Score to post after losing hole in match play

[Rulesman]

Originally Posted by Wansteadimp

Since there is now virtually no difference between the rules of golf between the USGA & R&A; the difference in handicap systems is mind boggling.

The is absolutely no difference in the Rules except for the odd spelling.

The USGA, R&A;, CONGU, EGA, South Africa, Australia and Argentina are working long term on a 'commonish' system

However, CONGU (including England) are moving to scratch/bogey rating and slope over the next 10 years. The slope equation problems found by EG and the EGA will hopefully be resolved by then.

But the fundamental difference between 'all' rounds and 'competition strokeplay only' scores seems pretty daunting.

[Wansteadimp]

Originally Posted by Rulesman

The is absolutely no difference in the Rules except for the odd spelling.

The USGA, R&A;, CONGU, EGA, South Africa, Australia and Argentina are working long term on a 'commonish' system

However, CONGU (including England) are moving to scratch/bogey rating and slope over the next 10 years. The slope equation problems found by EG and the EGA will hopefully be resolved by then.

But the fundamental difference between 'all' rounds and 'competition strokeplay only' scores seems pretty daunting.

Interesting, given the age of most golf club members in the UK and the inability to correctly score stableford, a new more complicated handicapping system  could get very amusing.

[turtleback]

Thanks to all who responded.  The answers were about what I expected and I did score the hole as an 8 but posted the round with a 7 due to ESC.

I also emailed the SCGA and they gave the same answer.

[luu5]

Originally Posted by Wansteadimp

Interesting, given the age of most golf club members in the UK and the inability to correctly score stableford, a new more complicated handicapping system  could get very amusing.

Actually EGA uses stableford, so I think it is no more complicated (unless you add controversial CBA), just different. If that is the direction UK is going.

[Wansteadimp]

Originally Posted by luu5

Actually EGA uses stableford, so I think it is no more complicated (unless you add controversial CBA), just different. If that is the direction UK is going.

Yes it does use stableford scoring, its the thought of people getting their head round slope & course ratings etc that causes the amusement.

Also, the changes based on each round. At the moment a bad round gets you .1 back no matter what you shoot or your starting handicap, presumably with a rolling average the change will be no where near as straightforward to calculate.

[Rulesman]

Originally Posted by Wansteadimp

Yes it does use stableford scoring, its the thought of people getting their head round slope & course ratings etc that causes the amusement.

Also, the changes based on each round. At the moment a bad round gets you .1 back no matter what you shoot or your starting handicap, presumably with a rolling average the change will be no where near as straightforward to calculate.

No one has to anything complicated. The only score that anyone enters anywhere is the gross score for the hole; for medal or stableford. Everything else is done by the computer system. There are only about 10 clubs out of 2000 in England that don't use computer systems.

I think you do players a disservice. Virtually all social golf is played using stableford scoring so it is just second nature to most club players. The exceptions are new members coming from pay and play courses.

If/when slope is built into the GB & Ireland formula it will be in the software (as in the EGA version of CONGU). No one need worry about it.

The USGA is significantly under computerised. eg individuals having to calculate ESC or manually convert their handicap index to a playing handicap when playing another course.

A new system will have everything built into the software.

The vibes are that it will not be exactly the same everywhere. There will be national/regional variations.

[turtleback]

Originally Posted by Rulesman

No one has to anything complicated. The only score that anyone enters anywhere is the gross score for the hole; for medal or stableford. Everything else is done by the computer system. There are only about 10 clubs out of 2000 in England that don't use computer systems.

I think you do players a disservice. Virtually all social golf is played using stableford scoring so it is just second nature to most club players. The exceptions are new members coming from pay and play courses.

If/when slope is built into the GB & Ireland formula it will be in the software (as in the EGA version of CONGU). No one need worry about it.

The USGA is significantly under computerised. eg individuals having to calculate ESC or manually convert their handicap index to a playing handicap when playing another course.

A new system will have everything built into the software.

The vibes are that it will not be exactly the same everywhere. There will be national/regional variations.

But to build things like ESC into the software you will have to require players to enter hole by hole scores, whereas now we just enter the total score (with manual adjustments for esc).

As far as course handicaps go, there is a GHIN app available that lets you post your scores, check your current index, check the index of your partners/opponents, and computes course handicap for you.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by Rulesman

The USGA is significantly under computerised. eg individuals having to calculate ESC or manually convert their handicap index to a playing handicap when playing another course.

Anyone who makes the effort to maintain an official handicap is going to be cognizant of ESC.  At least, his handicap management agency will have provided him with that information, and it's not particularly complicated.  It's pretty simple: If ones index is from 10 to 19, you can only return a maximum score on any hole of 7.  Any hole where more strokes were taken must be adjusted to 7 and the total round score adjusted to reflect the change before entering it in the system.  There are only 5 levels, so keeping track of where you stand isn't quite rocket science.

A player's index is his index, no matter what course he plays.  His index remains the same from one course to another, but his course handicap changes depending on the rating and slope of the course.   His course handicap is usually available either by using the handicap computer at the guest course, or by reading it from a chart available there.  I've never had any problem finding my course handicap at a new course.  When entering a score from any course you also enter the slope and rating, or select the course and tees played from a list in the handicap software, and the computer does the calculations.

As a rule, using ones handicap only seems complicated to someone on the outside looking in.  Once you start to play in handicap competitions and use it regularly, It's really quite simple.

[Rulesman]

I used the term 'playing handicap' to indicate it the one the player uses when he actually plays the round.

