2012 Ryder Cup Discussion Thread

[Lefty-Golfer]

Originally Posted by Nosevi

Not sure that's completely true, yes he would do whatever he could to win, especially in the Ryder Cup, but there is a bit of 'niggle' in the Ryder cup and I'm not sure you can pin it on Seve.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monte the Bear

What a crock. Ya know what's responsible for it? Europe winning. And the on-course booze. And morons. On both sides.

Seve Ballesteros never called anything 'a war on the shore' or wore army camoflage kit. He didn't arrive on course looking like a dick in cavalry hat. He didn't conduct town hall meetings for the spectators prior to the tournament.

Jeez.

Originally Posted by misty_mountainhop

Don't be ridiculous.

Why was Europe added to the Cup instead of of just the UK? it is simple, the matches were no contest and interest was going to disappear. They brought in Europe to attempt to make them competative...enter Seve. he was a killer, he never cared about anything but winning, he was well known for his gamesmenship, he also inspired the other golfers...he said what he wanted - he made many enemies with his actions and made no appologies for them. Seve is the one who tweaked the American nose...on the course and off. One thing we should all agree on is if you tweek the US you are going to get a response, you may or may not like it or agree with it but you can be damn certain you are gonna get one!!

I don't have a problem with any of that...i am not the one who cares about it being a gentlemens game...i think way to many golfers are stuck with this believe. you can play honest and hard and fair lots of ways. I loved it when bubba was calling for noise to hit his first drive - didn't Poulter do the same?? guess what, both of those guys were able to find the fairway!!! i give golfers more credit then most of them give themselves. if you are concentrating or "in the zone" you shouldn't hear anything...just get in the moment and play the damn game.

stop being so soft and call a spade a spade

[Chas]

Wow, I'm glad we've got yet another golfer here who's apparently more experienced than Phil Mickelson at winning golf tournaments. I find it particularly funny to hear the "100%" criticism mixed with the talk of the importance of being a team player. Playing 100% when you're on a team does not mean demanding to play 100% of the time. If you recognize that you're in a situation where a teammate is likely to outperform you, if you're a smart team player you tell your coach/manager. To do otherwise isn't playing 100%, it isn't playing on the team, it's being a selfish, macho idiot. Sure, if the coach disagrees, you go out and give it everything, but you're not doing anyone any favors by mindlessly demanding playing time. If he was speaking on behalf of Bradley about that, maybe that's a mistake, but it's hard to say. DLIII could certainly have disagreed with him, and Bradley should have spoken up if he disagreed. Maybe he did.

You beat me to it Zeg - but only because I'm out here in sunny SoCal. Unfair advantage. Hard to believe that it is necessary to explain to a (presumed) sportsman why it can be wiser to recommend to the coach that you sit out a session. For the good of the team. You said it better than I probably would've. For some on this forum "it's all about me me me". These people would make lousy Captain's Picks, no matter how good they are. Grauniad [sic] - not my favorite Brit rag but there you go - got it right about Phil. I'll have to see what the Torygraph has to say .....

[Beachcomber]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Golfer

I don't have a problem with any of that...i am not the one who cares about it being a gentlemens game...i think way to many golfers are stuck with this believe. you can play honest and hard and fair lots of ways. I loved it when bubba was calling for noise to hit his first drive - didn't Poulter do the same?? guess what, both of those guys were able to find the fairway!!! i give golfers more credit then most of them give themselves. if you are concentrating or "in the zone" you shouldn't hear anything...just get in the moment and play the damn game.

stop being so soft and call a spade a spade

Sorry, just to set it straight... Poulter found the fairway bunker.  And Bubba was in the rough - just past the bunker.  Neither found the fairway.

