2012 Ryder Cup Discussion Thread

[Shorty]

I just realised - If the U.S.A. had won all their singles matches, they would have won the Ryder Cup.

And........if Tiger had birdied 18, he would have won!!!!!!!!!!!

All of this conjecture is ludicrous.

Europe played really well on Sunday and made some great putts when it counted.

If a couple of breaks had gone U.S.A's way, they would have won.

We may as well say that if McIlroy hadn't arrived  the outcome would have been different.

Yes - and he would have been a pariah for the rest of his life. It's a obvious.

I'm over the Seve BS - it's been done to death (sorry about that, no pun intended)

Personally , I think we should accept the outcome and think about Gleneagles, going forward . The U.S. players have the skill sets , and as long as the price point of tickets is right in Glenagles, it will be a great 2014.

I fear that the crowds are getting out of control - young men in the gallery think that they are part of the action. But that's an argument for another thread which also appears to have no end.

[Joakim]

This is just golf and not realizing motivation (especially with younger players) would have made some impact. USA won first two days, USA had better driving and putting advantage, USA killed on the par 3's, USA had substantial higher PGA rankings compared to Europe (see below), USA had home field advantage, USA would have won this big if it was stroke play.

With these advantages the only mitigating factor is how you manage them. I am very excited and lookng forward to 2014 and beyond.

Europe players are getting older and this RC gave USA some much needed experience.

Rank		Player		Pt.s Avg.		Tot. Pts.		# of Evts.		Pts. Lost 2010/11		Pts.l Gained 2012
	1		Rory McIlroy , Nir		12.54		614.28		49		-260.50		486.19
	2		Tiger Woods , USA		9.58		383.20		40		-110.62		350.14
	3		Luke Donald , Eng		9.26		472.27		51		-335.46		266.27
	4		Lee Westwood , Eng		7.11		362.46		51		-241.40		241.03
	5		Justin Rose , Eng		6.43		334.31		52		-151.67		278.38
	6		Adam Scott , Aus		6.36		273.36		43		-156.21		171.26
	7		Bubba Watson , USA		6.21		291.86		47		-154.09		261.65
	8		Webb Simpson , USA		6.07		315.80		52		-150.19		194.09
	9		Brandt Snedeker , USA		5.94		308.91		52		-114.39		256.17
	10		Jason Dufner , USA		5.92		278.35		47		-105.55		223.25
	11		Steve Stricker , USA		5.70		233.86		41		-154.27		169.65
	12		Louis Oosthuizen , Zaf		5.63		292.84		52		-130.80		258.71
	13		Dustin Johnson , USA		5.51		253.57		46		-177.80		162.46
	14		Matt Kuchar , USA		5.39		275.07		51		-186.11		206.79
	15		Keegan Bradley , USA		5.36		278.95		52		-106.12		211.35
	16		Phil Mickelson , USA		5.14		252.01		49		-161.90		203.59
	17		Zach Johnson , USA		5.12		256.17		50		-113.71		215.20
	18		Graeme McDowell , Nir		4.81		250.10		52		-186.31		195.16
	19		Sergio Garcia , Esp		4.76		237.93		50		-103.79		155.92
	20		Hunter Mahan , USA		4.71		244.99		52		-158.04		201.49
	21		Nick Watney , USA		4.56		236.86		52		-152.19		149.84
	22		Ernie Els , Zaf		4.52		234.94		52		-112.23		224.77
	23		Jim Furyk , USA		4.09		212.66		52		-111.85		188.11
	24		Bo Van Pelt , USA		4.07		211.84		52		-119.54		149.34
	25		Peter Hanson , Swe		4.00		207.80		52		-109.09		162.23
	26		Ian Poulter , Eng		3.94		201.15		51		-125.94		132.89
	27		Rickie Fowler , USA		3.92		203.98		52		-117.90		146.88
	28		Paul Lawrie , Sco		3.89		194.57		50		-63.38		171.41
	29		Jason Day , Aus		3.84		157.39		41		-151.96		65.94
	30		Charl Schwartzel , Zaf		3.79		197.21		52		-166.76		90.81
	31		Francesco Molinari , Ita		3.76		195.26		52		-125.69		156.48
	32		Martin Kaymer , Deu		3.61		180.60		50		-222.66		69.19
	33		Carl Pettersson , Swe		3.58		186.30		52		-71.52		179.90
	34		Bill Haas , USA		3.49		181.45		52		-129.68		125.55
	35		Nicolas Colsaerts , Bel		3.46		176.70		51		-66.11		151.20

