2012 NFL Season

[Beachcomber]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Ooh, I got this one ...........  JaMarcus Russell!

Seriously though, you may be right, but IT SEEMS like he also has the pocket passer skills that Steve Young and Warren Moon had, but that Vick, Young, and Perhaps Newton seem to lack.

I view RG3 like Randal Cunningham. A freakish athlete who can run or pass.

[boogielicious]

Young got good when he really stopped running first and turned to running to get more time to throw.  Big Ben is similar in that he can escape pressure then throw.  But QBs that run around a lot open themselves up to injury.  Young only had three seasons where he played 16 games.  Big Ben is similar.  Even Rogers, who is fast, leaves himself open.

These guys are great athletes but they have to realize they are more useful to the team when they are playing.  RGIII has already been injured.  If he wants to improve and last a long time, then he needs to learn to stay in the pocket and throw.

[JasonK88S]

Every qb like RG3 comes into the league with a bang. He will slow down next year due to film. Teams will figure him out and anyone who things that RG3 is the God of qb's they will have a different outlook by the end of the 2013-2014 season. Not saying he isn't good because he's a great athlete... but as far as him being "elite." To me he's just another Cam Newton / Mike Vick.

[RonTheSavage]

Originally Posted by JasonK88S

Every qb like RG3 comes into the league with a bang. He will slow down next year due to film. Teams will figure him out and anyone who things that RG3 is the God of qb's they will have a different outlook by the end of the 2013-2014 season. Not saying he isn't good because he's a great athlete... but as far as him being "elite." To me he's just another Cam Newton / Mike Vick.

Hey now..............there is only one GOD of QB's and his name is Joe Montana lol. But every QB scrambles from time to time. Im just saying a QB who can throw but also has 4.3 speed "should" be hard to stop. I want RG3 to run when he has to, not because he can. But a first down is a first down right? Im not saying he's HOF bound or anything, but he's very impressive so far.

There is the extra risk of a mobile QB getting hurt. But now a days QB's might as well have flags on. I mentioned Steve Young earlier. Im a Niner fan and the hit on Montana that jump started Young's career was a blind side hit in the pocket. The hit that forced Young into retirement I "believe" was a hit he took in the pocket.

And yeah there is a small number of truly elite qb's in the leage and RG3 aint one..............yet lol

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by Beachcomber

I'd say Steve Young was pretty damn impressive.

Pretty sure that was exactly Erik's point.  Steve Young retired 10-12 years ago or something?  Since then, we've had new QB's of that style come in every year and they never succeed in the long run.

Hopefully, RGIII is different from the rest in that he learns to run only when he has to, not to default to it all the time (like Vick and Newton) and make yourself one dimensional, or more likely, get yourself hurt.

[phan52]

Originally Posted by JasonK88S

Every qb like RG3 comes into the league with a bang. He will slow down next year due to film. Teams will figure him out and anyone who things that RG3 is the God of qb's they will have a different outlook by the end of the 2013-2014 season. Not saying he isn't good because he's a great athlete... but as far as him being "elite." To me he's just another Cam Newton / Mike Vick.

RG III is already better than Mike Vick ever was. He sees the field better and doesn't just take off when pressured.

That is hard for me to admit because I hate the Redskins.

[meenman]

RG III is already better than Mike Vick ever was. He sees the field better and doesn't just take off when pressured. That is hard for me to admit because I hate the Redskins.

This is still the typical response we see for everyone like him that comes up. Not one has stood the test of time. If he doesnt crash himself, Snyder will find a way ruin him.

[phan52]

Quote:

Originally Posted by meenman

Quote:

RG III is already better than Mike Vick ever was. He sees the field better and doesn't just take off when pressured.

This is still the typical response we see for everyone like him that comes up. Not one has stood the test of time.
If he doesnt crash himself, Snyder will find a way ruin him.

I hardly think it's typical at all. Vick always thought run first and in none of his seasons was he ever remotely close to RG III's completion percentage. I never thought Vick would be an elite QB, and RG III may already be one.

[JasonK88S]

Originally Posted by RonTheSavage

Hey now..............there is only one GOD of QB's and his name is Joe Montana lol. But every QB scrambles from time to time. Im just saying a QB who can throw but also has 4.3 speed "should" be hard to stop. I want RG3 to run when he has to, not because he can. But a first down is a first down right? Im not saying he's HOF bound or anything, but he's very impressive so far.

