Slow Play on the PGA Tour, Tiger Shares His Opinion

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by bplewis24

That is startling.  And I'm guessing there will be empirical data to support my assumption that PGA tour players are significantly slower players than LPGA tour players?

No way.  It is clearly the other way around.  The PGA has roughly 40 tournaments a year, and the LPGA has, what 25??  In 4.5 years (lets say 113 tournaments) they've had 9 penalties, which comes out to one penalty every 12.5 tournaments.  The boys, by contrast, average one penalty every 680 tournaments.  So, obviously, the girls, on average, play 54 times slower than the boys.

Hows that for logic?

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Hows that for logic?

Concrete

[RC]

Four hours per round...  That is an unhurried pace that most should be able to adapt too.  On tour, penalty shots and fines ensue and during public play, marshalls escort the players off the course if not playing to a four hour pace -- after one warning.  Taking longer than that is due to an ingrained habit of not paying attention to playing along using common sense and courtesies toward other golfers.  It is really not hard to play in four hours, no matter the slope and degree of difficulty.  Move up a tee and pick up your ball if you cannot play out in at least triple or quadruple bogey.  I've yet to see a tour course one could not play in four hours, and I have played a bunch of them.  Spend more time on the driving range and learning your game's limitation, if that is your excuse.  The majority of other golfers are not out playing hoping one or two guys can hit hero shots 5 percent of the time.  That's my harsh take on this subject.  Get to you ball, figure out the yardage, select a club, and be ready to hit when it is your turn. The wasted time I see in high school and college golf is surely not in the spirit of the game.  It comes from insensity habits permitted by coaches and officials.   And those that want an unhurried, liesurely walk in the park, please do that and not hold up the majority of golfers who are out to play a game on the golf course.  -- I suppose some will not like this post, others will be delighted.

[divotDan]

Would someone ask Tiger if the Tour should also penalize profanity and the throwing of golfclubs?

[bplewis24]

Don't they already?

[Shorty]

Originally Posted by divotDan

Would someone ask Tiger if the Tour should also penalize profanity and the throwing of golfclubs?

Why?

Every time he does it he gets fined.

[bplewis24]

That's what I'd like to call a Red Herring Fail.

Brandon

[jamo]

Would someone ask Tiger if the Tour should also penalize profanity and the throwing of golfclubs?

F**k no. :-P

[Chas]

lol

[AdamsGolfer]

Slow Play On the tour or anywhere is caused by a few things,

1 The  big one Is the Huge concern with etiquette, Guys not going through the shot routine while the other guy is doing his, when two players have a similar range id say a 15yd gap (depending on angles to the pin and other variables of course) even on opposite sides of the fairway, both should be doing the ranging and figuring at the same time.

There is way to much concern with not being a distraction to your opponent, Im not suggesting that being loud or dancing around in someones view is alright, But perfect peripheral vision is a 180 degree field of view so being anywhere outside of that line CANT be a visual distraction, and your not going to stand downrange, and you will hit first if his ball is up-range from you.

And if players cant shut outside distraction they wouldnt be able to play in front of a gallery, because I can guarantee the crowd isnt perfectly still or quiet you can hear caddies yell at people for making noise, and taking pictures, or a cough whatever, Yes people should put there cameras on silent mode, but birds and cars and planes all make noise and its never distracted me, Also the crowd noise at other holes dont seem to be an issue for the players, Tiger Woods' caddy is always bitchin at people for making noise, I think Tiger is just playing like crap and Is blaming everyone but himself for his problems, Once you start nitpicking at noise it does become a distraction. there is a road by the course I play at and people honk just to be dumb and Im never affected by it mid swing or not.

You can line up your own putt as long as your not in peripheral view of someone so anywhere behind them you could do jumping jacks and as long as it was silently they would never know.

2 On the greens the guys that dont finish the 3 foot putts is dumb yes if you will stand on a line to do mark and finish later but id say 75% of the time they should finish.

3 Caddies cause alot of hold ups yes they are a second set of eyes and a help, but the guy should have his little book out at the tee so walking down he can say where the pin is exactly what the green is like and where a good aiming point is, The times when I hear them saying no, hit a 6 a slight fade will bring you in real close, Or you can go with a 5 and lay off a bit and drop it right in blah blah blah, the caddy should range and club and say something if the player is about to bonehead a shot, but telling the player what kind of what kind of shot to hit seems a little crazy and having 3 different solutions to the same shot is just over analyzing.

4 the field size on thursday and friday do make traffic an issue, but on Saturday and Sunday when the field is halved why does it take the same amount of time?  Everyone causes slow play not just a few people, How can "Slow" players be the problem when they are on the on the teebox of every hole while the next group is in the fairway or putting?

[AdamsGolfer]

I forgot to Say Yeah Kevin Na Caused a hold up, but with the issues he was having it could have been alot worse, and he was aware of it, and the last round he played with Kuchar, he was literally Running to the ball just to make up time and or not slow Kuchar down.

Then there is the whole big stink about Morgan Pressel being penalized a stroke for slow play, yeah I get the LPGA tour isnt the same organization as the PGA but if they Will put someone on the clock and then penalize them a stroke in match play In the middle of the event the PGA should have the guts to do the same thing, And I dont think she should have got the penalty or been told the way she was, Golf is a 80% mental game and that is a big blow to your focus and the attitude you have toward the match. It cost her the second half of that match. which shows how much of an impact a 1 stroke penalty makes. Rules are rules but she wasnt slowing anyone down and the wind was whipping all over when she changed clubs. Yeah 50 sec is along time to take to shoot, but It was Munoz that got them on the clock to begin with she even said "I was slow thats why we were timed but once we were on the clock she was the slow one" So because Pressel took a little extra time on one shot she got screwed when the avg time was faster than the person that casued the warning.