[Monte the Bear]

Originally Posted by Chas

Monte:  don't make the mistaken assumption that certain posts in this thread are typical of the american view.  Most sensible yanks know when their sportsmen are underperforming and don't run around looking for excuses and blaming the manager.  I've lived half my life in the U.K. - the majority of golf fans, the more thoughtful ones anyway, are not so different.  Perhaps there are more bad losers in the U.S. when it comes to golf.  Perhaps that has to do with "loss of Empire" .... something that you guys in the U.K. know something about

Sure. No problem with this. And thanks - we have our share of morons too. That said...

I'm so amazed at the perception that had Keegan Bradley played on Saturday, he would have won. I mean, Poulter got hot late on Saturday afternoon - I'm not sure anybody would have stayed with him. If Bradley did play, he may have disrupted a decent winning team - remember the US won two games that afternoon and the day 5-3. And FWIW I think Love was correct in giving everyone at least two rounds on that course and resting people.

And even then, if Bradley was so hot, why was he beaten by McIlroy, who only just got to the course in time to hit a few putts and not even warm up? Could it be that Bradley's pan had been flashed already?

Why the hate for Mickelson? His chip at 17 was unbelievable. He got done by three one putts coming down the stretch - shit happens.

Why isn't it that people have not turned on Bubba Watson for being no more than a cheerleader on Sunday? The course had NO rough on it, it was set up for him to smash it anywhere and get home. He choked. Why no hate for Snedeker, who choked? Why no hate for Simpson, who choked so badly, he shanked a ball!!??

Monday morning QB's...there ya go. DL3 is playing at the Shriners today - would assume he'll be hecked on the tee.

Next Ryder Cup captains - Justin Leonard and Paul McGinley.

[Nosevi]

Originally Posted by Joakim

....... USA had substantial higher PGA rankings compared to Europe (see below), ..........

With these advantages the only mitigating factor is how you manage them. I am very excited and lookng forward to 2014 and beyond.

Europe players are getting older and this RC gave USA some much needed experience.

Joakim, I'm going to go out on a limb here and point out a slight flaw in your thinking, in fact in the thinking of many of your compatriots. Some of your points are good, I agree with them, but I think the US public in general underestimate golf outside the US in a big way. It's a little like the banter I was having a while back when someone said The Open Championship (British Open, whatever you want to call it) is only relevant because a US player years back had decided it is relevant. Ok I like Arnold Palmer but to say this is so condescending it's untrue and speaks volumes about the perception of world golf to some people your side of the pond. Many Americans feel that all the Majors should be on US soil, as if the PGA Tour is the only golf out there. I think many truely felt that you had a much stronger team - full of stars - which was against some European guys you only fleetingly see with only the odd star amongst them. Thing is, the likes of McIlroy, Donald and Westwood do play on the PGA Tour, but unlike your players they play on the European Tour as well.

This isn't necesarily a strong criticism, it's just the way many Americans see sport. You have so many great games and sportsmen of your own that you don't really have to look further afield for great sporting acheivements and competition. You watch American Football, Baseball, Basketball etc. We watch 6 Nations Rugby, European Cup Football and the European Tour isn't just played in Europe. The European Tour plays in Europe, South Africa, Middle East, Far East including Australia.

I mentioned it earlier but here is a short clip from Sky that I recorded, hope you can hear the sound. I hope you'll agree that Jack knows a thing or two about coming down the stretch - listen to his take on things before play started on Sunday. People may criticise but he had it spot on. I really don't think the general US public really knew what the European boys were capable of and more to the point, I really don't think the US team did.