There is the extra risk of a mobile QB getting hurt. But now a days QB's might as well have flags on. I mentioned Steve Young earlier. Im a Niner fan and the hit on Montana that jump started Young's career was a blind side hit in the pocket. The hit that forced Young into retirement I "believe" was a hit he took in the pocket.

And yeah there is a small number of truly elite qb's in the leage and RG3 aint one..............yet lol

He's VERY good yes. He is IMO the best qb of his "type" that has played in the NFL, but i do think that he will slow down tremendously. He does have a great passing game that should help him get through his career as far as adjustments I just do not see him being the quarterback that everyone wants him to be. Especially if the skins ride him like they have this year.. he will be broke sooner than one should expect.

[JasonK88S]

Originally Posted by phan52

I hardly think it's typical at all. Vick always thought run first and in none of his seasons was he ever remotely close to RG III's completion percentage. I never thought Vick would be an elite QB, and RG III may already be one.

He may be playing like one this year but like I said its all about adjusting when teams figure you out. Look at it this way... how many times have teams tried to stop Tom Brady. Not just him but there are a few others. (Peyton, Eli, Rodgers) that WILL figure out a way to beat you. Once again not trying to take anything away from RG III, he is a great athlete and a great qb but do you honestly think its going to last as long as everyone expects? Look at the hits he takes... he has already been smashed quite a few times this year and already had a slight injury. I'm just sayin.

[Beachcomber]

Originally Posted by phan52

I hardly think it's typical at all. Vick always thought run first and in none of his seasons was he ever remotely close to RG III's completion percentage. I never thought Vick would be an elite QB, and RG III may already be one.

You have to be careful when you compare QB's completion %'s from today - with guys from the past.  While I'm not arguing with your sentiment on RG3, I'm just saying his numbers are a little inflated because the the way the league operates today.

(a.) I see so many illegal pick plays ran today - that aren't called - which give the outside or inside crossing route a wide open slant... Many of these routes have been mastered over the last several years.  And teams like the Patriots, Steelers, etc run them exceptionally well.  Because they are illegal - teams won't run them every down... But I see it a lot on 3rd down when they are in 3rd and medium type of yardage scenarios.  It's like Brady knows they need a first down so run the play and while it is 'bending' the rules.... It is rarely ever called against the offense.

(b.) Teams throw a lot of high percentage short routes - like bubble screens - which are basically a replacement run to get 3 to 4yds on average - sometimes more on early yardage downs.  So instead of running off tackle on 1st down... They throw a bubble screen to try and accomplish the same thing.

Sorry for the rant... But what I'm getting to is you have to be careful when looking at completion %'s for a guy like RG3 (currently at an eye popping 67%) and just compare him to a guy like Randall Cunningham (my comparison - just as an example) who was a career 55% completion type of guy.  (And Cunningham's highest year was 62%).  It was a different league back then and the offenses weren't as advanced as they are today.

So while RG3's completion %'s are very good... You have to consider the play calling and the way he is being used.  It helps him prop up that completion %.

[RonTheSavage]

Originally Posted by JasonK88S

He may be playing like one this year but like I said its all about adjusting when teams figure you out. Look at it this way... how many times have teams tried to stop Tom Brady. Not just him but there are a few others. (Peyton, Eli, Rodgers) that WILL figure out a way to beat you. Once again not trying to take anything away from RG III, he is a great athlete and a great qb but do you honestly think its going to last as long as everyone expects? Look at the hits he takes... he has already been smashed quite a few times this year and already had a slight injury. I'm just sayin.

I totally see what you're saying and you're making valid points. But c'mon it's hardly fair to compare RG to elite Superbowl Winning QBs. There was a time when people said Peyton couldnt win the big game. Eli's own teamates called him Elli for the same reason. The Giants front 4 has stopped Brady on the biggest of stages more than once right? Just ask any D coordinator who's harder to gameplan for and they will tell you the guy whos "able" to run. I think the league is changing and we will see more "athlete" type QB's. Shoot the Rams were only able to move the ball when Sam Bradford ran on broken plays to put his team in position to kick a FG. It's nice to have the option when the D has the right play called is all Im sayin.

[Beachcomber]

Originally Posted by JasonK88S

He may be playing like one this year but like I said its all about adjusting when teams figure you out. Look at it this way... how many times have teams tried to stop Tom Brady. Not just him but there are a few others. (Peyton, Eli, Rodgers) that WILL figure out a way to beat you. Once again not trying to take anything away from RG III, he is a great athlete and a great qb but do you honestly think its going to last as long as everyone expects? Look at the hits he takes... he has already been smashed quite a few times this year and already had a slight injury. I'm just sayin.