[Chas]

My comments came from the perspective of having played team sports all my life.  When I played H.S. and college football the coach would have benched a guy for the season if he told him he didn't want to go in the 2nd half because he left it all on the field the first.  He'd also get benched for congratulating a defensive player for putting a great hit on our QB even if it was a really great hit.  When we played, the expectation was if you could walk, you could play and no one would pull themselves out unless they were severely injured.  Maybe it's different with golf because with the exception of Presidents Cup and Ryder Cup it's an individual sport so they don't share the same mentality as people in team sports.

Well ... ahem ... you obviously don't know much about the art of WINNING in a team sport. Of course, you always give 100% when you are actually playing, but you make intelligent decisions about when to take a time out if the opportunity presents itself. Of course the coach makes the ultimate decision, on advice. "If I can walk, I can play" is one of the dumbest thoughts I can imagine in this context. So be it. Your analogy with football says it all. No, golf isn't football, nor is it soccer where the professional foul and 'taking a dive' are the norm. Long may the differences remain.

[sacm3bill]

Originally Posted by ThominOH

What an amazing Ryder Cup.. I have to say, Jim F lost alot of brownie points this weekend.. His play was not stellar, but his attitude just rubbed me the wrong way..  Day 1, second hole and Jim challenges GMac in wanting relief from a sprinkler head.. I wonder if Jim ever heard of the word karma? ...

The sprinkler head lip was 5 inches behind GMac's ball. There's no possibility of him hitting his chip that fat. Asking for relief there was ridiculous - Furyk knew it, the head rules official knew it, and GMac knew it better than either of them. I'm surprised more wasn't made of this, either in the press or on this site.

I don't know if Jim knows the work "karma", but GMac sure as hell knows knows the word "cheater".

[Nosevi]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Golfer

Why was Europe added to the Cup instead of of just the UK? it is simple, the matches were no contest and interest was going to disappear. They brought in Europe to attempt to make them competative...enter Seve. he was a killer, he never cared about anything but winning, he was well known for his gamesmenship, he also inspired the other golfers...he said what he wanted - he made many enemies with his actions and made no appologies for them. Seve is the one who tweaked the American nose...on the course and off. One thing we should all agree on is if you tweek the US you are going to get a response, you may or may not like it or agree with it but you can be damn certain you are gonna get one!!

I don't have a problem with any of that...i am not the one who cares about it being a gentlemens game...i think way to many golfers are stuck with this believe. you can play honest and hard and fair lots of ways. I loved it when bubba was calling for noise to hit his first drive - didn't Poulter do the same?? guess what, both of those guys were able to find the fairway!!! i give golfers more credit then most of them give themselves. if you are concentrating or "in the zone" you shouldn't hear anything...just get in the moment and play the damn game.

stop being so soft and call a spade a spade

. Not being soft, mate. Just saying it like I see it. I think the Ryder cup has always been hard fought, and I've got no issue with that. I'd be happy with ongoing banter between the players but that's not really the done thing. Hardest fought matches I have are against my old man and phrases like "Be careful of the water", and "You really don't want to thin it out of this bunker." are common place and all part of the fun.

Why was Europe added? Thought it was because of the European Tour taking over as the tour our players were now all playing on. Sorry though, I'm too young to remember before it was Europe against the US. You're absolutely right anyway, no contest if we played the US coz we're the size of one of your states. Let me just check the singles scores a sec.......... Donald, Poulter, McIlroy, Rose, Lawrie, Westwood ......... Not bad for a 2 bit little island against the might of the US? Just pulling your leg, mate, get what you're saying.

Regarding the cheering during an opening tee shot, no issue at all, thought it added to the occasion. I practice on a range that often has kids groups having 'lively' lessons, which I think is great. The ammount of huffing and grumping you get, invariably from the older generation, just adds to the atmosphere. You'd think my venerable practice buddies were warming up for the bleedin Open or something (and for the record it's 'The Open', not the British Open, 'THE Open' :) ).

