What would you do if you found the Thief?

[jamo]

If you don't agree, fine. Believe that a club you lost will magically reappear, that everyone is good-hearted and fair, and that the finder will return it. I, however, reside on this planet. And my experience with the inhabitants is it just doesn't work that way.

So because you suspect that people aren't good-hearted, you wouldn't be yourself? If I find a club, I always try to find the owner. If I can't, I'll either give it to the clubhouse, or give the clubhouse my email and phone number, and tell them to give that to anyone who inquires about a lost club. I'm not exactly rolling in dough, but I've got enough golf clubs, and I don't see much of a need to punish a split second of carelessness with a several-hundred-dollar penalty. And it's not always carelessness. I've dropped a club by just missing the exterior putter well, and I've lost putter covers by having them get knocked off when I drive over a pothole. Shit happens. I'm glad that in all of those situations, I either realized I had lost the items, or they were returned to me.

[zipazoid]

Originally Posted by jamo

So because you suspect that people aren't good-hearted, you wouldn't be yourself?

Yet another attempt to put words in my mouth, rather than try to understand my very simple point.

I'm done with this.

[jamo]

Yet another attempt to put words in my mouth, rather than try to understand my very simple point. I'm done with this.

I'm not trying to do that all. Apparently none of us can understand this simple point.

[carrx]

When I was younger, I inherited my first set of clubs from my grandfather, who had passed away.  They were outdated, ill-fitting, and all that, but they included an ORIGINAL bulls-eye putter that he had used for years and years.

I played all that summer (last summer of college), and frequently played alone.  On one of those days, I left the putter on the green (I had chipped in), and came back after the next hole, but it was gone.  I never found it.  It honestly still bums me out to even talk about it.  I just hope that whoever found that putter developed the yips and eventually quit the game. OK, not really...it's a tough dilemma.  If I saw a club I KNEW belonged to me in somebody else's hand, I can't imagine that I would let it go without incident.

Not many things are worth physical conflict, but honor is one of them.  And as a D&D; nerd once told me, there is no honor among thieves.

[camper6]

There is no way you can PROVE someone has your club unless it has distinct markings that can be verified.

[Tomboys]

Originally Posted by zipazoid

My advice to you is be more careful with your clubs.

Well said.  Sometimes the penalty for our carelessness can be steep, but there's a lesson there if a person wants to learn it.  Sure, we can come up with all the penalties we want for these "thieves" that don't turn in lost equipment found on a golf course.  But then again, what's the penalty for being negligent and leaving your stuff behind?  If there's no penalty for that, then what's the impetus to prevent us from being irresponsible with our own property?

[mad max]

Originally Posted by zipazoid

Yet another attempt to put words in my mouth, rather than try to understand my very simple point.

I'm done with this.

I get your point even if no one else does, if you leave a club and it doesn't get returned let that be a lesson to you to take steps so that you don't leave a club behind instead of wasting time thinking about some mysterious "thief" that you want to confront.  It is your fault that you left the club.

[mad max]

Originally Posted by mad max

I get your point even if no one else does, if you leave a club and it doesn't get returned let that be a lesson to you to take steps so that you don't leave a club behind instead of wasting time thinking about some mysterious "thief" that you want to confront.  It is your fault that you left the club.

I am in no way condoning taking clubs that you find on the course.  But you shouldn't leave them in the first place

[camper6]

Point being, if you're careless with your equipment you deserve what you get.

That's the mantra of people that steal clubs.

I followed behind a group where one of the players had obvious mental problems and left a club behind on several holes.

Should I have kept them?

[Paradox]

Originally Posted by zipazoid

Both concepts are simple - don't be careless & don't be a thief. But if I'm not careless in the first place then the theft never happens. Can't see what's so hard to understand about that.

its hard to understand because you're essentially talking out of both sides of your mouth, as they say.

You're 'advocating' personal responsibility but then you're not putting any personal responsibility on the person who picked the club up.  More personal responsibility should be expected of someone who FOUND the club rather then the one who could have innocently forgotten to pick it up.

