65/20/15 Practice Ratios: Where to Devote Your Practice Time

[iacas]

GoFIR%: 35 (recent - 37) ~ 6.31 GoF / round     GIR%: 22

PPGIR: 2.41 (recent - 2.32)     PPmGIR: 1.86 (recent - 1.30)     PPR: 35.7

You're still losing far more strokes by not hitting greens, but your putting is terrible too. Averaging nearly 2.5 putts (or more than 2 at all)?

[natureboy]

You're still losing far more strokes by not hitting greens, but your putting is terrible too. Averaging nearly 2.5 putts (or more than 2 at all)?

Yes, that is why I am working on my lag putting & putting in general.

More strokes relative to par you mean? I was thinking of the 'formula' of 95 - 2 * GIR as likely score. I am well above my 'potential' according to this formula with a recent scoring average around 93. Remember, I agree with the premise of the thread, but think I have a glaring short game weakness.

As I said I expect this is because I started working much more on full swing which is now 'decent' (by my standards). I didn't grow up playing the game so the putting & short game that many golfers develop sort of automatically isn't there to lean on.

Since I am mostly satisfied with where my long game is for my immediate goal of breaking 90, what do you see as a good ratio in the short term to 'catch up' my pitching & chipping / putting and address the glaring weakness?

What's good practice for developing distance feel on 20-70 yard pitches?

[mvmac]

I was thinking of the 'formula' of 95 - 2 * GIR as likely score. I am well above my 'potential' according to this formula with a recent scoring average around 93.

No formulas, keep it simple, for long term improvement, just hit more greens

What's good practice for developing distance feel on 20-70 yard pitches?

Get your technique better to make sure contact is consistent. Then it's much easier to gauge distances. Erik and Dave get more into the details of distance control with wedges in the LSW book.

[natureboy]

[QUOTE name="iacas" url="/t/58816/65-20-15-practice-ratios-where-to-devote-your-practice-time/432#post_938090"]   To be fair I think he was talking about my 80-84% numbers. The point of those was to illustrate how much of a waste of time it would be to track what your current "weakness" is (not to mention how that would literally be impossible) and work on that… and how even if you were able to do that (you can't possibly measure things to that degree), you'd probably end up close to 65/25/10 anyway. But you're right that 65/25/10 is based on: [LIST=1] [*] Where shots are generally gained or lost. [*] How relatively easy or difficult the skills are to improve. [*] A golfer without a glaring weakness… in which case everyone agrees they should work on that first, with up to 100% effort. [/LIST] You're right that those numbers aren't "made up" at all. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE name="mvmac" url="/t/58816/65-20-15-practice-ratios-where-to-devote-your-practice-time/486#post_1066674"]   No formulas, keep it simple, for long term improvement, just hit more greens ;-) Get your technique better to make sure contact is consistent. Then it's much easier to gauge distances. Erik and Dave get more into the details of distance control with wedges in the LSW book.   [CONTENTEMBED=/t/39411/quickie-pitching-video-golf-pitch-shot-technique layout=inline]​[/CONTENTEMBED]  [/QUOTE] I think #3 in top quote is what I was looking for. I had thought you would advise some 'maintenance' ratio for full shots. I consider my pitching technique is actually decent for my experience. What I lack is feel of the 'weight' of abbreviated swings within 20-70 yards consistently (and sometimes mental block in not committing to swing through on course vs. range). Similar issue with putts (distance control / length of stroke / 'weight' feel of through stroke). I know experience (hitting more shots / time on course) will help, but hoped experienced players would have some tips for making the process more efficient.

[mvmac]

I consider my pitching technique is actually decent for my experience. What I lack is feel of the 'weight' of abbreviated swings within 20-70 yards consistently (and sometimes mental block in not committing to swing through on course vs. range). Similar issue with putts (distance control / length of stroke / 'weight' feel of through stroke). I know experience (hitting more shots / time on course) will help, but hoped experienced players would have some tips for making the process more efficient.

You basically manage your distances by varying the length of your backswing and the speed and length of your downswing/follow-through.

[dfreuter415]

Originally Posted by iacas

Them's the facts. I haven't shared them with you here, but they're out there, and I encourage you to look them up. Boiled down, they back my theory of the best way to divvy up your practice time:

Spend 15% of your practice time working on putting skills.

Spend 20% of your practice time working on short game skills.

Spend 65% of your practice time working on the full swing skills.

And when you practice, make it dedicated, good practice. Don't just aimlessly whack balls, whether you're on the putting green, the short game area, or on the practice range with a driver in your hands.

Great advice about dedicated practice. I coached high school junior varsity golf for a number of years and this was one of the main points that I used to try and convince the guys that if they ever wanted to play on the varsity, that they had to practice "smart" (dedicated practice, that is).

