Jump to content
IGNORED

2012 Ryder Cup Discussion Thread


mvmac
Note: This thread is 4224 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Recommended Posts

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

I disagree with this, but I get it.  You always want the star player to be the hero, and you always want them to demand the ball.  If you coached the Lakers, you would worry the first time Kobe said "you better pass it to Metta, I am not feeling it tonight."  But in certain situations, that is not always the prudent play.  The first that comes to mind is the star pitcher who is always going to want the ball (or at least say so to the media) in the playoffs on 3 days rest.  He wants to be the hero, but it's up to the manager to know that, historically, pitchers rarely perform well on 3 days rest, so its usually a bad idea.  We learned this weekend that the same thing is true in the Ryder Cup.  I don't remember the exact record, but they said that players who play in all 4 team sessions rarely win on Sunday.  DLIII was well aware of that, and he said that it was his intention for nobody to play 5 matches.  So why would you be mentally prepared to play Saturday afternoon if you already knew that you weren't going to?  In my opinion, it's that type of prudence and honestly that separates an experienced team player from an overly confident young one.  Additionally, when you have that kind of experience you HAVE to have that prudence because your coach is going to trust you more.  He will be a lot more apt to take you at your word than a rookie who is flooding with OVER-confidence and is apt to say what he thinks the coach/media/guys-on-golf-forums want to hear.

I also liked seeing Phil appreciate Justin Rose's good play over the last few holes, as others on here have mentioned they didn't like.  It showed class and appreciation, I thought.  Nothing more, nothing less.

couple things - according to golf channel Americans since 1979 who played all 5 rounds are 17-11-7 in singles. Phil and Keegan won the first 3 matches in 44 holes total...so they shouldn't be that tired. The manager (Capt for this event but the same role) asked them to play, in doing so he had obviously decieded they were able and his best option. i appreciate your opinions but in this case i don't agree with them..and i honestly hate to say that.

I had no problem with Phil's reaction to the Rose putt and i don't believe for a minute the reaction changed anything that would have happened on 18.

Driver- Callaway Razor somthing or other
3W- Taylor Made R11S
3H Rocketballz
4I-PW- MP-59
Gap- Vokey 54

Lob- Cleveland 60

Putter- Rife

Skycaddie SG5  

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Originally Posted by Golfingdad

So, basically, the exact same thing Tiger did yesterday?  (Except it cost them the loss vs. the tie)

I think Molinari wa a bit confused about the situation, but I think it was incumbent on Olazabel to go out on the green and go "good-good" when they both had three footers left. But he doesn't have that in him. Olazabel doesn't strike me as the conciliatory type.

Bill M

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Originally Posted by VOX

No but may have cost them the win vs. tie and several of Jack's teammates were angry with him. Captain Snead never forgave Jack for possibly costing him the win. That was also during a time when the Cup had not been competitive for decades. The US been Great Britain every two years so it was a gracious act.

I think that cup had descended into pretty ugly gamesmanship (Seve v Zinger x 10) on both sides and tempers were very high. Snead wanted to rub GB&I;'s nose in it (and likewise no doubt). Jack was under strict orders not to give an inch.

Which is why it was such a classy gesture.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Originally Posted by Pablo68

My point EXACTLY. Play with fire from start to finish.

As you said, nearly the whole team played 'uninspired'. Did they think no way we lose this or was there fear of losing it? Either way, their attitude lost it.

I don't think for a second any player on either side played uninspired.

You all do realize this came down to, basically one putt, right? If Kaymer missed that putt on 18 we may have been saying these same ridiculous comments about the Euros being 'uninspired'.

Come on. That was 24 of the best players on the planet going at it. Someone had to lose. And for USA to lose to a team that included McIlroy, McDowell, Poulter etc is nothing to be ashamed of.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Originally Posted by Wansteadimp

I think that cup had descended into pretty ugly gamesmanship (Seve v Zinger x 10) on both sides and tempers were very high. Snead wanted to rub GB&I;'s nose in it (and likewise no doubt). Jack was under strict orders not to give an inch.

Which is why it was such a classy gesture.

I wonder what Kuchar was thinking when he made Westwood make a 10" putt. Classless, especially from a guy who was getting his ass handed to him.