One is doing something unintentional and the other is doing something intentionally.

[jamo]

If there's no penalty for that, then what's the impetus to prevent us from being irresponsible with our own property?

Who cares? You don't need to take it upon yourself to teach other people a lesson, you're just a rationalizing a way to keep the club and make it seem like you're on the moral high ground.

[rustyredcab]

Originally Posted by Tomboys

Well said.  Sometimes the penalty for our carelessness can be steep, but there's a lesson there if a person wants to learn it.  Sure, we can come up with all the penalties we want for these "thieves" that don't turn in lost equipment found on a golf course.  But then again, what's the penalty for being negligent and leaving your stuff behind?  If there's no penalty for that, then what's the impetus to prevent us from being irresponsible with our own property?

It is getting harder and harder to tell who is being sarcastic.

I'm hoping that Tomboys post is sarcastic and some sort of distorted Ayn Rand morality statement.

[mdl]

Originally Posted by camper6

Point being, if you're careless with your equipment you deserve what you get.

That's the mantra of people that steal clubs.

I followed behind a group where one of the players had obvious mental problems and left a club behind on several holes.

Should I have kept them?

Exactly.  Sounds sort of like, "Well, if she hadn't been so careless and been showing so much leg, the rapist wouldn't have interested in the first place.  Not that raping her was the right, but she was careless with her equipment, so she deserves what she got."

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by mdl

Exactly.  Sounds sort of like, "Well, if she hadn't been so careless and been showing so much leg, the rapist wouldn't have interested in the first place.  Not that raping her was the right, but she was careless with her equipment, so she deserves what she got."

Yup.  I was going to use that exact analogy in my post #78, but went with the unlocked car instead.

[Gresh24]

Originally Posted by mdl

Exactly.  Sounds sort of like, "Well, if she hadn't been so careless and been showing so much leg, the rapist wouldn't have interested in the first place.  Not that raping her was the right, but she was careless with her equipment, so she deserves what she got."

Wow.  Uh, no, NOTHING like that at all...

[zipazoid]

Originally Posted by mdl

Exactly.  Sounds sort of like, "Well, if she hadn't been so careless and been showing so much leg, the rapist wouldn't have interested in the first place.  Not that raping her was the right, but she was careless with her equipment, so she deserves what she got."

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by Gresh24

Wow.  Uh, no, NOTHING like that at all...

That is the logical extension of "you deserve what you get."  He was pointing out that "you deserve what you get" is not the correct mentality.

More specifically, what one "deserves" is clearly a point of contention.  Does a careless female/male who allows their car to run out of gas in a bad neighborhood deserve to be assaulted/battered/raped?  Or do they simply deserve to have to walk to the gas station, or wait for a tow truck/friend to come assist them (which is an inconvenience and potentially has other consequences).

The point many here are trying to make, is that "carelessness" and "negligence" does not deserve to be punished by a criminal act.  Whether that's theft or rape is simply a matter of degrees of the extreme.  Simply put, a person who leaves their club on the side of the green doesn't deserve to have the next person on that green to take it home any more than they deserve to have somebody else pick up said club and beat them over the head with it for leaving it there.

Now, would somebody deserve to have their clubs stolen if they, every night, intentionally left them outside in their empty driveway until the next morning?  That is a better question.

Brandon

[Gresh24]

This is just getting stupid.  To bring up rape at all is completely ridiculous.

It is simple.  In our society today, not everyone is honest and trustworthy and does the right thing.  If I LOSE something, I don't expect it to find it's way back to me.  If I LOST it, I have no one else to blame but myself, regardless of what ultimately happened to whatever I lost.  That seems crystal clear to me.  I have never had a club "stolen" from me because I have never LOST one.

It is not a question of whether a person deserves the potential outcome of his actions, it's simply recognizing that possibility - and the only way to be sure to avoid it is be more careful and responsible yourself.