I would agree with this.  Many of these defenses have never faced off against RG3 and the Skins with him running the offense.  But once one teams get tape on him, and one finds a way to break him down successfully, the league will copy that and exploit it.

Here is a great example of a flash in the pan...

I'm a Browns fan... And it is like Derek Anderson when he played in 2007.  The dude lit the league up for a large part of his first season... Then as the season wore on... He started to struggle.  At the end of the year, his numbers were still pretty damn impressive.  And he got a nod to the Pro Bowl.  Then, the next year - he sucked balls.  Why?  Because teams got tape on him, learned how to scheme against him and Chudzinski's offense.  So teams ate him up.... Where is Derek Anderson today?? Third String QB at Carolina riding the bench under Chudzinski's tutalege.  LOL

My point is that RG3's numbers could be inflated as JasonK88S points out... And could take a hit once teams get more tape.  Also, as I stated in the other response, QB's numbers today are better than a lot of passing numbers in the past - based on the simple fact that the offenses are so much different today than they were even five or ten years ago.

[newtogolf]

Rivers and Eli haven't played as well this season as past seasons.  QB's have to be in a system that works for them (Tom Brady), they need good receivers that can get open (Rivers) and they need a strong running game and defense that keeps them in games so opposing defenses don't tee off on them (Eli).   RG3 has to stand the test of time, but he has a system in place to succeed, now he just needs the line to hold up and maybe another top WR to complement Garcon (if he stays healthy).

RG3 has a great the potential of being a great QB but the Redskins have to build a team around him like the 49'ers did for Montana and Young.  I'm a Jets fan, not a Redskins fan and I'd take RG3 over just about any QB in the league except for Brady, Rodgers and Brees.  I'd give you Sanchez and Tebow for any other starting QB in the league but no one would be stupid enough to take them.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Pretty sure that was exactly Erik's point.  Steve Young retired 10-12 years ago or something?  Since then, we've had new QB's of that style come in every year and they never succeed in the long run.

Yes, that was my point... and I'm not sure even Steve Young really fits that mold. He wasn't as "scrambly" as RGIII.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

Rivers and Eli haven't played as well this season as past seasons.  QB's have to be in a system that works for them (Tom Brady), they need good receivers that can get open (Rivers) and they need a strong running game and defense that keeps them in games so opposing defenses don't tee off on them (Eli).   RG3 has to stand the test of time, but he has a system in place to succeed, now he just needs the line to hold up and maybe another top WR to complement Garcon (if he stays healthy).

RG3 has a great the potential of being a great QB but the Redskins have to build a team around him like the 49'ers did for Montana and Young.  I'm a Jets fan, not a Redskins fan and I'd take RG3 over just about any QB in the league except for Brady, Rodgers and Brees.  I'd give you Sanchez and Tebow for any other starting QB in the league but no one would be stupid enough to take them.

Here's something funny ... I heard on ESPN radio this morning (Sal Paolantonio during The Herd) that he thinks the Jets could or should (that's an important distinction and I'm not sure which) consider acquiring Michael Vick.  Talk about a circus.

[newtogolf]

That's not a joke, all the sports stations here are reporting a potential trade.  If the Jets want to be a circus, Vick is their guy.

I was disappointed when Ryan announced Sanchez was starting this week, they are out of the playoffs, and while all the problems aren't Sanchez's fault he's proven to me at least he's not a starting NFL QB.  I'd either like to see them give Tebow a shot or McElroy so they can realize they need to draft a QB that can handle the job.

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Here's something funny ... I heard on ESPN radio this morning (Sal Paolantonio during The Herd) that he thinks the Jets could or should (that's an important distinction and I'm not sure which) consider acquiring Michael Vick.  Talk about a circus.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

That's not a joke, all the sports stations here are reporting a potential trade.  If the Jets want to be a circus, Vick is their guy.

I was disappointed when Ryan announced Sanchez was starting this week, they are out of the playoffs, and while all the problems aren't Sanchez's fault he's proven to me at least he's not a starting NFL QB.  I'd either like to see them give Tebow a shot or McElroy so they can realize they need to draft a QB that can handle the job.

OK ... I just wasn't sure whether or not it was him reporting something that was rumored or in the works, or just his opinion.  I didn't want to say "Did you hear?  The Jets are after Vick" if it was just his opinion.

I heard that part of his reasoning is that Met Life stadium is the windiest in the league and you need a QB with a gun.  (He pointed to Sanchez and Eli Manning always having better road records)  Not sure that a guy with a strong arm and no accuracy counts, but at least that was what he said.