Jack Nicklaus Endorses Romney, Mitt calls Jack “Greatest athlete of the 20th century.”

[Mr. Desmond]

Originally Posted by Leftygolfer

These are facts? NY times, come 0n you can't be serious.  And its an opinion article.

Read again.

"Facts and Opinion"

Fact: When one compares Romney's positions, Romney changed his views (IMHO: for debate purposes to attract independents).

Opinion from looking at Facts: Romney misrepresented his views.

All we know is that Romney will cut the deficit by cutting Big Bird. Yeah, that'll work. Save Big Bird, Cancel Romney.   :-)

[Mr. Desmond]

Originally Posted by David in FL

The hardcore liberal Dems...... The Nancy Pelosi, Barney Frank, and Harry Reid crowd. Unfortunately for that group, there are more moderate Democrats out there and the President understood that there wasn't any way in Hell that what he really wanted would get out of the House. Hence the first bite.

And by the way, the whole "vast right wing conspiracy" ship sailed a loooong time ago. You're starting to sound a little shrill.

You have no facts or argument.

Just opinion based on ... nothing.

You sound like an empty suit.

Mitt, is that you?

[Mr. Desmond]

What I've always found disturbing about the GOP and its right wing supporters is that to join your club, you've got to eat and drink the pablum, and treat Obama like an alien -- only then will you be accepted.

I mean, it's no wonder it's tough to respect the GOP or its kind.

Personally, I am appalled that these two men are our choices for President. Neither one has shown a vision for the future or imagination in crafting solutions to solve our many issues. It's not rocket science - most of our problems can be resolved by common sense. The first common sense plan is get rid of the lobbyists and special interest groups - you can't do anything until their influence and money is decreased.

[David in FL]

You have no facts or argument. Just opinion based on ... nothing. You sound like an empty suit. Mitt, is that you?

If you can't debate without being insulting, I'll leave you and Subaru to play amongst yourselves. I understand that you're upset about the abysmal performance of your guy last night, but I expected a little more maturity than this.

[newtogolf]

IMO positive things that came out of Obama care - pre-existing condition coverage mandate, ability to cover dependant children up to age 26.

I see real value in the above item, but as a result, Romney was correct is pointing out that small businesses and employees are taking a $2500 hit per year on increased costs for less benefits.  Premiums went up, deductibles went up, co-pays went up and prescription costs went up.  The plan benefits some but it  burdens most of the middle class with increased costs for health care.

Let's also examine what Obama labels as rich ($250,000 or more income).  Most small business owners are S-Corps, which means in addition to the income they take as a payroll, they also must claim any profits that the business generates.  If after all adjustments the business generates $150K in profits and the owner takes $125K in salary, he's in Obama's higher tax bracket for the "rich".

Here's what Obama doesn't get, that $150K in profits isn't likely in the business owners personal savings account, it's in the corporate account to ensure that payroll, equipment acquisistions, etc can be made (working capital), so in effect the good business owner is going to be penalized for running a profitable business by having to pay higher taxes.

Those close to the $250K mark will play with the numbers and try to stay under it, those that are over it will have to find another way to cover the extra tax burden (reduce employee benefits, raise prices, layoff staff, reduce their own take home), either way it doesn't  promote the creation of jobs or promote small business in this country.

[newtogolf]

Bingo, that's it exactly.  I also agree with getting rid of lobbyists and special interest groups but we all know that is who puts money into their campaign funds and private pockets after their term is over.  Our government is corrupt, they serve themselves and those that fund their re-election campaigns.

Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond

What I've always found disturbing about the GOP and its right wing supporters is that to join your club, you've got to eat and drink the pablum, and treat Obama like an alien -- only then will you be accepted.

I mean, it's no wonder it's tough to respect the GOP or its kind.

Personally, I am appalled that these two men are our choices for President. Neither one has shown a vision for the future or imagination in crafting solutions to solve our many issues. It's not rocket science - most of our problems can be resolved by common sense. The first common sense plan is get rid of the lobbyists and special interest groups - you can't do anything until their influence and money is decreased.

[Mr. Desmond]

Originally Posted by David in FL

If you can't debate without being insulting, I'll leave you and Subaru to play amongst yourselves.

I understand that you're upset about the abysmal performance of your guy last night, but I expected a little more maturity than this.

That's funny. I'm too old to be attached to a result. I have faith in the American people.

Not upset at all.

You don't mind insulting, but can't take a little of your own medicine.

Lighten up.

Once again, read. Just because I don't demonize Obama doesn't mean I like all of his policies. I didn't care for Bush 43, but that was because of his policies. When he did a good job, I praised him. It just didn't happen often enough. But I wish every President well.