I'm new to golf and think some of the stuffiness surounding the game holds it back in it's appeal to the younger generation. No, change that, I know it does. I was a pretty keen Rugby player since the age of 8 till 3 1/2 years ago a serious knee injury put my leg in a cast then brace for 6 months and out of contact sports for life so took up golf instead. The 5.5 handicap there is my initial handicap because our golf union won't contemplate giving a Cat 1 handicap to a new golfer so I'll have to whittle it away in matches - no issue I guess. Got to say Rugby was just ever so slightly less stuffy.

As a last point, if anyone thinks the UK reaction was OTT when they came back from the defecit they did and achieved what they did, and was disrespectful of the players waiting on the fairway in the last match, do me a favour - replay the last hole from where Stricker lines up his putt, because I just have. For him - absolute silence. For Kaymer - cat calling, whistling, shouting. Got to say it was the only time the US crowd let itself down just a tad.

[Vermeer]

Originally Posted by Vermeer

Tell Tom Kite that !

Surely you can understand the difference between keeping the Cup and winning it ? Tiger can't but Kite can ! Retaining it is effectively a draw.

Originally Posted by jimdandy

Are you really this ignorant?? Did that massive European celebration look like a "draw" to you?

Lol, can't make this stuff up people.

The Europeans were celebrating because they had retained the cup. But winning the cup is better than retaining it surely?

I can understand you not agreeing with me and you have every right to. What I can't understand why you called me ignorant, but pehaps anyone who doesn't agree with your train of thought you  think are ignorant. If you think I'm ignorant because I don't agree with your thoughts on this subject,ergo you are ignorant of mine.

[Lefty-Golfer]

Originally Posted by Nosevi

. Not being soft, mate. Just saying it like I see it. I think the Ryder cup has always been hard fought, and I've got no issue with that. I'd be happy with ongoing banter between the players but that's not really the done thing. Hardest fought matches I have are against my old man and phrases like "Be careful of the water", and "You really don't want to thin it out of this bunker." are common place and all part of the fun.

Why was Europe added? Thought it was because of the European Tour taking over as the tour our players were now all playing on. Sorry though, I'm too young to remember before it was Europe against the US. You're absolutely right anyway, no contest if we played the US coz we're the size of one of your states. Let me just check the singles scores a sec.......... Donald, Poulter, McIlroy, Rose, Lawrie, Westwood ......... Not bad for a 2 bit little island against the might of the US? Just pulling your leg, mate, get what you're saying.

Regarding the cheering during an opening tee shot, no issue at all, thought it added to the occasion. I practice on a range that often has kids groups having 'lively' lessons, which I think is great. The ammount of huffing and grumping you get, invariably from the older generation, just adds to the atmosphere. You'd think my venerable practice buddies were warming up for the bleedin Open or something (and for the record it's 'The Open', not the British Open, 'THE Open' :) ).

I'm new to golf and think some of the stuffiness surounding the game holds it back in it's appeal to the younger generation. No, change that, I know it does. I was a pretty keen Rugby player since the age of 8 till 3 1/2 years ago a serious knee injury put my leg in a cast then brace for 6 months and out of contact sports for life so took up golf instead. The 5.5 handicap there is my initial handicap because our golf union won't contemplate giving a Cat 1 handicap to a new golfer so I'll have to whittle it away in matches - no issue I guess. Got to say Rugby was just ever so slightly less stuffy.

As a last point, if anyone thinks the UK reaction was OTT when they came back from the defecit they did and achieved what they did, and was disrespectful of the players waiting on the fairway in the last match, do me a favour - replay the last hole from where Stricker lines up his putt, because I just have. For him - absolute silence. For Kaymer - cat calling, whistling, shouting. Got to say it was the only time the US crowd let itself down just a tad.

the guys on the range...preparing for the British open i get completely...we have them preparing for the US open...cause they are both ...open. but i certainly know the type.

also agree on it turning off some younger generation

love the banter during match with your boys or mates.