[Joakim]

ESure. No problem with this. And thanks - we have our share of morons too. (I agree with Euro has as many morons but we have a larger population and I would never put it in a Post) That said...

I'm so amazed at the perception that had Keegan Bradley played on Saturday, he would have won. I mean, Poulter got hot late on Saturday afternoon - I'm not sure anybody would have stayed with him. If Bradley did play, he may have disrupted a decent winning team - remember the US won two games that afternoon and the day 5-3. And FWIW I think Love was correct in giving everyone at least two rounds on that course and resting people. You agree with a move that was never done in Ryder history, I hope your the next Euro Ryder captain.

And even then, if Bradley was so hot, why was he beaten by McIlroy, who only just got to the course in time to hit a few putts and did not even warm up? Could it be that Bradley's pan had been flashed already? Stupid statemen (rory admitted it was no big deal ot warming up and probably helped him because he didn't need it and probably helped but I keep hearing this..

Why the hate for Mickelson? His chip at 17 was unbelievable. He got done by three one putts coming down the stretch - shit happens. Phil l lost in on 15 when he missed a 6 footer to go two up, also on the shot almost in the water on about a 170 foot shot,. He also lost it for demanding Keegan not play. Team was their concept, his demands were not team playing to win.

Why isn't it that people have not turned on Bubba Watson for being no more than a cheerleader on Sunday? The course had NO rough on it, it was set up for him to smash it anywhere and get home. He choked. Why no hate for Snedeker, who choked? Why no hate for Simpson, who choked so badly, he shanked a ball!!??

nil lost

Monday morning QB's there ya go....Hypocrite what are you doing here, monday morning Quarterbacking...  yet you criticize us about it, more hyprocrisy.. DL3 is playing at the Shriners today - would assume he'll be hecked on the tee.

Next Ryder Cup captains - Justin Leonard and Paul McGinley.e o Who cares, our younger better players will dominate your older players, NO Matter what captain we have.

Wow I am getting the Euro's true colors now. Such hypocrisy calling us Morons? "Bad Losers, why because we are debating actions that might have had an effect on the outcome. In 1999 I read constant criticism of Mark James. Nick Faldo even blasted him "see your news ararticle

Your media is the most unethical and critical outlet in the world. You have so many tabloids and paparrazi running around trying to get scandalous reports on anyone and everyone.

Faldo ready to end feud with Mark James

Nick Faldo insists his much-publicised row with 1999 Ryder Cup captain Mark James is over .

Seriuosly review most of the posts in thread, all have extremely rude comments from most European bloggers. I've already checked out your posts Shorty and your right at the top. Maybe shorty has you beat,

Seriously and Honestly as yourself if the UK lost in a collapse there would not be some debate. How come most Euro posts when we talk debatle decisions and outcome, the next post is comes from Euro and includes insults and "quit complaining, we just played better, WOW such insight and contribution. The facts remain.. We are going to kill you in two years. Oh sorry about that inappropriate comment but I was quoting Ian Poulter, classless.

FACTS.......

USA won first two days, USA had better driving and putting advantage, USA killed on the par 3's, USA had substantial higher PGA rankings compared to Europe (see below), USA had home field advantage, USA would have won this big if it was stroke play.

With these advantages the only mitigating factor is how you manage them. I am very excited and lookng forward to 2014 and beyond.

Europe players are getting older and this RC gave USA some much needed experience.

To all sorry for terse response, just went over this guys posts and what goes around can come back around.

[Joakim]

Originally Posted by Nosevi

Joakim, I'm going to go out on a limb here and point out a slight flaw in your thinking, in fact in the thinking of many of your compatriots. Some of your points are good, I agree with them, but I think the US public in general underestimate golf outside the US in a big way. It's a little like the banter I was having a while back when someone said The Open Championship (British Open, whatever you want to call it) is only relevant because a US player years back had decided it is relevant. Ok I like Arnold Palmer but to say this is so condescending it's untrue and speaks volumes about the perception of world golf to some people your side of the pond. Many Americans feel that all the Majors should be on US soil, as if the PGA Tour is the only golf out there. I think many truely felt that you had a much stronger team - full of stars - which was against some European guys you only fleetingly see with only the odd star amongst them. Thing is, the likes of McIlroy, Donald and Westwood do play on the PGA Tour, but unlike your players they play on the European Tour as well.