And this country is too cheerleaderish -- think! You pick a man and he's like your best friend. C'mon, that's not real. And If I criticize Mitt, I must love Obama! Seriously? That's lunacy. I am real. I like parts of Mitt and part of Obama - combine the two and you might have something. But we can't.

No one has all the answers - certainly not Obama, and certainly not Romney. If Romney was a pragmatic, middle of the road guy, I'd vote for him. But I can't tell who he is -- how can you? He changes by the minute. That's not authentic. That's what is so frustrating about Mitt - he has no core - how can you have a core when it changes by the minute?

Politics ... it ain't fun. Interesting, but not fun. Enjoy.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond

No one has all the answers - certainly not Obama, and certainly not Romney. If Romney was a pragmatic, middle of the road guy, I'd vote for him. But I can't tell who he is -- how can you? He changes by the minute. That's not authentic. That's what is so frustrating about Mitt - he has no core - how can you have a core when it changes by the minute?

Politics ... it ain't fun. Interesting, but not fun. Enjoy.

Exactly.  I was a big Obama supporter the first time around and I am going to be voting for him again.

Has he accomplished as much as I had hoped?  Nope.  Not even close, but he has principles.  I cannot say that about Mitt, because he seems to be willing to say or do whatever he thinks people want to hear at that moment.

He appears to have no core, and is certainly not authentic.  (Except when he thinks no one is listening, like in the secret 47% video)

[Mr. Desmond]

Originally Posted by David in FL

If you can't debate without being insulting

I mean, some guy from Georgia tries to virtually hang me in this thread a couple of days ago with all sorts of cheap, derogatory insults.

I didn't complain or take it personally. But I did notice that no one called him out -- I mean, it was some bad stuff... ah' almost came to tears...

I'm glad you were not the recipient.

Just let it go down your back. I should have said "acting like a". My apologies. I know politics are about values and people see "red" in these discussions. But these politicians are not your friends, they use all types of tactics to manipulate us - all of us. That's why facts are important, especially in politics. It helps cut through the bs.

So c'mon, base an opinion on fact once in a while. These conspiracy theories y'all bring up are mere right wing fantasies designed to manipulate you. And yes, the other side does something similar, but let's face it, the Dems don't have Karl Rove, so the GOP is much more manipulative and conniving. My opinion, of course. But using facts is one of the basics of a civil discussion. Of course, politics ain't civil, is it? Enjoy.

[David in FL]

That's funny. I'm too old to be attached to a result. I have faith in the American people. Not upset at all. You don't mind insulting, but can't take a little of your own medicine. Lighten up. Once again, read. Just because I don't demonize Obama doesn't mean I like all of his policies. I didn't care for Bush 43, but that was because of his policies. When he did a good job, I praised him. It just didn't happen often enough. But I wish every President well. And this country is too cheerleaderish -- think! You pick a man and he's like your best friend. C'mon, that's not real. And If I criticize Mitt, I must love Obama! Seriously? That's lunacy. I am real. I like parts of Mitt and part of Obama - combine the two and you might have something. But we can't. No one has all the answers - certainly not Obama, and certainly not Romney. If Romney was a pragmatic, middle of the road guy, I'd vote for him. But I can't tell who he is -- how can you? He changes by the minute. That's not authentic. That's what is so frustrating about Mitt - he has no core - how can you have a core when it changes by the minute? Politics ... it ain't fun. Interesting, but not fun. Enjoy.

Pls show me where I've insulted anyone.... I don't particularly care for Mitt, but I will vote for anyone to get Obama and his Socialist agenda out of office. I'm an old fashioned guy. I believe in the things that made this country great. Individualism, freedom, personal responsibility, and that old thing that we used to call the American Dream. If the current administration has their way, all of those will cease to exist as we descend further into a socialist state that abhors the individual in favor of the many. Further into Statism, where the ultimate measure of success is found in government service. Where successful, entrepreneurial, individuals aren't celebrated for the example they set and the opportunities they provide for others, but are denigrated as self-serving with no concern for others except as labor with which to further enrich themselves. Mr Obama promised to fundamentally change this country. Too few believed him. I for one, do.....his record proves it.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by David in FL

I don't particularly care for Mitt, but I will vote for anyone to get Obama and his Socialist agenda out of office. I'm an old fashioned guy. I believe in the things that made this country great. Individualism, freedom, personal responsibility, and that old thing that we used to call the American Dream. If the current administration has their way, all of those will cease to exist as we descend further into a socialist state that abhors the individual in favor of the many. Further into Statism, where the ultimate measure of success is found in government service. Where successful, entrepreneurial, individuals aren't celebrated for the example they set and the opportunities they provide for others, but are denigrated as self-serving with no concern for others except as labor with which to further enrich themselves.

