2012 Ryder Cup Discussion Thread

[Lefty-Golfer]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

I disagree with this, but I get it.  You always want the star player to be the hero, and you always want them to demand the ball.  If you coached the Lakers, you would worry the first time Kobe said "you better pass it to Metta, I am not feeling it tonight."  But in certain situations, that is not always the prudent play.  The first that comes to mind is the star pitcher who is always going to want the ball (or at least say so to the media) in the playoffs on 3 days rest.  He wants to be the hero, but it's up to the manager to know that, historically, pitchers rarely perform well on 3 days rest, so its usually a bad idea.  We learned this weekend that the same thing is true in the Ryder Cup.  I don't remember the exact record, but they said that players who play in all 4 team sessions rarely win on Sunday.  DLIII was well aware of that, and he said that it was his intention for nobody to play 5 matches.  So why would you be mentally prepared to play Saturday afternoon if you already knew that you weren't going to?  In my opinion, it's that type of prudence and honestly that separates an experienced team player from an overly confident young one.  Additionally, when you have that kind of experience you HAVE to have that prudence because your coach is going to trust you more.  He will be a lot more apt to take you at your word than a rookie who is flooding with OVER-confidence and is apt to say what he thinks the coach/media/guys-on-golf-forums want to hear.

I also liked seeing Phil appreciate Justin Rose's good play over the last few holes, as others on here have mentioned they didn't like.  It showed class and appreciation, I thought.  Nothing more, nothing less.

couple things - according to golf channel Americans since 1979 who played all 5 rounds are 17-11-7 in singles. Phil and Keegan won the first 3 matches in 44 holes total...so they shouldn't be that tired. The manager (Capt for this event but the same role) asked them to play, in doing so he had obviously decieded they were able and his best option. i appreciate your opinions but in this case i don't agree with them..and i honestly hate to say that.

I had no problem with Phil's reaction to the Rose putt and i don't believe for a minute the reaction changed anything that would have happened on 18.

[phan52]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

So, basically, the exact same thing Tiger did yesterday?  (Except it cost them the loss vs. the tie)

I think Molinari wa a bit confused about the situation, but I think it was incumbent on Olazabel to go out on the green and go "good-good" when they both had three footers left. But he doesn't have that in him. Olazabel doesn't strike me as the conciliatory type.

[Wansteadimp]

Originally Posted by VOX

No but may have cost them the win vs. tie and several of Jack's teammates were angry with him. Captain Snead never forgave Jack for possibly costing him the win. That was also during a time when the Cup had not been competitive for decades. The US been Great Britain every two years so it was a gracious act.

I think that cup had descended into pretty ugly gamesmanship (Seve v Zinger x 10) on both sides and tempers were very high. Snead wanted to rub GB&I;'s nose in it (and likewise no doubt). Jack was under strict orders not to give an inch.

Which is why it was such a classy gesture.

[zipazoid]

Originally Posted by Pablo68

My point EXACTLY. Play with fire from start to finish.

As you said, nearly the whole team played 'uninspired'. Did they think no way we lose this or was there fear of losing it? Either way, their attitude lost it.

I don't think for a second any player on either side played uninspired.

You all do realize this came down to, basically one putt, right? If Kaymer missed that putt on 18 we may have been saying these same ridiculous comments about the Euros being 'uninspired'.

Come on. That was 24 of the best players on the planet going at it. Someone had to lose. And for USA to lose to a team that included McIlroy, McDowell, Poulter etc is nothing to be ashamed of.

[phan52]

Originally Posted by Wansteadimp

I think that cup had descended into pretty ugly gamesmanship (Seve v Zinger x 10) on both sides and tempers were very high. Snead wanted to rub GB&I;'s nose in it (and likewise no doubt). Jack was under strict orders not to give an inch.

Which is why it was such a classy gesture.

I wonder what Kuchar was thinking when he made Westwood make a 10" putt. Classless, especially from a guy who was getting his ass handed to him.

[phan52]

Originally Posted by zipazoid

I don't think for a second any player on either side played uninspired.

You all do realize this came down to, basically one putt, right? If Kaymer missed that putt on 18 we may have been saying these same ridiculous comments about the Euros being 'uninspired'.

