Jump to content
Note: This thread is 1514 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Recommended Posts

Ha!  It was the 10th hole, and I had been playing very mediocre-ly , and figured if there was ever a time to try something daring, that was the time.  Wasn't going to be a great round, wasn't playing for money, so what the heck, right?

So I did exactly what you would do.   Pulled out a 6 iron (because I was afraid a 5 iron would be too low) and tried to "kick" a field goal through this window right here:

The red "U" at the top were the goal posts, the blue line is the flag and the red box is the extent of the green.  I hit it well but pulled it a teeny bit, heard it clip a leaf, which didn't really affect it much, and it ended up just short of the green, front left.    I "two-putted" for par from there.

Obviously, it was a pretty stupid play, but sometimes playing smart is boring.    And it sure was fun to pull it off!  (Would never try it when it mattered though.  Would have punched out left - @mdl I don't think it was possible to hit a club under the first branches and over the second one - and just settled for the likely bogey.

I would have done the same thing. I would see that gap on the left and  go, "I can get that underneath that and run it up there." If you even want a lower ball flight, take a 3 wood and just do a chippy punch shot. Hinge and slap the ball, really produces a low runner. You learn to get creative were I have been.

Matt Dougherty, P.E.
 fasdfa dfdsaf 

What's in My Bag
Driver; :pxg: 0311 Gen 5,  3-Wood: 
:titleist: 917h3 ,  Hybrid:  :titleist: 915 2-Hybrid,  Irons: Sub 70 TAIII Fordged
Wedges: :edel: (52, 56, 60),  Putter: :edel:,  Ball: :snell: MTB,  Shoe: :true_linkswear:,  Rangfinder: :leupold:
Bag: :ping:

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Moderator
Obviously, it was a pretty stupid play, but sometimes playing smart is boring.  :-P   And it sure was fun to pull it off!

On the contrary, it was obviously a brilliant play! Risky, but it paid off, and now you know you can hit this shot for the next time you need to make par and it does matter. Can't learn to hit heroic escape shots unless you try, right?

Bill

“By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.” - Confucius

My Swing Thread

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

I probably never would have considered punching out.  I would have gone above and right of the tree the whole way, mostly because my natural shape is a high draw, and keeping it low is not something I'm good at.  Also, screwing up the punch-out and clipping a branch would have resulted in a worse "miss" than clipping one of the trees above, ...or at least no better.

Brandon a.k.a. Tony Stark

-------------------------

The Fastest Flip in the West


I'm not really sure what to think about my game lately.  I still feel like it's improving, however, it's not really showing up in the handicap.  The reason I think it's improving, though, is that what I now consider my "bad" rounds all seem to be a lot closer to my good rounds than they used to be.  I shot an 83 at a fairly difficult new course last week.  All in all, that doesn't seem bad.  But a couple of my misses were inexcusable.

-The first fairway I hit (5th hole) ended up being a double bogey.  I missed the green, like an idiot, from 130 yards.  Then followed that up by trying to get cute with a bunker shot, thus creating another bunker shot.

-On the following hole I had a 75 yard shot into a peninsula green, so, of course, I overcooked it into the water for another double.

-I snap hooked a drive on the next hole OB/lost for a third straight double.

-Then hooked another into the cacti on the 10th hole, leading to my fourth and final double of the day.

The reason why the hooks stopped is because I finally realized I was allowing my grip to creep a little strong, so I corrected it.

So, on one hand, an 83 with 4 double bogeys isn't bad, but on the other hand, take back those two approaches and two drives and, all of a sudden, that 83 is a 75, or even a 74.

I feel like I'm really close ..... and also really, really far. :loco:

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • 3 weeks later...

So I posted this in the "Best shot of the week" thread a few weeks ago:

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

520 yard par 5, dead into a 20-25 mph wind. For kicks I attempt a "stinger" shot off the tee. With driver, I put the ball back 6" in my stance, and I hit it perfectly as planned. It did not get more than 30-35 feet off the ground at any point, drew slightly, and finished dead in the middle of the fairway, 259 yards from the tee. :). (Made par)

Then in our outing last week I tried a similar shot on 17 heading dead into the wind.  Same result.  Again, on 18, same shot, this one not hit perfectly - a little too far back in my stance and it was about 2 feet off the ground for the first 50 yards - but still ended up in the middle of the fairway 230-250 yards out there.

So now I'm thinking:  If I can hit it this straight while keeping it low, then why am I ever trying to hit it high?  Since then, I've spent some time at the range comparing the two types of drives;

  1. Normal shot, teed up high, out near my left toe, looking to catch it on the upswing for minimum spin and maximum distance.
  2. "Stinger" shot, ball teed up much lower (the top of the ball is level with or just a pinch above the top of the driver at address) and back inside my left heel.