Because he thinks that we should get rid of the Bush tax cuts?  That all sounds just a tad extreme to me.  Like something I'd hear on Fox News.

[x129]

No that business profit is the owners personal savings account. He can choose to reinvest the money or he can choose to take a vacation to Aruba.  It gets a little messy at the end of year where the owner takes his profit, has to reinvest it to pay the bills but then can take that reinvestment back out tax free when outstanding invoices are payed.  If you don't tax s-corp profits, it would be a huge tax break.  Everyone would pay themselves a minimal salary and get their money out as dividends. Personally I would love to be penalized by paying higher taxes because of high profits. I would much rather pay 40 million  in taxes on 100 million in profits than 1 million in taxes on 10 million in profit. Thats the punishment I can live with

Is 275k in income rich? Not in my book. But it is definitely in the upper middle class of income when you are making over 5x the average income in the US. Besides if you make 275k, you are not going to pay any of Obama's taxes.  It would be an extraordinary individual with 275k and income who has less than 25k of deductions. Heck at 275k, you should have about 25k in retirement deductions to start with.

People keep suggesting that people will get fired because of the tax increases. For example, lets say the tax rates go from 25% to 50%. Bob is making 100k and brings in 200k. In the old world, he made me 75k in profit. In the new world he makes me 50k. What happens after I fire him? I get 0 dollars. Most people would rather make 50k than 0k.  Why hasn't the business person cut benefits already? After if he cut 10k today he would get 6500 to spend while in the future cutting 10k might only get him 6000? Because at a certain point when you cut compensation, you lose good employees and your profits drop.

And as far as playing games to stay under 250k, why? Whenever people say stuff like that I always get the feeling that they don't understand how graduated tax rates work. There are a couple of exception in the low income ranges but in general you always end up with more cash in your pocket by earning more money.

Regulation is a much bigger burden in my experience than taxes. But almost all of the regulations that ruin my life are state and local level ones not federal.  I am sure that depends a lot on your business.

Quote:

Originally Posted by newtogolf

IMO positive things that came out of Obama care - pre-existing condition coverage mandate, ability to cover dependant children up to age 26.

I see real value in the above item, but as a result, Romney was correct is pointing out that small businesses and employees are taking a $2500 hit per year on increased costs for less benefits.  Premiums went up, deductibles went up, co-pays went up and prescription costs went up.  The plan benefits some but it  burdens most of the middle class with increased costs for health care.

Let's also examine what Obama labels as rich ($250,000 or more income).  Most small business owners are S-Corps, which means in addition to the income they take as a payroll, they also must claim any profits that the business generates.  If after all adjustments the business generates $150K in profits and the owner takes $125K in salary, he's in Obama's higher tax bracket for the "rich".

Here's what Obama doesn't get, that $150K in profits isn't likely in the business owners personal savings account, it's in the corporate account to ensure that payroll, equipment acquisistions, etc can be made (working capital), so in effect the good business owner is going to be penalized for running a profitable business by having to pay higher taxes.

Those close to the $250K mark will play with the numbers and try to stay under it, those that are over it will have to find another way to cover the extra tax burden (reduce employee benefits, raise prices, layoff staff, reduce their own take home), either way it doesn't  promote the creation of jobs or promote small business in this country.

[Mr. Desmond]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

Whatt Obama doesn't get, that $150K in profits isn't likely in the business owners personal savings account, it's in the corporate account to ensure that payroll, equipment acquisistions, etc can be made (working capital), so in effect the good business owner is going to be penalized for running a profitable business by having to pay higher taxes.

Those close to the $250K mark will play with the numbers and try to stay under it, those that are over it will have to find another way to cover the extra tax burden (reduce employee benefits, raise prices, layoff staff, reduce their own take home), either way it doesn't  promote the creation of jobs or promote small business in this country.

Obama gets it - he is asking for about 4% more  - what's that on $150K? $6k

Such a severe penalty... C'mon, who are we kidding?

Hi - I've worked with and heard cocktail conversation regarding small business owners for over 30 years. Maybe Texans are more liberal in their deductions, but they deduct everything, and I mean everything in their business or "consulting" companies. I knew about one guy, a small business owner, who had a "farm" and wanted to immediately deduct a pool, fence, etc. So I don't cry over the small business owners, and I haven't heard them cry much... they just want a better economy so people will buy their product/service. A few taxes never prevented them from hiring someone when they needed them.

[Elvisliveson]

Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond

Obama gets it - he is asking for about 4% more  - what's that on $150K? $6k

Such a severe penalty... C'mon, who are we kidding?

