How many of you "fluff" your ball or play 6"/winter rules all the time?

[David in FL]

The choice is two relatively small divot holes or a crater. Have look the next time you're on the course at how quickly shallow divot holes recover compared to those that are deeper. You will also find that a shallow divot hole will still have grass roots in it, which will see grass coming through relatively quickly from the base of the hole providing its in the growing season, whereas a deeper divot hole will propogate from the sides only and will take a lot longer for the hole to germinate right across - I'm on the Green's

Gotta say, I've heard a lot of reasons/excuses over the years for not playing the ball as it lies, but to benefit the course is a new one. :-\

[David in FL]

Only time I move it is if I hit it in the fairway off the tee and land in a divot. In a casual round, if I hit it in the fairway I feel I deserve a clean shot into the green.

I'm curious. If you hit your drive into the woods and it bounces off a tree back into the fairway, do you throw it into the woods and play it from there because that's the result that your tee shot "deserved"?

[dak4n6]

Originally Posted by David in FL

I'm curious. If you hit your drive into the woods and it bounces off a tree back into the fairway, do you throw it into the woods and play it from there because that's the result that your tee shot "deserved"?

Good point. I gotta remember that one for the next time one of my buddies rolls his ball in the fairway.

[pepsiplusconker]

Wow, I can't believe how many people do this in the thread.

I don't get why you would ever think "fluffing" your ball is ok, I have friends who do it, but I know they are'nt very good, and I don't want to be "that guy" dictating the rules, if they beat me, I would just have to point out how the cheated haha.

Winter is the only time I will move my ball, when the ball plugs to the point where there is no ball above the surface.

I guess, if you want to argue about how people bend the rules in golf, top level courses, where the best golf is played, are obviously better maintained than ours, you probably wouldnt need to fluff it on their fairways.

[poser]

Originally Posted by David in FL

I'm curious. If you hit your drive into the woods and it bounces off a tree back into the fairway, do you throw it into the woods and play it from there because that's the result that your tee shot "deserved"?

So how do you determine lift clean and place then?  If it rained 3 inches the night before and you are sitting in soaked fairway covered in mud I guess you always play it down?  I play in tournaments all the time and of course it's always played as it lies but, I honestly think the fairway divot is one of the dumbest rules in golf.  You shouldn't be punished for hitting in the fairway.  It's times like this I believe their should be rules for pros and rules for casual golfers.  Most of the guys have a hard enough time playing the game and having them hit out of a fairway divot makes it that much harder for them.

[dak4n6]

Originally Posted by poser

So how do you determine lift clean and place then?  If it rained 3 inches the night before and you are sitting in soaked fairway covered in mud I guess you always play it down?  I play in tournaments all the time and of course it's always played as it lies but, I honestly think the fairway divot is one of the dumbest rules in golf.  You shouldn't be punished for hitting in the fairway.  It's times like this I believe their should be rules for pros and rules for casual golfers.  Most of the guys have a hard enough time playing the game and having them hit out of a fairway divot makes it that much harder for them.

The divot situation was already discussed in the 'dumbest rules' thread. It's because concensus on what constitutes a divot can never be reached, and everyone would declare that the slightest imperfection is a 'divot'. Besides, how many times do you actually get in a divot...once every 4 rounds? I actually can't remember the last time I was in a bad divot..

As for LCP, that's up to your group if you're playing a match, or the rules commitee if you're playing a tournament, or you if you're playing with yourself.  :o

[sean_miller]

I've never played "winter rules" even as a beginner. If a ball plugs in it's own divot on a very wet fairway I'll take a drop, but I assumed that was in the rules. If a tournament uses "lift clean and place" then it probably has casual water and there are legal drops happening all over the course. That's not winter rules. "Winter rules" is not rules. It's cheating.

[Chief Broom]

It doesn't bother me when people roll the ball.  I play in a league that allows for rolling it up to a club length no closer to the hole and I'm fine with that because the league maintains everyone's handicap and those of us who don't roll the ball see it reflected in our handicaps just as it is for the rollers of the ball.

The problem with being in the habit of rolling the ball is that if you ever get into a situation where you can't roll the ball the adjustment is difficult.  Not only will you find yourself instinctively nudging the ball with your club (which if you're being watched means a penalty), but when you find your ball resting in an unfavorable lie you're going to be at a disadvantage to the player who is used to playing the ball down.  I played with a guy a few weeks ago who plays in daily dog fights at several local clubs.  Those guys all roll the ball and take even more liberties with the rules.  They do account for these liberties by laying it out up front as the bets are being made, but when this guy played with my usual group we told him in our game we play the ball down and strictly follow the rules of golf.  Right off the bat this guy started struggling.  He hit a wayward drive in the woods that with his usual group he would have adjusted his ball practically back into the fairway, but with us he was facing an awkward shot up against a tree deep in the woods.  It took him two shots to simply get his ball back in play.  I might not have been able to do any better than he did, but it was obvious that was a situation he never has to face because the guys he plays with allow for rolling the ball and using the foot wedge.  This guy is a legitimate single digit handicapper, but on that day having to play the ball down he shot an 86 and wound up losing money in the process.  He didn't say anything about it but it was obvious to the rest of us that having to play the ball down threw him off his game.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by Chief Broom

The problem with being in the habit of rolling the ball is that if you ever get into a situation where you can't roll the ball the adjustment is difficult.  Not only will you find yourself instinctively nudging the ball with your club (which if you're being watched means a penalty), but when you find your ball resting in an unfavorable lie you're going to be at a disadvantage to the player who is used to playing the ball down.