[Johnhw2]

I believe there are two intangible or difficutl to measure factors at work in the RC results and trends. Those two factors are: 1) some players are better at match play than stroke play. I have seen this in my amateur career where the club champion might be beatable most tournys but not in the match play club championship. It is also true of the higher professional level players to some degree as well....I believe Ian P, Colin McG on Euro's side and Lanny Watkins as well as BIlly Casper on the american side are better at match then stroke play.... ie these four might some of the greatest RC players in the past 30 plus years on each side but would hardly be called the best overall Professional on each side of the pond.  2) Related to separate to a degree is some players are motivated by leaders and team mates to play at their best while others are more motivated by money or fear of failure.  I contend those motivated by an inspriing captain and being close to their team mates (other than on the pong table too) will play at the top of their game more often than those merely in good form.  How else can you explain Kaymer, Westwood to name two Euro's who played at a higher level than their form coming into this RC would predict.

The US is too focused on best players in stroke play and has too many leaders from the generation that does not inspire other players and manages them not lead them... DL3 and Corey Pavin are clear examples of this as well as Faldo. While Jose MO and Paul Azinger are two recent examples of leaders....who made their teams want to win for them.....not some less force like for country or for their own record and legacy....

We are missing the boat.... we need captains who will fit this mold.....guys like Azinger again or perhaps Wadkins or even Fred Couples, who has natureal leadership ability without being as intense or in your face and demanding as most on this list of inspiring captains are...

IMHO this recipe needs to be consider much more heavily in team selection and more or equally importanly in captain selection... no more picks based upon they are so and so's buddy unless they inspire that other player not that they are essy to play as partners with Tiger etc... Tiger should be a mentor on the team for the younger players not the guy needing a captains pick to prop him up... that said, his record with Stricker made his selection look better on paper than his results this time did... my top issue with picks this time are Furyk.....he inspries DL3 more than other players...which isnt not what is needed. DL3's formula of letting the players tell him what they wanted to do is not inspiring....and DL3 just plain isnt inspiring...nice guy Yes...well liked....probably yes.... but that doesnt make him a logical captain ....lets set up a succession where President's cup captains are being considered for RC Captain depending on results and how they inspire and lead the team.... lets keep a great captain like Azinger for two times if we do not have another proven inspiring capital available...

just my 2 cents

[Nosevi]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Golfer

the guys on the range...preparing for the British open i get completely...we have them preparing for the US open...cause they are both ...open. but i certainly know the type.

also agree on it turning off some younger generation

love the banter during match with your boys or mates.

THE Open, THE Open, not the British Open...... It's like when you guys say" London, England" or "Paris, France". If you want to name things after stuff we do or have, that's great. But it's 'THE Open' that's held over on our shores...

[Elvisliveson]

Originally Posted by Nosevi

THE Open, THE Open, not the British Open...... It's like when you guys say" London, England" or "Paris, France". If you want to name things after stuff we do or have, that's great. But it's 'THE Open' that's held over on our shores...

Is that why Colin Montgomerie, during Ryder Cup commentary this weekend, referred to it specifically as the British Open? Two more things,  1) THE Open as you call it is only still relevant becuase Arnold Palmer decided it was 50 years ago when it was on the verge of extinction as a major championship. 2) It's only called the Open because politically correct American journalists decided to go along with it.

[phan52]

Originally Posted by Monte the Bear

Can't understand the hate for Mickelson, or Love. Mickelson brought home the points Friday and Saturday, Love selected a team that brought home the points Friday and Saturday. One man stopped the rot for Europe on Saturday - that was Poulter. That was all the Euro's had.

On the Sunday, you have to step up or piss off. Just like Poulter did on Saturday, Rose did on Sunday. Even he could not believe the putt on 17 went in.

You lost it on the 18th. 6 games went to the 18th - you won one. That's where you lost it. That and Simpson, Watson and Snedeker never showed up. At least Furyk and Stricker got their games to the 18th!

Butch Harmon said that when Bubba lost his game to Luke, he should go and cheer lead because that's what he has been best at this week.