Bill M

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Originally Posted by zipazoid

I don't think for a second any player on either side played uninspired.

You all do realize this came down to, basically one putt, right? If Kaymer missed that putt on 18 we may have been saying these same ridiculous comments about the Euros being 'uninspired'.

Come on. That was 24 of the best players on the planet going at it. Someone had to lose. And for USA to lose to a team that included McIlroy, McDowell, Poulter etc is nothing to be ashamed of.

I honestly have to question what you were watching yesterday. The American team was on their heels all day and, sadly, the crowd followed suit. It was just the opposite on Friday and most of Saturday.

Bill M

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Originally Posted by zipazoid

I don't think for a second any player on either side played uninspired.

I think the moment I knew the European team had it in the bag was watching Jim Furyk's putting palaver. I feel sorry for the bloke, especially how dejected he seemed after that last putt. Not about being uninspired, but just being too cautious...eyeing up a putt from every conceivable angle for 5 minutes, addressing the ball multiple times and then walking away for another look...sometimes you just have to grasp the nettle and know that you're going to hear the noise of the ball hitting the bottom of the cup a second or two after the putter head strikes it. Poor chap, he psyched himself out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Originally Posted by MSchott

I'm sorry but that's a total croc of crap. Attitude doesn't win golf matches, hitting shots and making putts does. Do you really think if Mickelson hadn't applauded Rose's putt on 17 Rose wouldn't have made the birdie on 18? On Sunday the US did not hit the shots or make the putts. IMO it's never a bad thing to be graciou

If 'attitude" doesn't win, or help to win, golf matches - or any other competitive sport for that matter - then why do all coaches work on the attitude of their team at every opportunity during a tournament?  According to you, they don't know what they're doing.

If you polled professional golfers, I suspect that almost all of them would agree with the notion that "attitude is a significant factor in whether a player wins or loses a competition".  Somehow I don't think you'd be fit to manage/coach any sort of competitive event in just about any sport.  But that's OK - I assume you aren't a coach in any sport ..... are you?

But I agree with you about Michelson's sporting gesture to Rose - we need MORE OF THAT in golf, not less.  There are some (not you of course) who think that such behavior is inconsistent with having the strongest willl to win (i.e. the most competitive "attitude").  Ridiculous.

Phil:  you showed real class again yesterday.  Pity there aren't more like you in professional golf.

Driver: Cobra 460SZ 9.0, med.
3 Wood: Taylor stiff
3-hybrid: Nike 18 deg stiff
4-hybrid:
Taylor RBZ 22 deg regular
Irons:5-9, Mizuno MP30, steel
Wedges: PW, 52, 56, 60 Mizuno MP30
Putter: Odyssey 2-ball

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Originally Posted by MSchott

I'm sorry but that's a total croc of crap. Attitude doesn't win golf matches, hitting shots and smaking putts does. Do you really think if Mickelson hadn't applauded Rose's putt on 17 Rose wouldn't have made the birdie on 18? On Sunday the US did not hit the shots or make the putts. IMO it's never a bad thing to be gracious.

Would Poulter, Mcilroy or any of EURO team applaud their competitor giving them extra confidence in the middle of a match? I've never seen that happen during play. Also, Sat. he whined that he and Keegan couldnt play 4th match. He's old but Keegan with Tiger instead of SS would have given US 11-5 lead. DL3 is the captain and he let a spoiled whinning proven Ryder loser make stupid decisions. SS stinks, Tiger had the best score over first two days if Tour play. Losers , #1 DL3, #2 PM, #3, SS & JF.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Originally Posted by phan52

I honestly have to question what you were watching yesterday. The American team was on their heels all day and, sadly, the crowd followed suit. It was just the opposite on Friday and most of Saturday.

That had to do with pressure, not attitude.