It's a penalty even if you aren't being watched.

And yes, if you never play from those lies, then you'll never learn how to do it when you need to.  I've even played in money games where the other guys were playing under the preferred lies local rule, and I chose to play the ball down.  I've never lost a significant amount by doing so, and I win more than I lose, because those so-called trouble shots are really no different from any other shot in golf.  You just have to bear down and focus.

[kw purp]

Originally Posted by David in FL

I'm curious. If you hit your drive into the woods and it bounces off a tree back into the fairway, do you throw it into the woods and play it from there because that's the result that your tee shot "deserved"?

Valid point, but one is a result from nature, my example is a result of a person. If I land in the rough and hit a rock which makes it bounce sideways into the woods, I would take the penalty. I feel the divot is different from something natural to the course

[Goonsidious]

Golf, unlike hundreds of other sports, have so many variables and obstacles. And the fact that you have 1 chance on this 1 shot on 1 hole.. makes people want to make sure they get their moneys worth.. whatever that entails. Since it's not like basketball where you can continue to shoot at 1 hoop.. or bowling where it's 1 lane over and over again.

[TomK82]

never i always thought it was cheating, but i do see people do it all the time.

[Topper]

I play it as it lies unless it's GUR.  That means I play from really lousy fairway lies, divots, depressions, and areas where the grass is dead/dormant due to baking in the sun.  I don't fluff lies....or the related practice of pressing down the grass behind the ball.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by Goonsidious

Golf, unlike hundreds of other sports, have so many variables and obstacles. And the fact that you have 1 chance on this 1 shot on 1 hole.. makes people want to make sure they get their moneys worth.. whatever that entails. Since it's not like basketball where you can continue to shoot at 1 hoop.. or bowling where it's 1 lane over and over again.

LOL - sounds like for some people they'll let one stroke determine a whole round and whether or not they've enjoyed the day.  Here's my take - I relish a bad lie or an unlucky break, because it feels really good to make a great recovery, even if it's only for a bogey, and beat the odds on that one hole. Heck, worst case scenario play the safe shot with short pitch to a closer approach from a good lie. Maybe make a putt and pat yourself on the back for a great up and down. Some of my most memorable golf shots are saving par from a divot in the fairway or getting up and down from a foot print in the bunker. Even if you don't pull off the save, it sets you up for a lucky break later in the round. People that skirt their bad breaks by rolling the ball never seem to get as many good breaks. It's karma.

[David in FL]

Valid point, but one is a result from nature, my example is a result of a person. If I land in the rough and hit a rock which makes it bounce sideways into the woods, I would take the penalty. I feel the divot is different from something natural to the course

Last week I pulled a putt badly. No chance at all....except that it hit this manhole cover size ball marker my buddy was using (casino chip), and dove right into the hole. Absolute dumb luck on a really miserable putt. Should I have not accepted that good fortune because I didn't deserve it, and the ball marker wasn't something "natural to the course"? Golf's a hard game, and sometimes it's not even fair, but it is what it is, and the rules are what theybare. I'll also offer that I get ENORMOUS enjoyment out of executing a shot from a difficult lie. Far more than I would if I had hit the same shot having moved the ball. I'd bet that you would too. Don't deprive yourself of that!

[David in FL]

[U] never [/U] i always thought it was cheating

......and you were right! :-)

[Goonsidious]

I don't understand this fluff thing anyways.. if you're in a bad position.. lay it up, get back on the fairway, and go after the hole.

Did your ball land on a slight hill to the right and the only way you can hit it is if you position the club mid-waist high? Go for the hit.. it will either be a slight layup or a nice shot.

[Spyder]

I have a friend who religiously fluffs/rolls their lie on every single shot. I never say anything though, even when they mess with me on my shots. He's one of my better friends so I just don't even care. He knows that when/if he wants to play for money he has to play it as it lies and I will throw strokes at him for infractions - regardless of the fact that he can't go 3 holes without chunking or topping the ball due to his many years of improving his lie. After literally never hitting out of the rough in his life, he can barely get it out now.

Fluffing/rolling is only going to impact your play negatively in the long run if you ever play the game as intended or by the rules if necessary/dicated by a tournament or something of that nature.

If you have no intention of playing for money, or in a tournament, then I could care less what you do. Just remember that you're definitely not entitled to talk about score, strokes or handicap at that point because you're no longer playing golf.