This isn't necesarily a strong criticism, it's just the way many Americans see sport. You have so many great games and sportsmen of your own that you don't really have to look further afield for great sporting acheivements and competition. You watch American Football, Baseball, Basketball etc. We watch 6 Nations Rugby, European Cup Football and the European Tour isn't just played in Europe. The European Tour plays in Europe, South Africa, Middle East, Far East including Australia.

I mentioned it earlier but here is a short clip from Sky that I recorded, hope you can hear the sound. I hope you'll agree that Jack knows a thing or two about coming down the stretch - listen to his take on things before play started on Sunday. People may criticise but he had it spot on. I really don't think the general US public really knew what the European boys were capable of and more to the point, I really don't think the US team did.

Originally Posted by Nosevi

Joakim, I'm going to go out on a limb here and point out a slight flaw in your thinking, in fact in the thinking of many of your compatriots. Some of your points are good, I agree with them, but I think the US public in general underestimate golf outside the US in a big way. It's a little like the banter I was having a while back when someone said The Open Championship (British Open, whatever you want to call it) is only relevant because a US player years back had decided it is relevant. Ok I like Arnold Palmer but to say this is so condescending it's untrue and speaks volumes about the perception of world golf to some people your side of the pond. Many Americans feel that all the Majors should be on US soil, as if the PGA Tour is the only golf out there. I think many truely felt that you had a much stronger team - full of stars - which was against some European guys you only fleetingly see with only the odd star amongst them. Thing is, the likes of McIlroy, Donald and Westwood do play on the PGA Tour, but unlike your players they play on the European Tour as well.

This isn't necesarily a strong criticism, it's just the way many Americans see sport. You have so many great games and sportsmen of your own that you don't really have to look further afield for great sporting acheivements and competition. You watch American Football, Baseball, Basketball etc. We watch 6 Nations Rugby, European Cup Football and the European Tour isn't just played in Europe. The European Tour plays in Europe, South Africa, Middle East, Far East including Australia.

I mentioned it earlier but here is a short clip from Sky that I recorded, hope you can hear the sound. I hope you'll agree that Jack knows a thing or two about coming down the stretch - listen to his take on things before play started on Sunday. People may criticise but he had it spot on. I really don't think the general US public really knew what the European boys were capable of and more to the point, I really don't think the US team did.

Thanks for the sensible response. I totally agree, although we had a large crowd I was proud they applauded Europe as well as USA. The overall message I get from what you say is that Europe is more passionate about Golf and I agree with you. Most people here DVR'd the Ryder to watch football.

I appreciate the video and noted that he said "After looking at the matchups Europe has a good chance". That very well could be and indictment on how are match up were set up (DL3). Friendly banter and debate is what blogs are about.Unfortunatle I've been seeing several European cutting into our banter to shut up, move on because we beat you.

I want to express I appreciate your concise and well founded opinion.

[Nosevi]

Thanks for the sensible response. I totally agree, although we had a large crowd I was proud they applauded Europe as well as USA. The overall message I get from what you say is that Europe is more passionate about Golf and I agree with you. Most people here DVR'd the Ryder to watch football. I appreciate the video and noted that he said "After looking at the matchups Europe has a good chance". That very well could be and indictment on how are match up were set up (DL3). Friendly banter and debate is what blogs are about.Unfortunatle I've been seeing several European cutting into our banter to shut up, move on because we beat you. I want to express I appreciate your concise and well founded opinion.

Thanks.

[Monte the Bear]

Originally Posted by Joakim

Wow I am getting the Euro's true colors now. Such hypocrisy calling us Morons? "Bad Losers, why because we are debating actions that might have had an effect on the outcome. In 1999 I read constant criticism of Mark James. Nick Faldo even blasted him "see your news ararticle

Your media is the most unethical and critical outlet in the world. You have so many tabloids and paparrazi running around trying to get scandalous reports on anyone and everyone.