Come on. That was 24 of the best players on the planet going at it. Someone had to lose. And for USA to lose to a team that included McIlroy, McDowell, Poulter etc is nothing to be ashamed of.

I honestly have to question what you were watching yesterday. The American team was on their heels all day and, sadly, the crowd followed suit. It was just the opposite on Friday and most of Saturday.

[ScouseJohnny]

Originally Posted by zipazoid

I don't think for a second any player on either side played uninspired.

I think the moment I knew the European team had it in the bag was watching Jim Furyk's putting palaver. I feel sorry for the bloke, especially how dejected he seemed after that last putt. Not about being uninspired, but just being too cautious...eyeing up a putt from every conceivable angle for 5 minutes, addressing the ball multiple times and then walking away for another look...sometimes you just have to grasp the nettle and know that you're going to hear the noise of the ball hitting the bottom of the cup a second or two after the putter head strikes it. Poor chap, he psyched himself out.

[Darbyogill]

Phil mickelson and tiger, perfect sportsmen,.

[Chas]

Originally Posted by MSchott

I'm sorry but that's a total croc of crap. Attitude doesn't win golf matches, hitting shots and making putts does. Do you really think if Mickelson hadn't applauded Rose's putt on 17 Rose wouldn't have made the birdie on 18? On Sunday the US did not hit the shots or make the putts. IMO it's never a bad thing to be graciou

If 'attitude" doesn't win, or help to win, golf matches - or any other competitive sport for that matter - then why do all coaches work on the attitude of their team at every opportunity during a tournament?  According to you, they don't know what they're doing.

If you polled professional golfers, I suspect that almost all of them would agree with the notion that "attitude is a significant factor in whether a player wins or loses a competition".  Somehow I don't think you'd be fit to manage/coach any sort of competitive event in just about any sport.  But that's OK - I assume you aren't a coach in any sport ..... are you?

But I agree with you about Michelson's sporting gesture to Rose - we need MORE OF THAT in golf, not less.  There are some (not you of course) who think that such behavior is inconsistent with having the strongest willl to win (i.e. the most competitive "attitude").  Ridiculous.

Phil:  you showed real class again yesterday.  Pity there aren't more like you in professional golf.

[Joakim]

Originally Posted by MSchott

I'm sorry but that's a total croc of crap. Attitude doesn't win golf matches, hitting shots and smaking putts does. Do you really think if Mickelson hadn't applauded Rose's putt on 17 Rose wouldn't have made the birdie on 18? On Sunday the US did not hit the shots or make the putts. IMO it's never a bad thing to be gracious.

Would Poulter, Mcilroy or any of EURO team applaud their competitor giving them extra confidence in the middle of a match? I've never seen that happen during play. Also, Sat. he whined that he and Keegan couldnt play 4th match. He's old but Keegan with Tiger instead of SS would have given US 11-5 lead. DL3 is the captain and he let a spoiled whinning proven Ryder loser make stupid decisions. SS stinks, Tiger had the best score over first two days if Tour play. Losers , #1 DL3, #2 PM, #3, SS & JF.

[Jimmy3putts]

Originally Posted by Darbyogill

Phil mickelson and tiger, perfect sportsmen,.

I've always said, Mickleson is a classy bloke. Woods.......uumm.

[zipazoid]

Originally Posted by phan52

I honestly have to question what you were watching yesterday. The American team was on their heels all day and, sadly, the crowd followed suit. It was just the opposite on Friday and most of Saturday.

That had to do with pressure, not attitude.

Or perhaps strategy. They were playing with the lead, so maybe they played more defensively. But I don't believe for a moment they were uninspired.

[Lefty-Golfer]

Originally Posted by ScouseJohnny

I think the moment I knew the European team had it in the bag was watching Jim Furyk's putting palaver. I feel sorry for the bloke, especially how dejected he seemed after that last putt. Not about being uninspired, but just being too cautious...eyeing up a putt from every conceivable angle for 5 minutes, addressing the ball multiple times and then walking away for another look...sometimes you just have to grasp the nettle and know that you're going to hear the noise of the ball hitting the bottom of the cup a second or two after the putter head strikes it. Poor chap, he psyched himself out.

sadly i kind of agree with this...i would be courious of his thoughts but to date he hasn't satopped coughing long enough to give an interview...ok that is a cheap shot, i appologize in advance.