The only thing Davis Love III has to be ashamed about is the way he set the course up. Just because of that, I'm glad he failed, and hope that that will be a lesson to all future caprtains both American and US. Other than that, he's by far not the worst captain - as said previously, Hal Sutton and Mark James tie for that title.

And here's a fact - I've stood next to Mickelson and he's a big fella. No-one here would have the nuts to go up and get into his face on his decision making. He'd just laugh at you for being so insignificant.

Wrong. He's an arrogant prick to think that he can tell Love how to run his team, and Love is a wimp for letting him do it. And I would certaily tell him to his fat face, given the chance. What's he gonna do, hit me with his 64 degree wedge?

[jimdandy]

Originally Posted by Nosevi

THE Open, THE Open, not the British Open...... It's like when you guys say" London, England" or "Paris, France". If you want to name things after stuff we do or have, that's great. But it's 'THE Open' that's held over on our shores...

If you're from America, it's called THE BRITISH OPEN.

[MSchott]

Originally Posted by phan52

Wrong. He's an arrogant prick to think that he can tell Love how to run his team, and Love is a wimp for letting him do it. And I would certaily tell him to his fat face, given the chance. What's he gonna do, hit me with his 64 degree wedge?

Once again, focusing on what happened (especially when no one other than Phil and Davis know what they talked about) on Saturday when the day ended 10-6 in favor of the US is foolish. The story is what happened on Sunday when Europe made huge putts and the US did not. It's as simple as that, internet tough guy.

[jamo]

If you're from America, it's called THE BRITISH OPEN.

:doh: Back to the Ryder Cup, guys. We've rehashed the naming of the third major championship of the year enough.

[Nosevi]

Is that why Colin Montgomerie, during Ryder Cup commentary this weekend, referred to it specifically as the British Open? Two more things,  1) THE Open as you call it is only still relevant becuase Arnold Palmer decided it was 50 years ago when it was on the verge of extinction as a major championship. 2) It's only called the Open because politically correct American journalists decided to go along with it.

No, Monty called it that because he wanted you lot to know what he was on about. And only relevant because Arnold Palmer decided it was? Can you hear yourself! It's like the Baseball 'world series' or like when some burk sugested The Open should be scrapped as all the Majors should be on US soil! As if Europen golf is inferior in some way. That sort of comment doesn't sound as daft if you weren't just beaten....... Guys, sorry, I'm completely winding you up, not being serious at all. I'm a Brit but grew up in North Carolina (Cherry Point) and spent much of my life in Washington DC and Florida. Many of my best friends are from the US. Just kidding around. Will be good now and talk about unthinkable sporting jestures or DL3's malfuntioning crystal ball. :)

[Nosevi]

:doh: Back to the Ryder Cup, guys. We've rehashed the naming of the third major championship of the year enough.

Sorry had already posted. Just mucking about. Will be on my best behavior from now on.

[jimdandy]

I think Mickelson is arrogant, pompous, pretentious, and a sham! Never liked this phony baloney.

The fact that he spoke for Keegan, is disgusting. Keegan is 26, you KNOW he wanted to play Saturday afternoon.

In that conference, Phil kept saying "we" have exhausted all our energies, "we" can't play this afternoon. Keegan could have played 3 rounds that day!

I believe Mickelson strong-armed Davis in his decisions. And not just ones involving him.

Davis even alluded to it in the press conference, saying that he wanted to do certain things, but guys did or didn't want to play - referring to Phil.

That goofy wry smile... it's all BS. I don't buy it.

Just like the "thumbs up", and clapping. Its all phony BS!

And if you don't have a problem with the clapping, you don't get competition.

Its considered wrong for a 1st baseman, for example, to clap or high five a batter's monumental achievement (500th HR).

You won't see it done, and the few times someone has, they were called out by teammates.

You NEVER cheer a competitor at the Ryder Cup, especially 18th hole in an even match.