I agree that the mechanics are quite simple.

[turtleback]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

Anyone who makes the effort to maintain an official handicap is going to be cognizant of ESC.  At least, his handicap management agency will have provided him with that information, and it's not particularly complicated.  It's pretty simple: If ones index is from 10 to 19, you can only return a maximum score on any hole of 7.  Any hole where more strokes were taken must be adjusted to 7 and the total round score adjusted to reflect the change before entering it in the system.  There are only 5 levels, so keeping track of where you stand isn't quite rocket science.

A player's index is his index, no matter what course he plays.  His index remains the same from one course to another, but his course handicap changes depending on the rating and slope of the course.   His course handicap is usually available either by using the handicap computer at the guest course, or by reading it from a chart available there.  I've never had any problem finding my course handicap at a new course.  When entering a score from any course you also enter the slope and rating, or select the course and tees played from a list in the handicap software, and the computer does the calculations.

As a rule, using ones handicap only seems complicated to someone on the outside looking in.  Once you start to play in handicap competitions and use it regularly, It's really quite simple.

I think you inadvertently misstated this.  As I know you know, ESC is based on course handicap, not index.

[Fourputt]

Yeah, I don't really think about it much since my index has never been lower than 10 or higher than 14 since they made that change (my limit has always been 7 no matter what course I was playing), I never really paid that much attention to it.  When I first started carrying a handicap, it was so many double bogies depending on where your handicap fell.  When they made the change it was 7 at my home course, and on every other course I've ever played.  I was never close enough to the limit to have it change, so I didn't really notice whether it was index or course handicap

[Wansteadimp]

Originally Posted by Rulesman

I think you do players a disservice. Virtually all social golf is played using stableford scoring so it is just second nature to most club players.

If/when slope is built into the GB & Ireland formula it will be in the software (as in the EGA version of CONGU). No one need worry about it.

I'll need to worry - I don't need reading glasses and can operate a computer - do this for me I haven't got my glasses.

Quote:

Originally Posted by turtleback

But to build things like ESC into the software you will have to require players to enter hole by hole scores, whereas now we just enter the total score (with manual adjustments for esc).

What? You're not entering scores on a hole by hole basis now?

Originally Posted by Fourputt

At least, his handicap management agency

I'll need one of these now - does this mean Bob in the club office?

I'm not convinced this is a step in the correct direction!

[turtleback]

Originally Posted by Wansteadimp

What? You're not entering scores on a hole by hole basis now?

Nope.  There is no provision for it on the most common system, GHIN.  Maybe it would be good if we did, but it would take a lot longer to post than it does now if we did.  But we don't.

[Rulesman]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

It's pretty simple: If ones index is from 10 to 19, you can only return a maximum score on any hole of 7.  Any hole where more strokes were taken must be adjusted to 7 and the total round score adjusted to reflect the change before entering it in the system.  There are only 5 levels, so keeping track of where you stand isn't quite rocket science.

.

I believe it is different in Canada

[Wansteadimp]

Originally Posted by turtleback

Nope.  There is no provision for it on the most common system, GHIN.  Maybe it would be good if we did, but it would take a lot longer to post than it does now if we did.  But we don't.

Doesn't take that much more time - a minute tops, maybe a couple of minutes if you're not used to using a computer. Having said that the new screen fooled me - no longer touch screen, it is important to enter the scores prior to the consuption of guinness!

This is the sort of display we get, tracking movements, ability to go in and look at how you have played different holes, only works really for the club you're a member of but throws up some pretty interesting stats. Personally I think the handicap sec . is a bit over zealous clearing data, I'd like to see a full year left on there.

http://www.masterscoreboard.co.uk/results/PlayerHistory.php?&CWID;=2719&Player;=284

[ghalfaire]

Originally Posted by Wansteadimp

I just don't comprehend the concept of using match play rounds for handicapping. Your whole strategy is different to a stroke play round, you don't finish a lot of holes - gimmes or the hole is won before it gets to putting. Weird, just weird.

I concur.  You take shots in match that you wouldn't in stroke (anyone say metal anymore?) play.  However I believe you're supposed to enter the score if you keep a GHIN handicap.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by ghalfaire

I concur.  You take shots in match that you wouldn't in stroke (anyone say metal anymore?) play.  However I believe you're supposed to enter the score if you keep a GHIN handicap.

Nobody ever did.  They used to say medal though. (Just messing with you)

I've never played a true match against somebody, but I can see how I would certainly try some shots that I may not try in a stroke play competition, however, most of my handicap rounds (basically all of them so far) are casual rounds.  I am two weeks away from playing in my first individual stroke play tournament and the more I think about it, the more I realize that I try shots in my casual rounds that I won't try in the competition either.

I want to get better at everything, so I'm using driver on holes that require it, but if I'm playing for competition, I am going to make myself OK with hitting 4I-7I into some of the par 4's just to keep the ball in play.  Right now, while my long clubs are still apt to go sideways, I'm going to score better playing safer, but I'm not going to get better with those long clubs by playing safer.

So I'm guessing that my casual round scores and match play scores (if I played any) would be pretty similar to each other.

[OKHC]

Some of you may not think it makes sense to post match play scores;

you might change your mind if your opponent 'magically' plays a lot better than his handicap.

If we all posted all of our scores as req'd by the Handicap System Manual, then matches would generally be competitive.

Also; replying to a different post: the Canadian handicapping system is now identical to the USGA's, except that Canadians have handicap "factors" not indexes.