[Wansteadimp]

Originally Posted by Joakim

Would Poulter, Mcilroy or any of EURO team applaud their competitor giving them extra confidence in the middle of a match? I've never seen that happen during play. Also, Sat. he whined that he and Keegan couldnt play 4th match. He's old but Keegan with Tiger instead of SS would have given US 11-5 lead. DL3 is the captain and he let a spoiled whinning proven Ryder loser make stupid decisions. SS stinks, Tiger had the best score over first two days if Tour play. Losers, #1 DL3, #2 PM, #3, SS & JF.

The concept that a player gets extra confidence from his opponent applauding is totally bogus. I think Rose was pretty much at max confidence to hole the putt in the first place.

You're also assuming that Tiger wouldn't have pulled Keegan down to his level, certainly no guarantee of a win.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Golfer

couple things - according to golf channel Americans since 1979 who played all 5 rounds are 17-11-7 in singles. Phil and Keegan won the first 3 matches in 44 holes total...so they shouldn't be that tired. The manager (Capt for this event but the same role) asked them to play, in doing so he had obviously decieded they were able and his best option.

Interesting.  Not at all what I remembered hearing on NBC on Saturday, but that wouldn't be the first time that something was reported wrong, or it could have just been me hearing wrong.  (Wouldn't be the first time for that either)  Either way, that only changes it a little for me.  I would tend to agree with you that he shouldn't have been tired and should have been able to go out there again, if asked.  However, I still say that it is better for him to be honest to his captain and his team and if he thinks he's too tired to perform, then say so.  It's not like our other options are bad golfers.  It would be worse (to me) for him to lie and say he's ready while a rested and ready to go Dustin Johnson/Matt Kuchar team (or whichever team they were to replace) sits on the bench and watches.

Originally Posted by Lefty-Golfer

i appreciate your opinions but in this case i don't agree with them..and i honestly hate to say that.

Why?  These discussions are what makes this forum fun.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by ScouseJohnny

Not about being uninspired, but just being too cautious...eyeing up a putt from every conceivable angle for 5 minutes, addressing the ball multiple times and then walking away for another look...sometimes you just have to grasp the nettle and know that you're going to hear the noise of the ball hitting the bottom of the cup a second or two after the putter head strikes it. Poor chap, he psyched himself out.

Yes!  1000 times yes!  It wasn't a lack of inspiration, or "want."  It was this ^^^.  And you are right that it was especially prevalent with Jim Furyk.  I think I even say him laying on the ground (or almost - sort of Spiderman style) trying to line up his and his partners putts.

[zipazoid]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Yes!  1000 times yes!  It wasn't a lack of inspiration, or "want."  It was this ^^^.  And you are right that it was especially prevalent with Jim Furyk.  I think I even say him laying on the ground (or almost - sort of Spiderman style) trying to line up his and his partners putts.

And then proceeded to miss the putt.

Very valid point. What Nicklaus & virtually every great golfer has espoused is, under pressure, do not change your routine .

[longbow]

Hey Golf Man which match did you watch?  The single most stupid post is yours trying to analyze what Love was trying to do.  What his strategy did was cost us the Ryder Cup which isn't to hard to see.  I mean 4.5 points is what he had to win.  These choke monsters couldn't even do that.  I mean he didn't realize that the Euro's were going to try and start hard and fast?  Give me a break.  When the U.S. players had to hit shots and make putts count they just plain didn't.  As we saw the first 2 days don't win the Cup.  The U.S. was just pathetic.  Plain and simple.  Any other way of looking at it is trying to find a bright spot on a day when there were none.  The U.S. choked for whatever reason.   The worst playing performance  by a U.S. team I've ever witnessed and that is being kind and this is pretty much the outlook on all the sports channels, new articles etc.etc.  These guys play at the highest levels and didn't get it done when they needed to get it done.