Faldo ready to end feud with Mark James

Nick Faldo insists his much-publicised row with 1999 Ryder Cup captain Mark James is over.

Seriuosly review most of the posts in thread, all have extremely rude comments from most European bloggers. I've already checked out your posts Shorty and your right at the top. Maybe shorty has you beat,

Seriously and Honestly as yourself if the UK lost in a collapse there would not be some debate. How come most Euro posts when we talk debatle decisions and outcome, the next post is comes from Euro and includes insults and "quit complaining, we just played better, WOW such insight and contribution. The facts remain.. We are going to kill you in two years. Oh sorry about that inappropriate comment but I was quoting Ian Poulter, classless.

FACTS.......

USA won first two days, USA had better driving and putting advantage, USA killed on the par 3's, USA had substantial higher PGA rankings compared to Europe (see below), USA had home field advantage, USA would have won this big if it was stroke play.

With these advantages the only mitigating factor is how you manage them. I am very excited and lookng forward to 2014 and beyond.

Europe players are getting older and this RC gave USA some much needed experience.

To all sorry for terse response, just went over this guys posts and what goes around can come back around.

Do you need to lie down, mate? You seem a bit troubled by all of this. It was only a golf game. You'll always have the Friday and Saturday.

I don't think anybody is calling you a moron until you start behaving like a moron.

I have no idea about that Faldo / James post. That just something you Googled and thought worthwhile c&p;'ing? James is a wanker, Faldo is not much better, although he did help to end Ray Floyd's, Greg Norman's and Scott Hoch's careers. He does have that going for him.

You are not having a debate - you are banging on about hypotheticals as if they are fact. That's not a debate - that's called religious fundamentalism. That IS moronic.

Our media is unethical and grotesque, especially those owned by News Corporation, an American Company and stewarded by Rupert Murdoch, a US Citizen. However I am unaware of any paparazzi trying to get up-skirt shots of Nicolas Colsearts.

I don't think you will kill us in two years - but you may beat us. Of course, we'll be playing on a golf course and not a glorified driving range-cum-putting green, so your long hitters will also have to be straight. Good luck with that.

Can't deny the facts about the Day 1 and 2 - you beat us in two sessions and we could only draw in the other two. Then you got truly hammered, crushed, humiliated. Smashed like an old guitar at a Who concert. Yu did have home field advantage, this is quite obvious, we watched it. It was in Illinois. We know where that is - it used to be quite a loud place. A bit more quiet now.

So you have more players higher ranked in PGA stats...is this because all of your players play on the PGA tour and some of ours do not? Just asking, seems plausible.

USA would have won big if it was stroke play eh? You should petition to have the competition rules changed. It could be a strokeplay event, on a course with no trees, rough or bunkers. Europeans would have to carry their own clubs, play with Balata balls and at the end of each session, the European team member who played the best would have a finger broken for DARING to beat an American.

FMD.

[Nosevi]

Hi Monte. Ever thought of being an ambassador, mate? My old man used to work in the British Embasy in DC, could have used some tips. :) Just kidding around. Does it matter if our American cousins go back over it and try to work out where it all went wrong? Try to find that magic ingredient. Doesn't bother me a jot. I'll even add my thoughts, one of which is that they don't generally watch European golf that much so only see the likes of Paul Lawrie on the very rare occasion he nips across the Atlantic. I could point out that our good golfers aren't really getting any older, what's Matteo Manassero now? 18? 19 maybe? Give it two years and he might be up there, you never know. Or that choosing a firey captain isn't necessarily how we've won all but one of the Ryder Cups this century. No, I'd rather sit back and wait for 2014 at Gleneagles, possibly our best chance of beating the US in a while. And for our US friends take that as friendly banter and see you all in Scotland. As long as there isn't American Football on the other side. Unbelievable! :-)

[Johnhw2]

I think nearly everyone is missing a huge factor in RC's. Am I the only one who believes there are players who excel in match play who may not be the best in stroke play events? Ian P and  Collin M are two examples of RC dominators who never won majors in stroke play. How can one explain that dominance in match play other than they are match play tigers?  Ive seen match players who are amateurs and are nearly impossible to beat in match play but can be handled in stroke play by the same player they beat in match play.