Or perhaps strategy. They were playing with the lead, so maybe they played more defensively. But I don't believe for a moment they were uninspired.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Originally Posted by ScouseJohnny

I think the moment I knew the European team had it in the bag was watching Jim Furyk's putting palaver. I feel sorry for the bloke, especially how dejected he seemed after that last putt. Not about being uninspired, but just being too cautious...eyeing up a putt from every conceivable angle for 5 minutes, addressing the ball multiple times and then walking away for another look...sometimes you just have to grasp the nettle and know that you're going to hear the noise of the ball hitting the bottom of the cup a second or two after the putter head strikes it. Poor chap, he psyched himself out.

sadly i kind of agree with this...i would be courious of his thoughts but to date he hasn't satopped coughing long enough to give an interview...ok that is a cheap shot, i appologize in advance.

Driver- Callaway Razor somthing or other
3W- Taylor Made R11S
3H Rocketballz
4I-PW- MP-59
Gap- Vokey 54

Lob- Cleveland 60

Putter- Rife

Skycaddie SG5  

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Originally Posted by Joakim

Would Poulter, Mcilroy or any of EURO team applaud their competitor giving them extra confidence in the middle of a match? I've never seen that happen during play. Also, Sat. he whined that he and Keegan couldnt play 4th match. He's old but Keegan with Tiger instead of SS would have given US 11-5 lead. DL3 is the captain and he let a spoiled whinning proven Ryder loser make stupid decisions. SS stinks, Tiger had the best score over first two days if Tour play. Losers, #1 DL3, #2 PM, #3, SS & JF.

The concept that a player gets extra confidence from his opponent applauding is totally bogus. I think Rose was pretty much at max confidence to hole the putt in the first place.

You're also assuming that Tiger wouldn't have pulled Keegan down to his level, certainly no guarantee of a win.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Originally Posted by Lefty-Golfer

couple things - according to golf channel Americans since 1979 who played all 5 rounds are 17-11-7 in singles. Phil and Keegan won the first 3 matches in 44 holes total...so they shouldn't be that tired. The manager (Capt for this event but the same role) asked them to play, in doing so he had obviously decieded they were able and his best option.

Interesting.  Not at all what I remembered hearing on NBC on Saturday, but that wouldn't be the first time that something was reported wrong, or it could have just been me hearing wrong.  (Wouldn't be the first time for that either)  Either way, that only changes it a little for me.  I would tend to agree with you that he shouldn't have been tired and should have been able to go out there again, if asked.  However, I still say that it is better for him to be honest to his captain and his team and if he thinks he's too tired to perform, then say so.  It's not like our other options are bad golfers.  It would be worse (to me) for him to lie and say he's ready while a rested and ready to go Dustin Johnson/Matt Kuchar team (or whichever team they were to replace) sits on the bench and watches.

Originally Posted by Lefty-Golfer

i appreciate your opinions but in this case i don't agree with them..and i honestly hate to say that.

Why?  These discussions are what makes this forum fun.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Originally Posted by ScouseJohnny

Not about being uninspired, but just being too cautious...eyeing up a putt from every conceivable angle for 5 minutes, addressing the ball multiple times and then walking away for another look...sometimes you just have to grasp the nettle and know that you're going to hear the noise of the ball hitting the bottom of the cup a second or two after the putter head strikes it. Poor chap, he psyched himself out.

Yes!  1000 times yes!  It wasn't a lack of inspiration, or "want."  It was this ^^^.  And you are right that it was especially prevalent with Jim Furyk.  I think I even say him laying on the ground (or almost - sort of Spiderman style) trying to line up his and his partners putts.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Yes!  1000 times yes!  It wasn't a lack of inspiration, or "want."  It was this ^^^.  And you are right that it was especially prevalent with Jim Furyk.  I think I even say him laying on the ground (or almost - sort of Spiderman style) trying to line up his and his partners putts.

And then proceeded to miss the putt.

Very valid point. What Nicklaus & virtually every great golfer has espoused is, under pressure, do not change your routine .

