2012 NFL Season

[mchepp]

Originally Posted by jamo

So 18-1 maybe...

I don't know if the Patriots aren't that good or the Cardinals are much better than I thought they were. Total shocker there. The only one to surprise me more was Dallas and Seattle. Seattle is tough place to play but 27-7 I did not see.

[tiger187126]

Originally Posted by bwdial

The issues that I have with the replacement referees is that they are going to get someone killed.  During the Ravens v. Eagles game a pass was knocked down, and the back judge is signaling that it's a tipped ball while it's rolling around on the ground and players - in an already chippy game - were trying to kill each other to get it.  Blow the damn whistle.

Oh, and it's like Stevie Wonder is spotting the ball.

watching the redskins game (same as the eagles/bmore and first half of the game last night) it was a street fight. every play ended with shoving, punching, guys being taken out at the knees from behind, etc.

there was one flag for a punch thrown (and no ejection, which by rule has to happen) and countless missed calls. london fletcher was thrown down after the whistle and as he was trying to get up a guy dove on top of him. it was absolutely comical if you weren't so worried about someone getting seriously hurt. looked like RGIII took a couple of late shots and forearms to the face while the defensive player was "trying to get up."

we need the real refs back. hochuli would have never stood for any of that and probably laid out a few players for what they were doing.

but i will tell you right now, jeff fischer is a dirty coach. you look at his Tennessee teams and they always had guys playing dirty, so he goes out and hires gregg williams when he gets a new job. doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out. the tv guys refused to show replays of anything because the rams were getting away with murder after the whistle and goodell has to protect "the integrity of the league" with these pathetic excuses for refs.

[RonTheSavage]

Originally Posted by mchepp

I don't know if the Patriots aren't that good or the Cardinals are much better than I thought they were. Total shocker there. The only one to surprise me more was Dallas and Seattle. Seattle is tough place to play but 27-7 I did not see.

As a Niner fan myself I think the NFC West is gonna continue to surprise alot of people. Im hoping we can finally put to bed this notion that our division is weak.

[jamo]

[quote name="mchepp" url="/t/62019/2012-nfl-season/0_30#post_769553"] I don't know if the Patriots aren't that good or the Cardinals are much better than I thought they were. [/QUOTE] I think both are possible. The Cardinals have a pretty solid defense and some good offensive weapons, plus the Hernandez injury really hurt. I think it's also worth noting that the Pats almost always have one or two regular season games where they flat-out play poorly (loss to the Bills last year, to Cleveland in 2010, Dolphins in 2009, etc.), and for everything good you can say about Bill Belichick as a schemer, the Patriots have always have a tendency to play down to lesser teams.

[boogielicious]

Agree with holding call miscue.  Gronk had the LB between the numbers and pushed him back after Woodhead passed, definitely not holding.  Bad call in a crucial spot.  But Gostkowski has to make that kick.  Arizona's defense did a good job of hiding holding on the receivers too.  Most good D-backs can do it without getting caught, but better refs may have caught it.  Pat's got a few breaks too, so I guess it evens out, but it is frustrating.

There were at least five times in the game when either Arizona or the Pats lined up ready to snap when the refs blew the whistle for some unknown reason.  Not sure what they were doing, but then the just resumed play.  Frustrating for both offenses.  Brady and Kolb had the same expression on their faces when this happened, "Geez, what now?"

[iacas]

The refs are bad. The Steelers were called for PI on a play where Costas and Simms said things like "I don't see a penalty there." and "Whatever they think they saw the guy never even touched him" and so on. No idea what that call was. Ended up being irrelevant, except 19 yards on the scoresheet.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by iacas

The refs are bad. The Steelers were called for PI on a play where Costas and Simms said things like "I don't see a penalty there." and "Whatever they think they saw the guy never even touched him" and so on. No idea what that call was. Ended up being irrelevant, except 19 yards on the scoresheet.

And we didn't even realize it at the time, but the play at the end of the Eagles game where the refs were deciding if Vick fumbled or not (where Dave was getting distracted like he had a bunch of money on the game) ... they correctly reversed the call and ruled it incomplete but they should have also called it intentional grounding since he was blindly throwing it to nobody from within the pocket.  They very well might not have scored that touchdown and would have lost that game.  But let's not forget that these are calls that the old "good" refs can (and did) screw up too.

One that the old refs would never have missed:

Unsportsmanlike conduct on Peyton Manning last night for pooping on the field during the first quarter.

[boogielicious]

Grounding is a very inconsistent call.  They called Roethlisberger for it when his throw went all the way the the line of scrimmage marker, which should not be grounding.  When a QB gets hit while throwing, the hit changes the ball direction and it should not be grounding because the hit caused the ball to fly off target.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by boogielicious

Grounding is a very inconsistent call.  They called Roethlisberger for it when his throw went all the way the the line of scrimmage marker, which should not be grounding.  When a QB gets hit while throwing, the hit changes the ball direction and it should not be grounding because the hit caused the ball to fly off target.

Good point, didn't think of that.  He was totally in the process of going down, so you could argue that there is really no way to know where he intended that ball to end up because his arm was being pulled down.  Similar to when a defender cuts off a guys route short for PI and then claims the ball was uncatchable.  Well of course it was uncatchable because you didn't let him get where he was going.