The results have been the same each time;  the "normal" shot flies much higher, and when struck well does go farther, but with the tendency for a wide dispersion.  The "Stinger" shot seems to go much straighter, obviously much lower, and a little shorter, however, and this is important, not nearly as much shorter as I'd have expected.  Good drives at my range tend to carry to 250-260, then roll out to 260-275; with the stinger shot they were carrying anywhere from 220-240, but rolling much further.  I'd estimate (if range balls are to be trusted) that the difference in the two styles when comparing really good shots might by 15 yards at most.  When comparing mediocre shots in even less, and poor shots its negligible.  When you compare the sideways dispersion of the mediocre and poor shots, it seems to me like I may have found a winner with this.

If it works out, I have Michelle Wie to thank (watching her do it at the Dinah Shore a few weeks ago put it in my head I think).  I'm hoping to give it a shot on the course this Thursday.

I tried to take some video of each so you guys could check out the difference in the swings, but my phone was misbehaving.

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Just a wild guess with regards to your dispersion when you hit off your left foot. Could it be possible that, when you hit the stinger, your club face is square to the target line, and when you move the ball up your club face may not be as square because the club is coming back to the inside, or possibly the face is to open..?

I know if I hit my longer irons, and don't swing in  to out, I get some nasty pull hooks from coming ott. Anyhow just thinking out loud here.

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Just a wild guess with regards to your dispersion when you hit off your left foot. Could it be possible that, when you hit the stinger, your club face is square to the target line, and when you move the ball up your club face may not be as square because the club is coming back to the inside, or possibly the face is to open..?

I know if I hit my longer irons, and don't swing in  to out, I get some nasty pull hooks from coming ott. Anyhow just thinking out loud here.

Yeah, most definitely.  Sometimes the face is a little open and I'm hitting a push-cut, and sometimes I slam it shut and hit an ugly low pull-hook.  Then the knees start to shake and I'm afraid to try and hit the driver at all because, like Crash Davis once famously said (skip to 1:19):

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Latest Evolvr submission videos (from yesterday).  Still kind of stuck in the mud with the "jumping" piece, trying to get the legs straighter sooner.  Also still trying to get the shaft flatter through the downswing.

The good thing currently going on is that I seem to be striking the ball really well when I just concentrate on trying to point the belt buckle to the sky in the follow through.

The bad thing is that for some reason I frequently forget to do that. :loco:

Hmmm ...

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Administrator

The bad thing is that for some reason I frequently forget to do that.

Hmmm ...

Hmmm, gonna have to start calling you Forrest.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Hmmm, gonna have to start calling you Forrest.

Tie a string around a finger lol

Haha, very funny. :drool:

So today while taking full swings I made a point to get the belt buckly feeling like its going up ... and I was striking it really well.  I had a pretty nice little shot cone from my target to about 10 yards right of my target.  I did still have a few push cuts that leaked right of that, but for the most part, everything was in there.  I thought I had pulled a couple, then went back and I think my alignment was all hinky.

One other thing:  I'm kind of fed up with how pronounced my silly "Kuchar" trigger move has become and I think it's a lot of silly wasted movement, so I tried to eliminate that today as well.  Pretty easy fix, that is, and it just makes everything else feel tighter. :)

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

As you said your weight is on the balls of your feet. So your out of balance as seen when you lost your balance set your weight in your ankles and more in the heels.. Your stance is too wide narrow it up a bit. Your letting your right arm flex way too early, you want to swing with the feeling that the golf swing is wide,narrow, wide.keep the club out in front of you don't get it too deep behind you. This will cause you to hit pushes, blocks or higher handicappers come over the top to get the club back on plane. As far as the hips are concerned you need them to be more passive. At impact you want them to be about 30 degrees open and at that point they stop and the arms and hands come down and after you make impact the hips turn. You want to feel like your shoulders are closed and hips square at the target at impact even though they won't be. Hope this helps.

Try and feel that your belt buckle is facing the ball at impact not pointing to the sky. This will keep your hips from spinning open too early. You also don't want to hang back on your right side and Change your spine angle(tilt). We want 80 percent of our weight on the left side(stacked)

As you said your weight is on the balls of your feet. So your out of balance as seen when you lost your balance set your weight in your ankles and more in the heels.. Your stance is too wide narrow it up a bit. Your letting your right arm flex way too early, you want to swing with the feeling that the golf swing is wide,narrow, wide.keep the club out in front of you don't get it too deep behind you. This will cause you to hit pushes, blocks or higher handicappers come over the top to get the club back on plane. As far as the hips are concerned you need them to be more passive. At impact you want them to be about 30 degrees open and at that point they stop and the arms and hands come down and after you make impact the hips turn. You want to feel like your shoulders are closed and hips square at the target at impact even though they won't be. Hope this helps.