Now looking at the rules in the PGA if you are still slow after the warning on the clock , so a warning, being put on the clock, another warning for violating the clock, and then a fine of 5k ,then 15k, then 25k, and 20k for 10 violations in a year in addition to the fines you incurred that year. now lets say you were fined 20k in 15 tourneys for 2 slow play violations and then 20k for being over ten thats 320k for Money list leaders thats a good amount of money but I still dont think guys winning that amount every time they play would be deterred, the guys at the bottom of the money list making 30k a year will not allow themselves to be fined 20k thats 2/3 of what they make (hell 5k is a deterent to someone making 30k), If you did Penalize them 1 stroke for violating the clock after youve been put on it ( so a warning your on the clock then a 1 stroke penalty) then every time after that 2 strokes then 3 then 4 ect you would get the attention of the players, Regardless of what they make, the guys who win millions wouldnt lose a tourney because of a stroke penalty  their ego wouldnt allow it, and the guys actually needing every penny to pay the bills, wont even think about getting on the clock. Instead of the guys with millions paying up and continuing to be slow they would actually make an effort to improve, just like the guy that cant afford a 5k fine

Also the whole putting a group on the clock is insane, If you have a guy who gets up and belts it and then someone who takes there sweet ass time they compensate for each other, and the one time the guy who does play fast wants to wait for the huge gust that just kicked up to calm down, he gets nailed, all for being paired with someone who is slow.

Put individuals that are slow on the clock, dont punish the player with a fast avg pace because he had a tricky lie or an odd distance and took a little extra time to figure out. And dont let the slow guys suck up the time the faster guys dont use.

Pace where I play isnt really an issue because they are on top of it, Its a municipal course but they have marshals riding around enforcing pace or if its a slow day making sure faster groups are allowed to play through, Not only does it make it possible for me to squeeze in 18 more often I can play 27 on days where ive got time its about  31/2  hours give or take 15 min for 18 normally and on a good day its right at 3 hours  , so its more money for the club more enjoyment for the players all around its better, At other courses I will wait for a group for 2 holes and if I wait for them to tee off twice in a row I will tell them Im playing through, obviously if they are waiting on a group as well I wont, but if there is a gap hell yeah Im playing on, more people need to do that and you would be surprised how much faster the people you play through on play, they will keep pace because you gave them a reality check, If you think thats rude try waiting for someone to offer that you play through, it will almost never happen or they will let you on the last hole.

[AdamsGolfer]

Tiger Woods really has no room to talk on etiquette, Id rather have a guy playing a bit slow than someone swearing and kicking clubs and generally being a jerk to fans.

[jamo]

Tiger Woods really has no room to talk on etiquette, Id rather have a guy playing a bit slow than someone swearing and kicking clubs and generally being a jerk to fans.

I disagree. If I'm playing with someone, slow play affects my enjoyment of the round, someone else swearing and kicking clubs does not.

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by AdamsGolfer

Tiger Woods really has no room to talk on etiquette, Id rather have a guy playing a bit slow than someone swearing and kicking clubs and generally being a jerk to fans.

I bet you're really objective, aren't you?

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by jamo

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamsGolfer

Tiger Woods really has no room to talk on etiquette, Id rather have a guy playing a bit slow than someone swearing and kicking clubs and generally being a jerk to fans.

I disagree. If I'm playing with someone, slow play affects my enjoyment of the round, someone else swearing and kicking clubs does not.

Not sure if someone acting like a spoiled brat has a direct effect on my score but it certainly taints my golf experience that day. I don't like playing with immature tantrum throwers. I probably would not like to play with someone like Morgan Pressel either.

[bplewis24]

Hard to say for me.  Slow play would annoy me, but if somebody repeatedly got enraged by their own game, I would probably be uncomfortable around them.  I rarely know what to say in those situations.

Having said that, Woods doesn't really compare to some of the guys I've seen throw fits on the golf course.  This is simply another red herring for people that don't like Tiger.

Brandon

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by bplewis24

Hard to say for me.  Slow play would annoy me, but if somebody repeatedly got enraged by their own game, I would probably be uncomfortable around them.  I rarely know what to say in those situations.

Having said that, Woods doesn't really compare to some of the guys I've seen throw fits on the golf course.  This is simply another red herring for people that don't like Tiger.

Brandon

Yeah, it's all relative. Someone in my group who swears and kicks their club . . . then shoots a 74 . . . I can live with that because it's probably just that one tantrum. Same behaviour after every bad shot from a guy shooting 114? Not so fun.

[AdamsGolfer]

I guess I didn't get my point accross, in a casual game swearing isn't an issue throwing clubs and kicking them is, slow play is also a problem, but its also subjective I've played with guys who get pissed off if they have to wait at all at any time on the course they are also the guys that don't think about anything they just hit it they don't read outta either they just hit em. I am a fast player so I know I will wait more then someone who is an average player but just because I'm waiting dosnt mean the people ahead are slow. They are slow if they don't keep up with the group ahead of them as long as its the same size. I don't dislike tiger he can be a hell of a golfer he can have a great attitude when he's winning, but he has a terrible attitude when he doesn't get his way, I don't like playing with anyone like that. I was trying to say that throwing clubs and constant swearing is worse for the PGA tour than slow play with 18 groups of 4 on the course at the same time. Growing up I remember watching golf with my dad and you wouldn't hear swearing because there weren't nearly as many mics out, but you could still see the occasional mouthing of certain words, almost every time the Mic is near tiger you hear him swearing continually, and when the cameras on him you can see him mouth every curse word I know. There are kids out there listening to that and he is supposed to be a role model , just like all the other sports stars that behave badly a small fine isn't enough I singled out tiger because he is the best known and most watched