2012 US Open at Olympic Club Discussion Thread

[iacas]

Originally Posted by scottyjoe145

I will preface this comment with a disclaimer:  PGA Tour golfers are the best of the best.  They are the elite.

However...  there might be more to it than that.  They have a world of technology and equipment at their disposal, a significant amount of time on their hands to practice, a caddy that is extremely knowledgeable about the course and all things golf, & (most importantly) the money to go whenever and wherever they want.  You would be surprised at how many people could actually play at that same level if given the right tools to do the job.  They play a completely different game from us because it's what they do for a living.  I bet I know 4 or 5 guys that, if given the same lifestyle and unlimited funds, could easily play at their level.  They are good, but its not as rare as you would think.

I disagree completely.

My evidence? The thousands of great golfers who work at it non-stop, play mini tours, even the Nationwide Tour, and still never get there. Most of them - like most PGA Tour players - had the same kinds of childhoods as many of us here.

[Mr3Wiggle]

Originally Posted by scottyjoe145

I will preface this comment with a disclaimer:  PGA Tour golfers are the best of the best.  They are the elite.

However...  there might be more to it than that.  They have a world of technology and equipment at their disposal, a significant amount of time on their hands to practice, a caddy that is extremely knowledgeable about the course and all things golf, & (most importantly) the money to go whenever and wherever they want.  You would be surprised at how many people could actually play at that same level if given the right tools to do the job.  They play a completely different game from us because it's what they do for a living.  I bet I know 4 or 5 guys that, if given the same lifestyle and unlimited funds, could easily play at their level.  They are good, but its not as rare as you would think.

Yes, there are many exceptions to my statement, Tiger & Jack for example, who truly are talented beyond what is normal.

How many tour events have you been to in person?

[Infamous 273]

Originally Posted by scottyjoe145

I will preface this comment with a disclaimer:  PGA Tour golfers are the best of the best.  They are the elite.

However...  there might be more to it than that.  They have a world of technology and equipment at their disposal, a significant amount of time on their hands to practice, a caddy that is extremely knowledgeable about the course and all things golf, & (most importantly) the money to go whenever and wherever they want.  You would be surprised at how many people could actually play at that same level if given the right tools to do the job.  They play a completely different game from us because it's what they do for a living.  I bet I know 4 or 5 guys that, if given the same lifestyle and unlimited funds, could easily play at their level.  They are good, but its not as rare as you would think.

Yes, there are many exceptions to my statement, Tiger & Jack for example, who truly are talented beyond what is normal.

there are currently 125 players on the PGA tour who are fully exempt.  even if all 125 players were american (which of course, they are not), that would balance out to far less than 3 players per state.  i find it hard to believe you know 4-5 people that could "easily play at their level" if the stars were aligned properly.

[scottyjoe145]

Originally Posted by iacas

I disagree completely.

My evidence? The thousands of great golfers who work at it non-stop, play mini tours, even the Nationwide Tour, and still never get there. Most of them - like most PGA Tour players - had the same kinds of childhoods as many of us here.

I realize I'm walking a fine line here.  I make it sound as if they are privileged because of their current environment, and while that is somewhat true, it's not what got them there in the first place.  Like I said, they are the best of the best.  However, that doesn't mean they're the only ones with that kind of talent.

While what you said is true, there are also "thousands" on the other side of the argument...  people who can play their ass off that do not have the time or money to get any better.  I happen to know (very personally) two 30-something age guys, very athletic, got serious about the game later in life, married with kids, job, etc...   and they play par golf every time they tee it up, at every course they tee it up at.  We've had this discussion over many a beer, and the consensus is that we'd like to have the same deal the PRO's have.  I mean hell, it must be nice to just wake up and play golf all day...  with the newest shit...  on the best courses.

My point is that their kind of talent just isn't as rare as you think.  There's what, 250-300 guys can play the PGA tour?  You mean to tell me that those are the only living people in the US with the talent to play at that level...  please.  I'd bet that if given the right circumstances there are many more capable of that level of golf.  That's all I'm saying.

[scottyjoe145]

Originally Posted by Mr3Wiggle

How many tour events have you been to in person?

Enuff to see them miss the same shots, and make the same mistakes I do.  They are not flawless...

[Wally Fairway]

Originally Posted by scottyjoe145

I realize I'm walking a fine line here.  I make it sound as if they are privileged because of their current environment, and while that is somewhat true, it's not what got them there in the first place.  Like I said, they are the best of the best.  However, that doesn't mean they're the only ones with that kind of talent.