Our formula of picking 4 captains picks makes it critical we pick players who are match play tigers..... not just on form in stroke play. Hunter over Furyk is but one example of an error in selection.

Captains need to motivate too and not just be someone who asks the players what do you want to do? Last nighton Golf channel in an interview, DL3 said he didnt want to be the type captain pushing the guys to win for him, he thought that put to much pressure on them.  Why then did most euro players I heard say, we wanted to win this for JMO? I contend the captain who is their leader and with them on a personal level in this event needs to be a force they respect and want to win for..... RC matches are all about pressure...wanting to win for the Captain isnt more pressure. The captain needs to be adjusting to events and play as it un folds and not just have a plan to follow no matter what.

This isnt about bashing DL3, its about how do we turn around the long term trend of getting beat by Euro team.. we need to adjust our thinking and way of operating. Just because we havent had many repeat captains in the past doesnt mean we need to do this forever....adjust!..... the RC is no longer an exhibition match,  team Euro is outstanding. How is it they have so many clutch pressure players on Sunday when we dont?

[Monte the Bear]

Originally Posted by Nosevi

Hi Monte. Ever thought of being an ambassador, mate? My old man used to work in the British Embasy in DC, could have used some tips. :)

Just kidding around. Does it matter if our American cousins go back over it and try to work out where it all went wrong? Try to find that magic ingredient. Doesn't bother me a jot. I'll even add my thoughts, one of which is that they don't generally watch European golf that much so only see the likes of Paul Lawrie on the very rare occasion he nips across the Atlantic. I could point out that our good golfers aren't really getting any older, what's Matteo Manassero now? 18? 19 maybe? Give it two years and he might be up there, you never know. Or that choosing a firey captain isn't necessarily how we've won all but one of the Ryder Cups this century. No, I'd rather sit back and wait for 2014 at Gleneagles, possibly our best chance of beating the US in a while.

And for our US friends take that as friendly banter and see you all in Scotland. As long as there isn't American Football on the other side. Unbelievable!

I'd make a GREAT ambassador: do nothing but get invited to parties and sort out a few idiots who have lost their passports. Easy money.

I'm not that bothered about the Americans going on about how they screwed it up - suffice to say I don't think that their best is any better than our best or their worst is any worse than our worst. US just got dusted on the day - could have gone the other way. Difference between them and us is that we'd leave it all behind the next day. I fail to see the lack of respect shown to the Europeans, or to Mickelson for his sporting gestures - I think this is a dangerous precedent, but then again, I'm not a fan of Scottsdale either. DL3 is a decent man who is now being second-guessed by people who could not operate in their jobs in the consistently-excellent way he has. The criticism of Woods and Molinari is stupifyingly ridiculous.

That said, Jason Dufner...you'd buy him a beer. What a player.

Fiery captains work in the USA, didn't work out with Pavin or old Cavalry Hat himself. Always thought the more considerate, quiet captains did it better. Stockton was great. Shame Larry Nelson never got the gig. I reckon Leonard will get it - he's been there, done that, knows the player and he's a bit of a prick. I like McGinley, has been there, done that. Quietly goes about his business. I think DC is too emotional.

I don't mind NFL - I once sat next to a bloke on an internal flight from LAX to NY and he was a player, John Riggins. Was a runner. Spoke to him at length about the game. He had a face like a potato, but the discipline of these teams is apparently unbelieveable. They could teach our footballers a bit.

All best

MtD

[Monte the Bear]

Originally Posted by Johnhw2

I think nearly everyone is missing a huge factor in RC's. Am I the only one who believes there are players who excel in match play who may not be the best in stroke play events? Ian P and  Collin M are two examples of RC dominators who never won majors in stroke play. How can one explain that dominance in match play other than they are match play tigers?  Ive seen match players who are amateurs and are nearly impossible to beat in match play but can be handled in stroke play by the same player they beat in match play.

Our formula of picking 4 captains picks makes it critical we pick players who are match play tigers..... not just on form in stroke play. Hunter over Furyk is but one example of an error in selection.