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Hey Golf Man which match did you watch?  The single most stupid post is yours trying to analyze what Love was trying to do.  What his strategy did was cost us the Ryder Cup which isn't to hard to see.  I mean 4.5 points is what he had to win.  These choke monsters couldn't even do that.  I mean he didn't realize that the Euro's were going to try and start hard and fast?  Give me a break.  When the U.S. players had to hit shots and make putts count they just plain didn't.  As we saw the first 2 days don't win the Cup.  The U.S. was just pathetic.  Plain and simple.  Any other way of looking at it is trying to find a bright spot on a day when there were none.  The U.S. choked for whatever reason.   The worst playing performance  by a U.S. team I've ever witnessed and that is being kind and this is pretty much the outlook on all the sports channels, new articles etc.etc.  These guys play at the highest levels and didn't get it done when they needed to get it done.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Note: This thread is 4224 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • TST Partners

    TourStriker PlaneMate
    Golfer's Journal
    ShotScope
    The Stack System
    FlightScope Mevo
    Direct: Mevo, Mevo+, and Pro Package.

    Coupon Codes (save 10-15%): "IACAS" for Mevo/Stack, "IACASPLUS" for Mevo+/Pro Package, and "THESANDTRAP" for ShotScope.
  • Posts

    • Did LIV pros cross ‘etiquette’ line at Masters? 3-time major winner has thought Did LIV Golf pros cross an “etiquette” line last month at the Masters? Three-time major winner Padraig Harrington has a thought. I do not mind cursing. I rather see some emotion on the course and honest reactions to bad shots or what not. I didn't catch it being a TON of cursing in this Masters. It was not noticeable. 
    • I had to think about this topic for a while. I don't tend to remember specific details about my putts, but a few do stand out in my mind so I guess they're worth noting. I don't know that I'd call them my favorite but it's close enough. #18 at Spooky Brook Might be the hardest 4' putt I've ever had. Pin was back right and I hit my third shot just to the right of it. The green slopes fairly severely back to front. I read the green but I knew the putt anyway as I've seen it before. I told the guys I was playing with that the putt was it was going to break almost 3' and if it doesn't go in I'd have a longer coming back up for par than I was looking at. It went in. #12 at Quail Brook I'm not even sure how to describe this green properly. It's not quite a two-tiered green, but the back and front are separated by a ridge that goes across the middle of it, with the green sloping harder off the front than the back. You can generally putt from the front to a back hole location but good luck keeping the ball on the green if you putt from back to front. On this particular day, I was looking at the latter. I had to putt up into the apron due to how the ball was going to break and that helped slow the ball down enough to hit the hole at the perfect speed. One of the rare birdies I've seen on that hole. #2 at Hyatt Hills Short par 5. This makes the list because it's the first eagle putt I've ever made, which funny enough happened the day after the first eagle I've ever made. I've made two eagles in all my life and they came on back to back days. I wasn't even planning on playing golf - it was a Monday - but I was doing some work at the place I used to work at when I was younger and catching up with some of the guys I've known for years. They were going out to play in the afternoon and had a spot available. I used to see these guys every day for years but we've never played together, so I said I'm in. I hit a really good approach shot into slope that separated the two tiers on the green and spun the ball closer to the hole. Had roughly 8' left to the hole, a downhill right to left breaker. One of the guys said, "You've got to make this, I've never seen an eagle before," and I said, "I've never made an eagle putt before." And then I made it. #17 at Stoneleigh @GolfLug's post reminded me of my own heroics on #17 a couple of years ago. The hole was back left, in the bottom tier. I hit my approach short of the green and flubbed my chip so it stayed on the top tier. I read how the putt was going to break after the ramp (is that what you call it?), then read my putt up to that point. It needed to basically die at that point because if it hit the slope with any kind of speed, it would long past the hole and possibly off the green. I hit the putt perfectly and holed the 40-footer center cup. #6 at Meadow at Neshanic Valley, #15 in the Round This was during the stroke play qualifier of my tournament. It might be a little bit of recency bias and I hit some really good long putts in the four rounds I played, but this 7-footer was my favorite putt of the entire tournament. The hole was cut on the top of a ridge. I hit my tee shot short right but hit a pretty good chip just long and below the hole. Play had backed up at this point, with the ladies waiting on the tee while we were finishing up. I hit the putt just a hair on the high side and it curled around the hole, fell back a couple of inches and stopped on lip. We all looked at it incredulously, "How does that not fall in?" Before I took my first step towards the hole, the ball must have thought the same thing and decided to drop.