While what you said is true, there are also "thousands" on the other side of the argument...  people who can play their ass off that do not have the time or money to get any better.  I happen to know (very personally) two 30-something age guys, very athletic, got serious about the game later in life, married with kids, job, etc...   and they play par golf every time they tee it up, at every course they tee it up at.  We've had this discussion over many a beer, and the consensus is that we'd like to have the same deal the PRO's have.  I mean hell, it must be nice to just wake up and play golf all day...  with the newest shit...  on the best courses.

My point is that their kind of talent just isn't as rare as you think.  There's what, 250-300 guys can play the PGA tour?  You mean to tell me that those are the only living people in the US with the talent to play at that level...  please.  I'd bet that if given the right circumstances there are many more capable of that level of golf.  That's all I'm saying.

Playing par golf, on a non-tour course, will not get you any money on the PGA tour.

I've played with a buddy (club pro) and caddied for him at a couple of Nationwide qualifiers. Unless he is off his game, he will shoot 68-69 (or better) on the local courses we play, he struggles to break 74-75 in qualifying (could be nerves, could be the course set up) but that is not getting him anywhere near the Nationwide event, let alone the PGA tour.

The setup for a tour event (fairway width, rough length, green speed) is far more difficult than anything you will find locally - unless you are playing Oakland Hills, Pine Valley, Oakmont, Whistling Straits or Beth Page Black with your buddies

[scottyjoe145]

Originally Posted by Infamous 273

there are currently 125 players on the PGA tour who are fully exempt.  even if all 125 players were american (which of course, they are not), that would balance out to far less than 3 players per state.  i find it hard to believe you know 4-5 people that could "easily play at their level" if the stars were aligned properly.

How many guys in the history of golf have received fully exempt status via Q-school?  One week of their life they played better than the rest.  That doesn't mean they are the best in the world...  it means they kept it together for one week.

The best in the world is determined over a period of time...  a career...  in which they get all kinds of nice shit and perks that we don't get to enjoy.  There are many out there that do not have this luxury.  You mean to tell me that Dennis Miller and Casey Martin flew into Olympic Club a few months back and played a few practice rounds??  Or maybe they got there early last week and started practice early.

[scottyjoe145]

Originally Posted by Wally Fairway

Playing par golf, on a non-tour course, will not get you any money on the PGA tour.

I've played with a buddy (club pro) and caddied for him at a couple of Nationwide qualifiers. Unless he is off his game, he will shoot 68-69 (or better) on the local courses we play, he struggles to break 74-75 in qualifying (could be nerves, could be the course set up) but that is not getting him anywhere near the Nationwide event, let alone the PGA tour.

The setup for a tour event (fairway width, rough length, green speed) is far more difficult than anything you will find locally - unless you are playing Oakland Hills, Pine Valley, Oakmont, Whistling Straits or Beth Page Black with your buddies

I'm a member at TPC Southwind

[Infamous 273]

Originally Posted by scottyjoe145

How many guys in the history of golf have received fully exempt status via Q-school?  One week of their life they played better than the rest.  That doesn't mean they are the best in the world...  it means they kept it together for one week.

The best in the world is determined over a period of time...  a career...  in which they get all kinds of nice shit and perks that we don't get to enjoy.  There are many out there that do not have this luxury.  You mean to tell me that Dennis Miller and Casey Martin flew into Olympic Club a few months back and played a few practice rounds??  Or maybe they got there early last week and started practice early.

None.

The point of my post was to shed some perspective related to how rare it is for a golfer to play on tour.  You said, "they are good, but it's not as rare as you would think."  I disagreed.

Edit: From wiki-" Final Stage: One tournament played over six rounds in late November-early December. The field consists of Second Stage winners and players who received exemptions into the Final Stage. The top 25 players, plus ties, earn PGA Tour cards for the following year. Their priority ranking for purposes of tournament entry is 24; this ranking enables them to enter most full-field events on the PGA Tour, but not more prestigious stops on the tour unless a substantial number of players in higher categories skip the events."

[Wally Fairway]

Originally Posted by scottyjoe145

I'm a member at TPC Southwind

Well that makes it easier then - so you are saying that you know guys who can shoot +1 or better, from the tips with the tour set up .... just to make the cut, and shoot 4 68's to win the tournament.

So if they can do it and it is on their home course, what did they shoot in qualifying?

[scottyjoe145]

Originally Posted by Wally Fairway

Well that makes it easier then - so you are saying that you know guys who can shoot +1 or better, from the tips with the tour set up .... just to make the cut, and shoot 4 68's to win the tournament.

So if they can do it and it is on their home course, what did they shoot in qualifying?

The qualifier is for 2 spots in the field I think...  maybe one.  They miss it of course, usually to a PRO or a CHAMPIONS tour guy...  which usually sparks the whole bitch session of what they could do if they made it their profession.  Obviously it's their opinion that they could make it.  It makes for a good discussion.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by scottyjoe145

I realize I'm walking a fine line here.  I make it sound as if they are privileged because of their current environment, and while that is somewhat true, it's not what got them there in the first place.  Like I said, they are the best of the best.  However, that doesn't mean they're the only ones with that kind of talent.