Captains need to motivate too and not just be someone who asks the players what do you want to do? Last nighton Golf channel in an interview, DL3 said he didnt want to be the type captain pushing the guys to win for him, he thought that put to much pressure on them.  Why then did most euro players I heard say, we wanted to win this for JMO? I contend the captain who is their leader and with them on a personal level in this event needs to be a force they respect and want to win for..... RC matches are all about pressure...wanting to win for the Captain isnt more pressure. The captain needs to be adjusting to events and play as it un folds and not just have a plan to follow no matter what.

This isnt about bashing DL3, its about how do we turn around the long term trend of getting beat by Euro team.. we need to adjust our thinking and way of operating. Just because we havent had many repeat captains in the past doesnt mean we need to do this forever....adjust!..... the RC is no longer an exhibition match,  team Euro is outstanding. How is it they have so many clutch pressure players on Sunday when we dont?

Food for thought, John. I have a view that although the Europeans want to win, they also are not afraid to lose. This sounds strange, but if you go out there without any expectation other than to give it your best shot. In Europe, we expect the USA to always win it - the vast majority of US players on the PGA tour kind of dictates this, even if we do have players now on there and doing well. But then when we get to play the US, we find that on some days...we're just better at getting it done. And I think this is a pressure thing.

That's all I have. Can't think of anything else other than that it is a pressure thing. I refuse to believe your players 'don't want it enough' - watch the closing ceremony and look at the looks on those players faces...don't think they are not hurting? I'd have had those blokes in the locker room after that and told them to remember what this feels like, so that in two years time, they can draw off of the experience.

[newtogolf]

Based on match play, DL3 should have taken Hunter, he won the only PGA Tour Match Play tournament this year.  No one said said DL3 wasn't a decent man.  He made mistakes in his captains picks and team strategy.  People here and on sports media outlets are calling him out on it, nothing wrong with that imo.

In the US we don't sweep our failures under the carpet, we analyze why we failed to ensure we don't make the same mistakes next time, and hopefully we won't.  I'm sure DL3 and future RC captains learned something from this years events.  Maybe Phil and Keegan did too.  Keegan is a pro golfer and peer to Phil, he needs to learn to speak his mind and not allow Phil or any other pro to speak for him if it's not in line with his thinking.

As for the Europeans, our analysis and critique of the US decisions isn't intended to take anything away from their victory.  The Europeans came out and won on Sunday, they deserve to hold on to the Cup.  On a side note, I became an Ian Poulter fan last weekend because of the intensity and competitveness he displayed the entire weekend, great captains pick!

[WWBDD]

I predict this thread to be going strong for another 2 years.

[Johnhw2]

Originally Posted by Monte the Bear

Food for thought, John. I have a view that although the Europeans want to win, they also are not afraid to lose. This sounds strange, but if you go out there without any expectation other than to give it your best shot. In Europe, we expect the USA to always win it - the vast majority of US players on the PGA tour kind of dictates this, even if we do have players now on there and doing well. But then when we get to play the US, we find that on some days...we're just better at getting it done. And I think this is a pressure thing.

That's all I have. Can't think of anything else other than that it is a pressure thing. I refuse to believe your players 'don't want it enough' - watch the closing ceremony and look at the looks on those players faces...don't think they are not hurting? I'd have had those blokes in the locker room after that and told them to remember what this feels like, so that in two years time, they can draw off of the experience.

I dont disagree with your view point at all.

How is it Westwood, Kaymer and Hansen who came in not on form, managed to win on Sunday when the pressure was on? Is that just golf and the rub of the green? If sos how does one explain the significant lead in wins Euro has over the last few decades? I believe the teams are evenly matched talent wise and that adding Hunter or Rickie over Furyk and maybe even Stricker would not change the talent between team.... both are still even as I see it. So how do three players not on form play so well on Sunday in the bare nakedness of singles?

But this is just one event, rub of the green can explain it but take the last 10 RC's where Euro has out performed us in pressure with both teams equal in talent over this period? This is a trend...what is driving the trend? So you agree with DL3 that lowering the pressure on the players is the way to get the best from them?