Try and feel that your belt buckle is facing the ball at impact not pointing to the sky. This will keep your hips from spinning open too early. You also don't want to hang back on your right side and Change your spine angle(tilt). We want 80 percent of our weight on the left side(stacked)

This just not good advice here, I am sorry.

Nate

:tmade:(10.5) :pxg:(4W & 7W) MIURA(3-PW) :mizuno:(50/54/60) 

 

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

One other thing:  I'm kind of fed up with how pronounced my silly "Kuchar" trigger move has become and I think it's a lot of silly wasted movement, so I tried to eliminate that today as well.  Pretty easy fix, that is, and it just makes everything else feel tighter. :)

What's the Kuchar trigger thing? EDIT: Nevermind, I see it. You kind of gather your arms at the top during transition.

In my bag:

Driver: Titleist TSi3 | 15º 3-Wood: Ping G410 | 17º 2-Hybrid: Ping G410 | 19º 3-Iron: TaylorMade GAPR Lo |4-PW Irons: Nike VR Pro Combo | 54º SW, 60º LW: Titleist Vokey SM8 | Putter: Odyssey Toulon Las Vegas H7

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

What's the Kuchar trigger thing? EDIT: Nevermind, I see it. You kind of gather your arms at the top during transition.

No ... It's just that move at the very beginning where the club comes up off the ground and goes away from me before I actually start the backswing. I don't know how much it affects my swing but it just seems like wasted movement. I also think it looks ugly when I do it. And to Matt Kuchar in my best Rodney Dangerfield voice: "It looks good on you though!" ;)

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

No ... It's just that move at the very beginning where the club comes up off the ground and goes away from me before I actually start the backswing. I don't know how much it affects my swing but it just seems like wasted movement. I also think it looks ugly when I do it. And to Matt Kuchar in my best Rodney Dangerfield voice: "It looks good on you though!" ;)

Oh, I thought that was a drill or something. :-O

In my bag:

Driver: Titleist TSi3 | 15º 3-Wood: Ping G410 | 17º 2-Hybrid: Ping G410 | 19º 3-Iron: TaylorMade GAPR Lo |4-PW Irons: Nike VR Pro Combo | 54º SW, 60º LW: Titleist Vokey SM8 | Putter: Odyssey Toulon Las Vegas H7

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Note: This thread is 1514 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • TST Partners

    PlayBetter
    TourStriker PlaneMate
    Golfer's Journal
    ShotScope
    The Stack System
    FitForGolf
    FlightScope Mevo
    Direct: Mevo, Mevo+, and Pro Package.

    Coupon Codes (save 10-20%): "IACAS" for Mevo/Stack/FitForGolf, "IACASPLUS" for Mevo+/Pro Package, and "THESANDTRAP" for ShotScope. 15% off TourStriker (no code).
  • Posts