Hi - I've worked with and heard cocktail conversation regarding small business owners for over 30 years. Maybe Texans are more liberal in their deductions, but they deduct everything, and I mean everything in their business or "consulting" companies. I knew about one guy, a small business owner, who had a "farm" and wanted to immediately deduct a pool, fence, etc. So I don't cry over the small business owners, and I haven't heard them cry much... they just want a better economy so people will buy their product/service. A few taxes never prevented them from hiring someone when they needed them.

I thought you said you were a CPA? Have you actually signed a tax return for a small business that "deducted everything"? Didn't think so. If you did, then you're a crook and your actions are reportable to your state board of accountancy.. At my firm, many of our small business clients require audits or reviews from  which the tax returns are then prepared from and therefore thei financial information provided on them is pretty much beyond reproach.

The only small businesses that really get away with anything are cash businesses and raising the tax rates therefore wouldn't have any affect on them. The problem is the government is so stupid they have no idea how to catch these people, so it's a lot easier just to raise rates for everybody else who plays by the rules for the most part. This idea that "everyone cheats" is simplistic justification for soaking people.

[Mr. Desmond]

Originally Posted by Elvisliveson

I thought you said you were a CPA? Have you actually signed a tax return for a small business that "deducted everything"? Didn't think so. If you did, then you're a crook and your actions are reportable to your state board of accountancy.. At my firm, many of our small business clients require audits or reviews from  which the tax returns are then prepared from and therefore thei financial information provided on them is pretty much beyond reproach.

The only small businesses that really get away with anything are cash businesses and raising the tax rates therefore wouldn't have any affect on them. The problem is the government is so stupid they have no idea how to catch these people, so it's a lot easier just to raise rates for everybody else who plays by the rules for the most part. This idea that "everyone cheats" is simplistic justification for soaking people.

It must be nice being you - .  I saw a lot in 15 years as a CPA. Working in an office, you see other tax managers with problem clients. You hear their pain. I refused to do things people asked me to do. It's not worth it and I tell them the consequences.

I was once a CPA, now an attorney with two law degrees, one in tax. I rarely prepare a return now.I deal with everyday corporate issues and planning. I have seen, overheard conversations, talked with business owners and heard their accountants talk. I observe. It's still the same 15 years later. People ride the deduction line. I'm glad you're not a crook. Your actions would be reportable, ya' know if you were.

The point is - I don't cry for small business owners regarding taxes. I've seen higher rates not affect them. And behind the scenes, on an everyday basis, small business, whether it's a service like a CPA or in construction - well, it ain't pretty.

[Strike One]

Originally Posted by David in FL

I don't particularly care for Mitt, but I will vote for anyone to get Obama and his Socialist agenda out of office. I'm an old fashioned guy. I believe in the things that made this country great. Individualism, freedom, personal responsibility, and that old thing that we used to call the American Dream. If the current administration has their way, all of those will cease to exist as we descend further into a socialist state that abhors the individual in favor of the many. Further into Statism, where the ultimate measure of success is found in government service. Where successful, entrepreneurial, individuals aren't celebrated for the example they set and the opportunities they provide for others, but are denigrated as self-serving with no concern for others except as labor with which to further enrich themselves.

Mr Obama promised to fundamentally change this country. Too few believed him. I for one, do.....his record proves it.

I'm not voting for either one of these clowns, because nothing will change either way. The window dressing might be a bit different if Romney gets in, but they're both bought and paid for by the same people and will do their master's bidding.

Your kidding yourself if you think the president has any real ability to do what he wants. The last one who tried payed for it in Dealey Plaza.

The American Dream only exists in the history books. It's a fantasy that prevents people from seeing reality. We sit back and dream of a better tomorrow while the government steals our money and our freedoms right in front of our noses.

[David in FL]

The American Dream only exists in the history books. It's a fantasy that prevents people from seeing reality. We sit back and dream of a better tomorrow while the government steals our money and our freedoms right in front of our noses.

Sounds like you should be voting for the candidate that believes in smaller government, lower taxes, and greater personal freedoms. That would be Mr Romney.

[Strike One]

Originally Posted by David in FL

Sounds like you should be voting for the candidate that believes in smaller government, lower taxes, and greater personal freedoms.

That would be Mr Romney.

Both Bushs' said the same thing and lied through their teeth. Why should Romney be any different? The Republican party supposedly stands for smaller government, lower taxes, and greater personal freedoms, but they don't enact them. More freedoms? A republican signed into law the "Patriot act" which is anything but patriotic, and seeks to deprive us of our constitutional rights and freedoms. That's just one example of many hypocrisies.

I believe wholeheartedly in most of the Republican platform. Unfortunately, Republican politicians seem to have a short memory after getting elected. Democrats are even worse, as Obama has demonstrated during his round at the White House.