    • I don't remember a ton of putts, but I've thought about this a bit and came up with 2 good ones. #5 at Mid-South: 2017 Newport Cup I remember the putt pretty well, but the surrounding details are a little hazy. I believe this was in my singles match against @cipher, and it was a hole he was stroking on. I had hit a mediocre approach to the front of the green and had what must have been a 50 foot putt to a back pin. If I remember correctly, @cipher was pretty close for an easy par at worst. I had @mvmac help me out with a read, which ended up being a great read by him. Hit the putt and jarred it for birdie. It was perfect speed, too, would have been an easy 2 putt if it hadn't gone in. I think we ended up tying for the hole. But I rarely make putts that long, and doing it to steal half a hole was really nice. #3 Fox Hollow (Links): 2023 Match Play This was on the third extra hole of a scratch match against a legitimate 0 handicapper. We had tied after 18 holes and traded pars on the first two extra holes. On the third extra hole, he had about 30 feet for birdie; I had about 25. We were on pretty much the exact same line. He missed his putt just on the low side, and I conceded the par. I felt good over this putt - I knew the break well and just needed good speed. I hit a great (not perfect) putt, and BAM, back of the cup for the victory on the 21st hole. I will say that the speed wasn't great, as it would have been a few feet past if it didn't hit the cup. But I wanted to give the ball a chance and take a bit of break out of it. I went on to win the match play tournament, which is my only tournament victory in a scratch event.
    • there will be lots of changes.  i mean, look at newey past, each team fell off a cliff when he moved on i think max is the magic bullet   if red bull loses him then whee are they going for drivers?   lots of young talent but he is a proven winner and i’m sure top engineers love to work with him  
    • I too, like @GolfLug, remember great wedge, iron shots, or my missed putts, more than my made putts. My most memorable recently, would be: #17 Old Course St. Andrews (last year) I had been putting awful all day (I started 3 putt, 4 putt, 3 putt, 3 putt), but found a putting stroke on the back 9 and was 1 under on the back going into 16 and of course I 3-putted it for a bogey. Got to 17 and my playing partner just hit it into the hotel, so I went a little more left and decided to not try and hit it over the hotel.  And as soon as my ball was in the air, I heard one of the other caddies do the chicken noise.  LOL My shot was a little more left than I wanted, about 185 yards, I hit a 6-iron and it was drawing right at the flag.  The pin was just to the right of he bunker and towards the front of the green. My ball hit short (and just missed going into said bunker) and stopped about 15 feet left of the hole. Had a little left to right break and as soon as I hit it, I knew it was in.  Birdie on the road hole, looked at the caddie and said not bad for a Chicken.  Parred 18 (missed 10 foot birdie putt) for a 35 on the back 9 at the Old Course. #18 Springfield G&CC Last year while playing in our season long match play event, my partner and I get the 18th hole needing to win the match to move on into the knockout round.  We are tied going into 18.  A tie and we lose on overall points by .5.  Our teaching pro is on the other team (very good golfer), so we were pretty sure we needed a birdie to have a chance to win the match, I hit on of the best drives I hit all day and had about 135 yards to the pin, but it was in a place where you didn't really want to be long.  So I hit a PW and it landed just short of the flag but released about 12 feet past the hole, so have a devilish putt coming back down the hill.  Our competitors were away and the pro missed his birdie putt by inches, I thought it was in when he hit it.  So after reading the putt, which probably had a 2 cup left to right break, I made the putt to win the match.   #15 Springfield G&CC A few years back, was playing in the first round of the Club Championship (against the previous years runner-up) and my putter was balky all day.  Got to the 15 hole, 2nd Par 5 on back, and was 3-down with 4 to play.  We both hit good drives, both hit good second shots and we both hit decent 3rd shots.  I was about 15 feet and he was just a hair longer.  He missed his putt, I had another slider putt down the hill, with about a foot of right to left break and made the putt.  I birded the next hole, to go 1 down, but not a memorable putt as I only needed a bogey to beat him on that hole, he had all kinds of issues going on.  Lost on 17, as he birdied it, right after I missed mine to lose 2&1.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to TST! Signing up is free, and you'll see fewer ads and can talk with fellow golf enthusiasts! By using TST, you agree to our Terms of Use, our Privacy Policy, and our Guidelines.

The popup will be closed in 10 seconds...