    • I'm not an "official" instructor but I've been helping people for a few years now. I find that most beginners never get taught a proper concept of how the swing works. I also find that most people need a better understanding of what the arms and hands do before even working on the grip or the rest of the body. This is because what your concept of how the arms work through the downswing will dictate how strong or weak your grip must be. And if your arms work correctly then you can get away with a lot of variation in the lower body and still hit the ball decently. This will be long by the way... now...I get technical because...well...if you're writing it, you have to make it understandable. So let's understand the swing structure of the left or lead arm. The clubhead is controlled by the left hand, the left hand is controlled by the left wrist which is made up of the two bones of the forearm; the ulna closest to the pinky finger and the radius closest to the thumb. The forearm is attached to but can work independently of the humorous or upper arm which ends at the shoulder joint. That's the structure you are working with. Now how each section of that structure can work in different ways so let's talk about them starting at the upper arm. You may have heard people use the term "external shoulder rotation." It's usually used in reference to the right arm but that's okay you need to understand it in the left arm as well. First off...that's not a correct term. The shoulder is a complex structure of three bones; the clavicle in the upper chest/neck area, the scapula or shoulder blade that glides across the back and the end of the humorous bone that is the upper arm. So when you hear that term what they really are saying is "external rotation of the humerus." A simple way to understand this is to think about arm wrestling. If you are arm wresting someone with your elbow on a table you are trying to force your opponents arm into external rotation while your upper arm would be internally rotating. If you are losing the wrestling match you will find that while your elbow stays in place, your forearm and hand will be pushed back behind the elbow as your humerus externally rotates. So in the golf swing we don't want to be the winner of the arm wrestling match... at any point in time! Both upper arms need to externally rotate. The right upper arm externally rotates in the backswing and stays in that position through impact or for some people just before but very close to impact. The left arm must externally rotate in the downswing from impact through the finish. Some people choose to set-up with both upper arms externally rotated...think elbows pointed at the hips or biceps up. Others will start with just the right arm in this position...some people describe it as the "giving blood" position. Others start with both elbows internally rotated...biceps facing inward toward each other. You can set-up whichever way feels best to you but in your backswing and downswing the upper arms MUST externally rotate. Now back to the left arm...with which you should try to control the swing...and the forearm. The forearm is where most people get in trouble because it can rotate left or right no matter which orientation your upper arm is in...try it...it's just how the forearm is structured to work. And this is where you MUST make the decision as to how you want the forearms to work in order to choose how strong or weak your grip must be. Ben Hogan in his book 5 Lessons uses the terms supination and pronation. To illustrate it simply grab a club in your left hand and hold it out in front of you. Rotate your forearm to where your knuckles point to the sky (this is pronation) and then rotate your forearm the other way so that your knuckles point to the ground (this is supination). When your lead forearm is in pronation (knuckles up) the ulna will be on the left side of the radius. In supination (knuckles down the ulna rotates under the radius and the radius is now on the left side of the ulna. Very important that you relate this to the position of the ulna. At the top of the backswing you should be in a position where you feel that the knuckles of the left hand are pointed to the sky. As you rotate your body open and your chest pulls your arms down and into impact you will need to be aware that your ulna stays on the left side of the radius as long as possible. This is the position instructors are trying to have you achieve by pulling the butt of the club into an invisible wall past your left leg while maintaining the 90 degree angle formed by the shaft and your forearm. You've probably seen or heard of that drill as we all have over the years. Now here is the IMPORTANT part that no one seems to ever speak of...what happens from there!?! From that position...ulna on the left side of the radius, shaft and the forearm at a 90 degree angle, hands directly over the ball...you have two choices. 1) You can keep the ulna traveling toward the target on the left side of the radius and only release (unhinge) the wrists to lower the clubhead down into the ball or 2) while you unhinge your left wrist you can rotate your left forearm from the pronated position (knuckles up) to the supinated position (knuckles down) and let the ulna rotate under and eventually to the right side of the radius. If you choose to release the club with method 1 you will need a strong grip. The clubface will stay stable and square to the target throughout the swing but you probably will lose distance and have a very spinny ball flight. If you choose to release the club with method 2 you will probably require a much weaker grip as the clubhead will be less stable as it closes down coming into impact. This method requires more timing but results in more power through impact and usually more distance. You may also hook the ball if you start with too strong of a grip or a closed clubface at address. Method 2 is what most pros use but not all. Method 1 is what causes most people to hit weak, spinny slices and requires an unusually strong grip because with method 1 the left forearm has a tendency to open more coming into impact where the ulna stays in front of the radius too long.    Here's the catch...you need to learn both releases. Release 1 is how you want to use your wedges when you want to make sure the bounce interacts with the turf or if you need to hit a cut from left to right around a tree. You'll get more height and more spin with release 1. Release 2 will let the leading edge tear through the turf taking a nice crisp divot and can be used to hook a ball from right to left. Congratulations to anyone that read through all of this! I believe that once your brain understands precisely how it needs to control the different parts of your body it can do it repetitively on command. Your swing will repeat and not fall apart from day to day. Learn how you want to use your forearms and you can choose your grip and clubface position at address. Either method will work and both methods are used by the best players in the world for different shots.
    • Day 330 - Mostly just partial swings today, so I could really focus on exaggerating my hips towards the target in my finish. 
    • Day 72 - 2024-12-11 /sees a picture of Chet after shaving with a saw, goes back to doing a little mirror work at AMG.
    • Day 147: more mirror work. Trying to hone in the backswing stuff real nice. 
    • If I was going to try to help someone fix a low snap hook without actually seeing their swing I would have to tell them to break down the problem into pieces. See if you can fix the "low" part of the problem first. A low ball flight tells me you are probably swinging level or hitting down on the ball instead of hitting up on it. Try teeing the ball higher than you are comfortable and put the ball up in your stance a little further up than comfortable...try putting it off your left heal or even the left toe. Try to feel like your club head is swinging up through impact. Try that first and see if it gets you to a high snap hook or a high pull hook.    If you want to address the hook part of the swing you are going to have to look at two areas of the swing as well as your concept of what the arms and hands do through impact. I love talking through this stuff with people but I'll only go into it further if you really want to go down that rabbit hole...you would have to say so. Swing well my friend!
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to TST! Signing up is free, and you'll see fewer ads and can talk with fellow golf enthusiasts! By using TST, you agree to our Terms of Use, our Privacy Policy, and our Guidelines.

The popup will be closed in 10 seconds...