Anchored Putters Rules Change (Effective January 1, 2016)

[newtogolf]

That's a great response to those that are pushing for two sets of rules.

Originally Posted by Rulesman

Another view.

http://www.titleist.com/teamtitleist/b/tourblog/archive/2013/01/21/the-case-for-unification-a-perspective-from-wally-uihlein-ceo-acushnet-company.aspx

[CanuckAaron]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

Although I'd be in favor of a rollback, I can see his point in this regard.  A lot of R&D; has gone into designing a ball which maximizes distance without sacrificing performance (and the Penta is one of the top performing balls you can buy).To be told now that they have to toss all of that work in the trash and design for underperformance instead would be a slap in the face.  It's a lot different from the long putter which took took no real effort to develop, and isn't that hard to discontinue.

Manufacturers in other industries have to do exactly that, not sure why TM or any golf manufacturer is immune.

[newtogolf]

There's a difference because other sports do have different rules for pro's and non-pro's.  Aluminum bats are not allowed in MLB, but they are in college and high school.  Triple wall bats are not allowed in college, high school and some softball leagues but they are allowed in some softball leagues.

TM may decide to produce non-conforming equipment for those that just want to enjoy the game and aren't concerned about posting a score for handicap or playing in a tournament.  People not playing for handicap can use non-conforming equipment and carry as many clubs as they like.  The deciding factor for TM and others will be how big the market is for people that will knowingly game nonconforming equipment.

Originally Posted by CanuckAaron

Manufacturers in other industries have to do exactly that, not sure why TM or any golf manufacturer is immune.

[turtleback]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

TM may decide to produce non-conforming equipment for those that just want to enjoy the game and aren't concerned about posting a score for handicap or playing in a tournament.  People not playing for handicap can use non-conforming equipment and carry as many clubs as they like.  The deciding factor for TM and others will be how big the market is for people that will knowingly game nonconforming equipment.

I'm guessing that it will be a vanishingly small percentage of golfers.  And will quickly disappear.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by turtleback

Quote:

Originally Posted by newtogolf

TM may decide to produce non-conforming equipment for those that just want to enjoy the game and aren't concerned about posting a score for handicap or playing in a tournament.  People not playing for handicap can use non-conforming equipment and carry as many clubs as they like.  The deciding factor for TM and others will be how big the market is for people that will knowingly game nonconforming equipment.

I'm guessing that it will be a vanishingly small percentage of golfers.  And will quickly disappear.

Just look at how relatively few such items there are right now.  You have to go out looking to find a nonconforming "hot" ball or springy driver.  Such things aren't handled by mainstream outlets because of the damage it would do to their reputations.  I'm not talking about counterfeit gear, but stuff that is properly advertised as "hot" or illegal.

I know that I'm not changing my approach to the game, regardless of what the PGA may decide. I will simply lose all respect for them for going along with such a farce.

[Sticky]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

That's a great response to those that are pushing for two sets of rules.

Do the PGA Tour and the Euro-tour have the same rules for ball size?

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by Sticky

Quote:

Originally Posted by newtogolf

That's a great response to those that are pushing for two sets of rules.

Do the PGA Tour and the Euro-tour have the same rules for ball size?

Yes

[turtleback]

Originally Posted by Sticky

Do the PGA Tour and the Euro-tour have the same rules for ball size?

To expand on Fourputt's answer, there was a time when the British ball was the same 1.68 ounces as the American ball but it had a 1.62 diameter compared to the 1.68 diameter of the American ball.  Since the diameter rule was expressed in both cases as "no smaller than . . ." the American ball was legal in the British Open but the British ball was not legal in America.  Nevertheless when American players went to play the British Open they typically would play the British size ball because they got more distance and it played better in the wind, even though they were more familiar with their own ball and could play it.  When the R&A; decided to conform to the USGA rule it was one of the last differences to be closed.

I had a few of the British size balls and played them for fun back when I was a teenager.

[Rulesman]

The PGA made the bigger ball compulsory for main tournaments in 1964, and from 1968 announced that it was to experiment with the bigger ball of 1.68" in its tournaments, and soon after made it mandatory. In 1974, the R&A; made the bigger ball compulsory for the Open Championship.
Under the R&A;, both balls were legal until the smaller ball was finally outlawed by the R&A; in 1990.

[Wansteadimp]

Originally Posted by Sticky

Do the PGA Tour and the Euro-tour have the same rules for ball size?