You now bring me to one of my 2 biggest pet peeves in regards to NFL rules ... and that is the fact that penalties are not reviewable.  Certainly, that could be considered a bit ridiculous in regards to holding, which is extremely subjective and could probably be called on every play, but something like you mention with Rothlisbreregregedr, its not.  Either he was in the pocket or not, and the ball went to the line or not.  Why couldn't they review that?  Every once in a while there is a crucial non delay of game call that could be pointed out by the booth.  Stuff like that.

[boogielicious]

Watch this season and count every time a QB in the red zone throws the ball out of the back of the end zone while in the pocket.  Technically it is grounding, but they never call it.  It seems they only call it when you are on your half of the field.  The closer to your own end zone you are, the more they will call it.  That is not a consistent approach, which infuriates fans.

[tiger187126]

Originally Posted by boogielicious

Watch this season and count every time a QB in the red zone throws the ball out of the back of the end zone while in the pocket.  Technically it is grounding, but they never call it.  It seems they only call it when you are on your half of the field.  The closer to your own end zone you are, the more they will call it.  That is not a consistent approach, which infuriates fans.

pressure is a component of grounding. if you're not under pressure and throw a pass out in the middle of nowhere they won't call grounding either, it's considered a miscommunication with the receiver. part of the rule for grounding is that the QB is about to be sacked and the throw is only for the purpose of not taking a sack.

[dak4n6]

Originally Posted by tiger187126

pressure is a component of grounding. if you're not under pressure and throw a pass out in the middle of nowhere they won't call grounding either, it's considered a miscommunication with the receiver. part of the rule for grounding is that the QB is about to be sacked and the throw is only for the purpose of not taking a sack.

That is correct. You see QBs throw the ball OB all the time when they can't find a receiver as long as they are not under pressure.

Any Big Blue fans out there?

[boogielicious]

Pressure is a component, of course.  But you never see a grounding call in the red zone and those QB's are under pressure, that is why they throw it out the back.  They wouldn't get rid of it if they weren't.

[dak4n6]

Speaking of Big Blue, I have always thought that they are one of the best plug-and-play teams in the league, and last nights beat down ot the Panthers showed it. Back-ups Brown and Bardon played lights out. The O line without David Diehl pretty much kept Manning from getting so much as a grass stain. The Giant's ability to have back-ups step in and step up is a testament to the impeccability of their coaching staff and management.

On the other side, when are teams going to finally reallize that run and gun QBs don't work in the long run in this league. They work great in college but not in a league where defenses are bigger, faster (like WAY faster), and smarter (like WAY smarter). Look at Vick - when he first came back, he was unstopable, and even though the Birds took the NFC E in 2010, I recall the last 3 games (starting with the Giants) the defenses had figured him out and he spent a lot of time on his back. Then, in 2011 his presence was very much diminished. I predict the same for Cam Newton and his silly Superman charades.

[jamo]

Posting this before the end of the game in an effort to stay slightly unbiased, but the refs in this Pats/Ravens game has been atrocious. Probably the best thing I can save about them is that they remind me of NBA refs, where you just have no rhyme or reason for why calls went one way or the other. I have no confidence that they'll make the same call in two exact situations.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by jamo

Posting this before the end of the game in an effort to stay slightly unbiased, but the refs in this Pats/Ravens game has been atrocious. Probably the best thing I can save about them is that they remind me of NBA refs, where you just have no rhyme or reason for why calls went one way or the other. I have no confidence that they'll make the same call in two exact situations.

Totally unbiased opinion here ... and you are right.  Wow, I only watched the last 5-10 minutes and they were awful.  Count me now in the group of people who say lets get the old refs back.

[newtogolf]

Vick is a run and gun, he wasn't and I don't think is yet, comfortable being a drop back passer.  The new generation of athletic QB's is RGIII.  Guys that are athletic enough to run and gun but were taught to be pocket passers.  These guys will break NFL records because they have all the skills of the pocket QB but add a threat to run when they see an opening.

Having a guy like RGIII makes defenses commit a LB or safety as a spy which evens up the blocking and coverage schemes where defenses usually have a one man advantage.

Originally Posted by dak4n6

On the other side, when are teams going to finally reallize that run and gun QBs don't work in the long run in this league. They work great in college but not in a league where defenses are bigger, faster (like WAY faster), and smarter (like WAY smarter). Look at Vick - when he first came back, he was unstopable, and even though the Birds took the NFC E in 2010, I recall the last 3 games (starting with the Giants) the defenses had figured him out and he spent a lot of time on his back. Then, in 2011 his presence was very much diminished. I predict the same for Cam Newton and his silly Superman charades.

[dak4n6]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

Vick is a run and gun, he wasn't and I don't think is yet, comfortable being a drop back passer.  The new generation of athletic QB's is RGIII.  Guys that are athletic enough to run and gun but were taught to be pocket passers.  These guys will break NFL records because they have all the skills of the pocket QB but add a threat to run when they see an opening.

Having a guy like RGIII makes defenses commit a LB or safety as a spy which evens up the blocking and coverage schemes where defenses usually have a one man advantage.

We can see from the Vicks and Tebows that any team that needs to run option and wildcat plays is on the wrong track and destined for failure.

I agree about RGIII - pocket passer with good legs, like Aaron Rogers, able to move well in the pocket and get out of Dodge quickly when needed.