Are you saying we put too high expectations on our teams over th past few decades and that is why  Euro has dominated us?

[Nosevi]

Originally Posted by Johnhw2

I dont disagree with your view point at all.

How is it Westwood, Kaymer and Hansen who came in not on form, managed to win on Sunday when the pressure was on? Is that just golf and the rub of the green? If sos how does one explain the significant lead in wins Euro has over the last few decades? I believe the teams are evenly matched talent wise and that adding Hunter or Rickie over Furyk and maybe even Stricker would not change the talent between team.... both are still even as I see it. So how do three players not on form play so well on Sunday in the bare nakedness of singles?

But this is just one event, rub of the green can explain it but take the last 10 RC's where Euro has out performed us in pressure with both teams equal in talent over this period? This is a trend...what is driving the trend? So you agree with DL3 that lowering the pressure on the players is the way to get the best from them?

Are you saying we put too high expectations on our teams over th past few decades and that is why  Euro has dominated us?

Peter Hansen didn't win on Sunday, he lost to Dufner, but I take your point. I personally agree with Monte but think it goes one stage further. Dare I say, there's a difference between inner passion and outward hype. When Poults is fist pumping and his eyes are popping out of his head I get the feeling it's the inner passion coming to the surface. When the US team were stiring up the crowd I get the feeling they were trying to feel passionate about it. I think the Ryder Cup does mean more to some of the European Players than the US  players. I'm not saying they don't care or anything - they care a great deal more than I do, but I just get the feeling they don't care in the same way as the European guys.

Again, taking words from Jack Nicklaus who was asked on British TV about how Tiger was when Jack was President's Cup captain. Jack said, and I'll paraphrase,  'He was a great team player, came to every meeting, every dinner, every breakfast, really got involved but you know what, I just don't think his heart was in it.'   I don't know why but the European boys seem to value the team element more than the US players. Some of our players have said that being on the Ryder Cup team means more to them than anything else in golf and they're including the Majors in that. You never know, what happened this time may have been the best thing that could have happened to your guys, getting beaten in the manner they were, because you know what - they don't half care about it now. Roll on 2014, think we better bring our A game to that one!

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by Johnhw2

Hunter Mahan has a winning Ryder Cup record.... so you certainly missed the argument some of us put forth for match play tigers being needed not stroke play champs in good form. Otherwise, Kaymer, Hansen and even Westwood for team Euro wouldnt have won under the intense pressure on Sunday over the fine formed US members. We continue to ignore that fire in the belly, match play tigers are more important than current stroke forum ....

The point that Hunter has a winning RC record and no one on our team did was noticed by even some in the press.and by JMO who was surprised Hunter wasnt picked for our team. Hunter played good at East Lake and tied for low round there with Webb....

Well then, I certainly would have been on board with that part of the discussion had I seen it

Originally Posted by Joakim

Honestly. I thought that the night before and I was afraid leading off with Bubba but I still thought we would win.

Not for nothin' (since I can't prove it), but I was saying all morning (before and after the matches started) that I fully expected Bubba to get whooped pretty bad.  I figured that "steady" would win that race.  But to Bubba's credit, he gave a great effort in trying to secure a half point by the time it seemed the match was over.

Originally Posted by WWBDD

I predict this thread to be going strong for another 2 years.

Hell yeah, but I kinda like it.  The event was worthy of a lengthy--even if at times unreasonable--thread.

[misty_mountainhop]

Originally Posted by Joakim

Answer one question. WOULD THE EURO TEAM HAVE DONE THAT IN EUROPE. Their fans boo us, call Tiger athe "N" word,  throw things at us. If one of their players did what Phil did the Brits fans would SLAM him for the rest his life.

We need more fire and less Bi-partisan, that's why they call it home field advantage, which applies in all sports.

Oh my. When have European golf fans ever called Woods that? Time and place please. Don't give me that nonsense about us Brits and how we'd slam MIckleson if he was one of ours either. I though we were renowned for that sort of sportsmanship? Don't we normally get pilloried for that sort of 'good sport loser' sort of thing?