I agree with your percentages of practice time. However, as one gets older, sometimes it is physically impossible to dedicate 65% of your practice time working on the full swing. I have been golfing more than 50 years, and about 4 years ago I found that the hours that I happily put in on the range hitting my full swing shots was no longer possible because of the aches and pains associated with old age. My percentages are now probably 20% full swing, 30% short game, and 50% putting. So far, it has been successful for me, as I have accomplished my goal of maintaining a single digit handicap this year. My number of fairways have improved with my shorter distances off of the tee. In addition, I have been advocating the USGA's "Tee it Forward" and been playing more senior tees this summer; thus, I am still hitting the same or shorter irons on my approach shots, and hitting more greens in regulation. And, since I have been working half of the time on my putting, my number of putts per round have remained constant.

How would you divide the percentages of practice time for those of us in our 60's and 70's?

[iacas]

How would you divide the percentages of practice time for those of us in our 60's and 70's?

The same.

65% "Full Swing Practice" does not mean "making full swings smashing balls."

You can do a lot of "full swing practice" work in a mirror, in your living room, etc.

[mvmac]

How would you divide the percentages of practice time for those of us in our 60's and 70's?

Just to add to @iacas 's post.

[iacas]

http://lowestscorewins.com/members/identifying-a-glaring-weakness

New member content that clearly allows you to identify a glaring weakness in your putting or short game.

Suffice to say this is the best definition of "glaring weakness" @david_wedzik and I feel is possible, given the variables, and encourage all LSW members to read it.

If you haven't bought Lowest Score Wins , you cannot gain access to the article, but you can if you buy a copy .

[mvmac]

http://lowestscorewins.com/members/identifying-a-glaring-weakness

New member content that clearly allows you to identify a glaring weakness in your putting or short game.

Suffice to say this is the best definition of "glaring weakness" @david_wedzik and I feel is possible, given the variables, and encourage all LSW members to read it.

If you haven't bought Lowest Score Wins, you cannot gain access to the article, but you can if you buy a copy.

Nice article. I like the calculation part and using the PGA Tour ceiling.

[MConstantineJr]

I hit the range about 8 times to every 1 outing in which I usually hit 200 plus balls per range session. I start with my Gap wedge. When I'm grooving that I move to my 9 or PW. When I'm grooving that I move to an 8 or 7 and continue this throughout the bag. When I get through the back I grab the scorecard and play a mock round with whatever energy I have left if any. Once in a while I'll start with my long irons and work my way down to Gap and then my woods and hybrids. I may actually switch to this method as I find it easier to start grooving long irons right off the bat than I do short irons for some reason.

[boogielicious]

http://lowestscorewins.com/members/identifying-a-glaring-weakness

New member content that clearly allows you to identify a glaring weakness in your putting or short game.

Suffice to say this is the best definition of "glaring weakness" @david_wedzik and I feel is possible, given the variables, and encourage all LSW members to read it.

If you haven't bought Lowest Score Wins, you cannot gain access to the article, but you can if you buy a copy.

Nice article.  The grey type is a little hard to read for older eyes though.

[iacas]

Nice article.  The grey type is a little hard to read for older eyes though.

It's darker now.

[Ernest Jones]

Damnit! I don't remember the freakin' password and the "Book" is upstairs in the bathroom where my wife is currently taking care of business. Can I can get a PM?

[iacas]

Damnit! I don't remember the freakin' password and the "Book" is upstairs in the bathroom where my wife is currently taking care of business. Can I can get a PM?

No. That's not the password. That's the pass phrase that lets you create an account. Your password is then emailed to you.

This also isn't the thread for basic tech support or site requests. :)

[Coldspiderrave]