While what you said is true, there are also "thousands" on the other side of the argument...  people who can play their ass off that do not have the time or money to get any better.  I happen to know (very personally) two 30-something age guys, very athletic, got serious about the game later in life, married with kids, job, etc...   and they play par golf every time they tee it up, at every course they tee it up at.  We've had this discussion over many a beer, and the consensus is that we'd like to have the same deal the PRO's have.  I mean hell, it must be nice to just wake up and play golf all day...  with the newest shit...  on the best courses.

My point is that their kind of talent just isn't as rare as you think.  There's what, 250-300 guys can play the PGA tour?  You mean to tell me that those are the only living people in the US with the talent to play at that level...  please.  I'd bet that if given the right circumstances there are many more capable of that level of golf.  That's all I'm saying.

I think you're way off here.

It's too bad we can't arrange it, because I'd guarantee that your two buddies wouldn't make the Nationwide Tour - they might not even win a mini-tour event - if you gave them five years to do nothing but practice golf.

Now if you're saying that there are people out there "with the talent" who maybe even never played golf or never took it at all seriously, etc. then that's another thing altogether. And your definition of "many more" is probably not the same as mine, either.

But no, absolutely not. I don't think you properly appreciate the difference in talent between a PGA Tour player and your "very personally" close friends. The gap between a Tour Pro and a scratch golfer is bigger than the gap between scratch and a guy who barely breaks 100.

[apgolf]

Originally Posted by scottyjoe145

The qualifier is for 2 spots in the field I think...  maybe one.  They miss it of course, usually to a PRO or a CHAMPIONS tour guy...  which usually sparks the whole bitch session of what they could do if they made it their profession.  Obviously it's their opinion that they could make it.  It makes for a good discussion.

Yeah Right on Erik, the closer you get to the tour standard the more you can appreciate how very good the tour players are (took me a long time to work this out). I'm playing off scratch and I know that I would be around 4 shots away from the Tour Standard (4 shots over four rounds is 16 shots!).

I think the vast majority of people growing up in the US, Australia, UK and Canada have had a chance to play any ball sport as much as they want. If you are good enough it is something one pursues - because we all like doing things that we are good at.

[apgolf]

Yeah, Right on there, Tiger, Luuuuuke and The Kooch should all be there or there about's. Should be a great week. And go the Ozzies!!!

[iacas]

Originally Posted by apgolf

Yeah Right on Erik, the closer you get to the tour standard the more you can appreciate how very good the tour players are (took me a long time to work this out). I'm playing off scratch and I know that I would be around 4 shots away from the Tour Standard (4 shots over four rounds is 16 shots!).

I think the vast majority of people growing up in the US, Australia, UK and Canada have had a chance to play any ball sport as much as they want. If you are good enough it is something one pursues - because we all like doing things that we are good at.

If you are a scratch player basically you're more than 4 shots away per round. The typical PGA Tour course setup has a course rating of 76 to 78. So you'd shoot 77 in half of your rounds (who knows what you'd shoot the other half!). Yet the average score would probably be closer to 71 or 72, while your average would be in the 80, 81 range.

[scottyjoe145]

Originally Posted by iacas

I think you're way off here.

It's too bad we can't arrange it, because I'd guarantee that your two buddies wouldn't make the Nationwide Tour - they might not even win a mini-tour event - if you gave them five years to do nothing but practice golf.

I don't think you properly appreciate the difference in talent between a PGA Tour player and your "very personally" close friends. The gap between a Tour Pro and a scratch golfer is bigger than the gap between scratch and a guy who barely breaks 100.

The gap is numerically bigger...  yes.  I could teach a guy that shoots 100 to hit his driver in the fairway and he'll shave off 8 strokes at least.  On the flip side, there's no physical way a scratch golfer can shave 8 strokes off in any time frame.  On that we agree.

It is a shame that we can't arrange it, because I'd guarantee that given 5 years and unlimited funds, I myself could make the Nationwide, if not the PGA tour.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by scottyjoe145

It is a shame that we can't arrange it, because I'd guarantee that given 5 years and unlimited funds, I myself could make the Nationwide, if not the PGA tour.

Good post. It clarifies quite clearly how far off you are. Thank you.

[ApocG10]

Originally Posted by scottyjoe145

It is a shame that we can't arrange it, because I'd guarantee that given 5 years and unlimited funds, I myself could make the Nationwide, if not the PGA tour.

If you truly believed that for one second, you would do it. I know if I thought I could make the tour, i'd leave everything else behind (except for my wife).