Sequencing

[mvmac]

I played golf yesterday with a friend of my Dad's, Bill, who know's I'm a "Stack and Tilt" guy. Bill was struggling a lot, low slices all day long and was frustrated enough to start asking questions. I never solicit :-) After I hit a shot he commented, "It doesn't look like you lean left on the backswing". Now, I could talk for hours, and have, about people's misconceptions of the S&T; information. I'm just going to delve into why we don't just tilt and what the tilt or lateral flexion is. At set-up(for righties) the left shoulder is higher than the right but at the top of the back swing it's lower. How'd that happen? We tilted left. Some golfer tilt more than others but we all tilt enough to get the forward shoulder lower on the backswing. We (Golf Evolution,S&T;) want a certain amount of tilt to keep the head centered and shoulder turned 90* to the spine. Keeping the head centered simplifies the geometry and makes hitting the ball first easier. I explained to Bill that the "tilt" is one of 3 movements we perform to keep the head centered. We also extend and turn. If we just tilted, lateral flexion, the head would move down and forward. These 3 movements are done AT THE SAME RATES to keep the head from moving and to keep the weight centered. Talking about this yesterday brought to mind a video I did a few months ago about how these 3 pieces effect the motion. [VIDEO]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfZDZYQ66PA[/VIDEO] So, while the S&T; name just involves "tilt" there is much more to it. It is impossible to "feel" all 3 occurring at once but like Dave ad Erik say, "you get some of it for free". Some students need to feel a lot of lateral flexion while others may need to work on the extension piece. It all comes back to fundamental #1, hitting the ball first.

[michaeljames92]

Another great post Mike.

[TN94z]

Really good post!

[The_Pharaoh]

Thanks Mike. Very well explained, as always.

[mvmac]

Thanks very much guys, what's really fun or enlightening is when you start to see this stuff without "trying" to look for it. You'll see a going lift his head on the backswing, and just go, "needs more tilt", or see the guy turn and tilt, head goes down and say to yourself, "more extension". That's what I love about the information, it's about understanding how the swing works.

[bunkerputt]

Keep up the good work Mike. I'm a former example of your #3 swing lacking tilt (except you need more arm lift and lots of timing to prevent hooks )  The terminology frontier is pretty unfair sometimes.  We can say "Keep your head centered", but can't say "You need more tilt", for example.  Such a double standard.  Best to ignore the naysayers and keep doing what's right, IMO.

[mvmac]

Keep up the good work Mike. I'm a former example of your #3 swing lacking tilt (except you need more arm lift and lots of timing to prevent hooks )  The terminology frontier is pretty unfair sometimes.  We can say "Keep your head centered", but can't say "You need more tilt", for example.  Such a double standard.  Best to ignore the naysayers and keep doing what's right, IMO.

Good point. Saying more tilt, TELLS you what you need to do to stay centered. I like that better than saying, "don't move your head".

[sk golf]

Great video Mike

[mvmac]

Saw this and thought I'd share.  This is Dana Dahlquist giving a lesson.  The student is tilting at too fast a rate, trying to get the left shoulder to move back further to stay centered.

[Schrodinger]

To me its the "fourth move" : (never mentioned in the S&T; book...??), the bending of the left knee (RH players), that I find very difficult to

time.

Since the "standing up" move is done by straightening both legs, The move "formerly known as tilting left" is done together with

a bending in the left knee, or ...??

This is also why i have had no success in 3 years trying to learn the S&T; swing.

The timing, the low point, the ball striking etc is controlled by the left knee, not by the hands, or...??

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by Schrodinger

To me its the "fourth move" : (never mentioned in the S&T; book...??), the bending of the left knee (RH players), that I find very difficult to

time.

Since the "standing up" move is done by straightening both legs, The move "formerly known as tilting left" is done together with

a bending in the left knee, or ...??

This is also why i have had no success in 3 years trying to learn the S&T; swing.

The timing, the low point, the ball striking etc is controlled by the left knee, not by the hands, or...??

The changing of the knee flexion is very much described in the book, right loses flex on the backswing, left flexes.  On the downswing the left knee moves forward, in front of the ankle.  This really isn't a move exclusive to S&T;

"Standing up" can be felt in a few different ways, legs extending, squeezing the glutes or raising the belt.  Have you gotten advice from someone that knows the information?  "Trying" it never really works.

Low point control is controlled by having the weight forward, right elbow location and right wrist bend.

[Schrodinger]

Thanks a lot for showing me this video, but it is hard for me to move the left knee forward as much as the man in the clip. With my feet flared outwards like that (> 45°..?) it is almost impossible.

Is it not easier to perform the "jumping up" move if at least one foot is perpendicular to the target line, as stated in Hogans five lessons ..?

I can understand the importance of weight forward and right wrist bend for low point control, but what is the effect of "right elbow location" ..?

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by Schrodinger

Thanks a lot for showing me this video, but it is hard for me to move the left knee forward as much as the man in the clip. With my feet flared outwards like that (> 45°..?) it is almost impossible.

Is it not easier to perform the "jumping up" move if at least one foot is perpendicular to the target line, as stated in Hogans five lessons ..?

Feet are flared about 30*, makes it easier for the left knee to move forward and the right knee to lose flex.  It it's square, the knee is limited in what it can do.  Hogan wanted it perpendicular because he straightened the right leg at too fast a rate earlier in his career.  Too much weight forward too soon.

Originally Posted by Schrodinger

Is it not easier to perform the "jumping up" move if at least one foot is perpendicular to the target line, as stated in Hogans five lessons ..?

I would say it's easier to jump with our left knee pointed outwards rather than inwards.  Right foot turned out makes it easier to roll the foot onto the instep, bank.  Cool pic of Sam Snead "slamming" his feet into the ground.

Originally Posted by Schrodinger

I can understand the importance of weight forward and right wrist bend for low point control, but what is the effect of "right elbow location" ..?

Good question

I lose my right wrist bend because the shoulder tilts are off, right shoulder too high. I have to lengthen out the radius of the swing,  length the right wrist, to hit the ball.

[boogielicious]

Schrodinger,

Agreed that James is very flexible, but he is also exaggerating it for the video.  I took me a little while to get comfortable with the 30 deg angle, but I did.  The other thing the angle helps me is reducing the tendency for the left knee to flex backward toward my right side.  With the angle at ~ 30 deg, you tend to bend it in the direction of the ball or forward of the ball.  This helps keep my weight centered at the top of the backswing.

[mvmac]

Extending, tilting and turning

[Lofty Lefty]

That last post looks great. Just wondering what happens next??

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by Lofty Lefty

That last post looks great. Just wondering what happens next??

Going to do something soon, but this is a great explanation

http://thesandtrap.com/t/54115/weight-forward-and-secondary-axis-tilt

[jmcquade]

When I last made a major swing change I was having trouble hitting the ball flush on a true consistent basis.  My swing coach offered my a simple swing thought that really brought my swing together.  It involves the turning of your wrists to stay on plane.  He told me to imagine that your shaking hands with someone to the right of you on your back swing and again with someone to your left on your follow through after impact.  Really helped me hit the ball flush with a consistent draw.