I've been working off a theory for awhile now, and I've talked with a lot of people about it. I've charted how much time the average PGA Tour player spends doing things, I've talked with coaches and instructors at all levels. I've talked with good and in some cases great players. Nothing yet has dissuaded me from thinking what I'm about to tell you. If anything, it's firmed up my belief. I'm still leaving the door open to the possibility that what I'm about to say still needs to be tweaked, but I think at worst it's pretty close. What am I talking about? Try this on for size: Unless you have a glaring weakness or a facet of your game which far outshines the others, you should spend 65% of your time practicing the full swing, 20% of your time practicing the short game, and 15% of your time practicing putting. By "full swing" I mean every shot that uses full swing mechanics. This includes all shots over about 100 yards as well as some of the 1/2 and 3/4 that employ full-swing mechanics. By "short game" I mean everything else inside of about 100 yards that isn't putting. And by putting I mean putting. Duh. :-) Now, people who have argued against me on this will talk about how "60% of your shots are from within 100 yards of the green." That's great and all, but if you remove short putts from the equation the number drops significantly. Still, the number is around 40% for "short game + putting" and 40% for the full swing, so why have I said 65/20/15? Because working back from the putting green to the tee, putting is simple. It's a relatively easy motion that does not take a lot of time to master. The mechanics are simpler, the requirements simpler, and the ceiling is more severe. If you're making half of your six footers (on bumpier, slower greens than those seen on the PGA Tour), that's all you need to play golf on the PGA Tour, so time spent practicing 20 footers ([URL=http://thesandtrap.com/t/51757/pga-tour-putts-gained-make-percentage-stats]which are made about 14% on the PGA Tour[/URL], so you should expect to make about one in ten) is time better spent doing something else. Moving back farther from the green, a good bit more time can be spent trying not to leave yourself a 20-footer for par , and working on the short game. I say you should practice your short game 2.5 times as much as your putting. Learn a few basic shots - a pitch, a chip, a bunker shot (which is just a variation of the pitch for many), and maybe a specialty shot or three (a bladed wedge from the fringe, a high flop, and a low checking shot). Variations of those will cover virtually every other shot you can imagine, and if you practice a few shots here and there from some odd lies, you'll do just fine. Of course, you'll do even better if you're not having to use your short game for very much - better still to hit the green in regulation. There's a reason they say "two things don't last very long: dogs who chase cars and golfers who putt for pars." That takes us out to full swing range, and statistics show that the long game - driving the ball in play and hitting greens (particularly from longer distances) is absolutely crucial to playing good golf. There's a reason there's a formula out there that approximates your score by taking 95 - (2 x GIR). Hitting greens is the single biggest correlation to scoring well, and the only way to hit greens is to have a full swing that works - twice on average. The full swing is also orders of magnitude more complex and difficult to master than a putting stroke or a pitching motion. [rule] Now, before everyone gets bent out of shape, note that I'm talking about time spent practicing each of these things, so the numbers aren't quite as slanted as you might think just by looking at "65/20/15." For example, because putting is so simple and because the balls are typically within 20 feet of you, you can hit perhaps four putts per minute. On the short game, because you have to round up some golf balls from farther distances, and take a few more practice strokes to feel the ground, you have to clean your club, etc. you can hit perhaps two balls per minute. On the driving range, I'll often hit balls as slowly as one every four to five minutes, but let's say you're not quite as deliberate or don't use quite as many practice motions as I do, and call it 0.75 balls per minute. Multiplying the balls per minute by the time spent, we get numbers that look like this: Putting: 15 minutes * 3 balls/minute = 45 balls Short Game: 20 minutes * 2 balls/minute = 40 balls Full Swing: 65 minutes * 0.75 balls/minute = 48.75 balls So really, this works out to spending almost an equal amount of time on each of the three sections of the game, with slightly less spent on putting (and, really, this still makes sense because the putting stroke is relatively simple ). Note, too, that I'm talking about good practice. I'm not talking about whacking some balls on the green towards some holes and calling it "practice." I'm talking about working on the skills of putting (starting the ball on-line, controlling the distance the ball rolls, and reading greens properly). I'm talking about working on the skills of a good short game with drills - landing balls on targets, taking the same club and varying the height of some shots, one-handed pitching drills, etc. I'm talking about working on drills with the full swing, deliberate, good practice, and not just stepping up and smacking ball after ball during the full swing 65% of your practice time. [rule] Now, when I talk about this someone will invariably say something like "I practice my short game religiously and my full swing stinks and I still shoot 82 most days!" They'll remember the one round they made everything or chipped close or in a few times and how it "saved" a bad round. To the first guy, consider how good he'd be if he could marry that short game with a long game that didn't lean on it so much. To the second guy, you remember that round because it's an anomaly, and because you hit the ball badly enough that you needed miracle short game shots just to shoot around your typical score! The stats and studies don't lie. I get that a six-foot putt that you miss counts the same as a drive you put into the right rough. But the odds state very plainly that a six-foot putt is not nearly as damaging to your score as a miss green, and a missed green is not nearly as damaging to your score as a missed tee shot. Them's the facts. I haven't shared them with you here, but they're out there, and I encourage you to look them up. Boiled down, they back my theory of the best way to divvy up your practice time: [LIST] [*] Spend 15% of your practice time working on putting skills. [*] Spend 20% of your practice time working on short game skills. [*] Spend 65% of your practice time working on the full swing skills. [/LIST] What's nifty is that you can do a surprising amount of all of this work at home, in your back yard, on your living room carpet, or with a mirror or wiffle balls. And when you practice, make it dedicated, good practice . Don't just aimlessly whack balls, whether you're on the putting green, the short game area, or on the practice range with a driver in your hands. [rule] 2014-04-08: Renamed 65/20/15 (it was 65/25/10). Changes outlined in [URL=http://thesandtrap.com/t/58816/65-25-10-practice-ratios-where-to-devote-your-practice-time/468#post_973758]post #471[/URL].

Ok I only read your first post, and plan to read on, but I hope somewhere in the next 500 posts you discuss this fancy at home practice as well as good range practice, in detail. I would be most gracious. Great article though!!! And I shall now read on...

[DrvFrShow]

Home practice: putt balls on the carpet into an empty can. That's about the extent of it. I don't have a 12' ceiling. I have the break in the rug down.

[PooN]

I think I would disagree with this a bit.  I think 15+ handicappers might benefit from this since putting the ball in play is a bit more critical in the early stage of one's golf game.

I think once you get your full swing at least a bit under control you may want to look more at a 45/40/15 ratio.  I spend about an hour on chipping/pitching, 15 minutes on putting, then go spend about an hour on full swing when I hit the range and I feel like I am right where I should be once I hit the course.  I also think once you are under a 15 handicap you should play WAYYYYY more than you practice.  Like practice once every 5-10 rounds (with exception of practice green chipping/putting and a few warmup balls on the range before a round).

Lower 'cappers, am I off base here?