have watched children for example attempt to mimic another golfer and eventually become quite good without understanding how a ball fades or draws. Certainly one could argue that down the line this golfer may struggle when their feel is off, but I could argue even if you know D-plane you can still miss golf shots.

I feel that golfer can overload on information in today's golfing world. Why is it that this generation which has had all the advances of Trackman and slow motion video has not produced another Hogan or Moe? There could be tons of reasons I know, but it is easy to overload your brain with all the information out there and lose your way.

Instructors on the other hand, I am in complete agreement.

I do think that golfer in the first paragraph will struggle when his feel is off. Bubba Watson struggles in such a way. His bad shots are really, really bad. His good shots are great, and he's given interviews where he says working out of a funk is kind of an unknown process for him. He just messes around with stuff until it is better.

Golfers can overload, definitely. But overloading isn't understanding . Understanding simplifies things. It lets you throw away bad or extraneous information. It reduces the possibility of overloading. Any idiot can point out 20 things wrong with their own swing - understanding allows you to prioritize and realize that there's really only two or three main issues, and the rest are compensations stacking on top of each other.

It is easy to lose your way. The person stuck in overloaded mode knows a lot, but doesn't understand it, really.

At least, that's how I see it.