Did you not see the Ryder Cup??? The Euros have much bigger balls! Sorry couldn't resist

[Stretch]

Garrigus interview at the Wasted Management. Last bit is interesting if it foreshadows the way Tour sentiment may be going.

Quote:

Q.  You had some success with a really short putter, did the long.  What are your thoughts on this potential ban of anchoring?

ROBERT GARRIGUS:  My thoughts are that let us play golf and leave us alone pretty much.  I talked to Mike Davis, I talked to Tim Finchem, I just asked one simple question:  I asked him out of the 15 board members that vote on our game, our professional game, how many of them have ever struck a shot in competition?  And that was zero, and that's all I needed to hear.

It's unfortunate they're trying to ban it and everybody is calling Keegan and those guys cheaters.  They're not cheating.  I told them to go back to the tape in Canada when I couldn't make a thing on the last day with a long putter.  Couldn't sniff the hole from three feet.  And they think it's cheating?  I mean, I giggled at that.  I told him to his face, just go back to the tape and check it out.  I didn't make anything.  You think it's going to be illegal?  You still have nerves.

His point was saying, hey, you guys can adapt, you're professionals, but he doesn't have to make a putt for a million dollars, and that's the unfortunate thing.  They're amateurs policing a professional game.  It's just unfortunate.  But we'll see what happens because you've got a lot of TOUR players, obviously Tim Clark and Carl Pettersson‑‑ Tim Clark can't even grip the club the right way.  He has to get changed like this because his hands don't fold out.  So he's probably going to do something legally if it comes to that, but I don't think it's going to come to that.

It's unfortunate that nerves play a big part in the game and being able to control them, and I don't think a long putter‑‑ who cares if Ernie won with a long putter or Keegan.  They played great golf, they hit great shots and made great putts, and it doesn't matter what they were using.  It's not as easy as it looks.

I've been saying that forever.  I used a mini‑me putter for 28 inches, I used a 50‑inch putter in my chest, and I think the long putter helped me with the short one.  I plead the case for the long putters because when we're playing and we miss a two‑footer on the last hole with whatever putter we're using, if we're in the top 10 or top 5, that costs hundreds of thousands of dollars, and it's not our money, but it should be if we make the putt.

No, I don't think it's probably going to go through.  I think there are some things that are going to happen that people will be surprised about.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Stretch

Garrigus interview at the Wasted Management. Last bit is interesting if it foreshadows the way Tour sentiment may be going.

Goodness I hope the PGA Tour doesn't split off and start making up their own rules or whatnot.

[Fourputt]

All I can say is, if Tim Clark can't hold a putter, how come he can hold the other clubs well enough to play professional golf?  I swing the driver and stroke the putter with exactly the same grip.  I realize that this isn't normally recommended, but it works quite well for me, and I can't see why he couldn't do the same.  Just one of those things floating around in my head on a rainy Sunday morning here in paradise (our rain gauge shows 3.8" in the last 36 hours).

[Stretch]

Originally Posted by iacas

Goodness I hope the PGA Tour doesn't split off and start making up their own rules or whatnot.

I think it is almost inevitable that the professional players and manufacturers/marketers will eventually ally against the amateur administrators. Divergent interests.

[newtogolf]

I agree, Garrigus said it himself in the interview.  The pro's don't want people who never had to putt for a $1M to decide the rules of their game.  I guess if I was a pro (especially one that used an anchored putting stroke) I'd feel the same way.

The USGA is in a tough spot, they want to remain aligned with the R&A;, but the PGA and PGA Tour seem opposed to the banning.  If the PGA and PGA Tour decide to ignore the ban, does that mean the end of the USGA or does the USGA and R&A; merge into an amateur rules committee that governs non-professional tournaments internationally, such as the Olympics?

Originally Posted by Stretch

I think it is almost inevitable that the professional players and manufacturers/marketers will eventually ally against the amateur administrators. Divergent interests.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

The USGA is in a tough spot, they want to remain aligned with the R&A;, but the PGA and PGA Tour seem opposed to the banning.  If the PGA and PGA Tour decide to ignore the ban, does that mean the end of the USGA or does the USGA and R&A; merge into an amateur rules committee that governs non-professional tournaments internationally, such as the Olympics?

I don't know. Is the PGA Tour willing to let two majors be contested under different rules? And the Masters may very well follow suit given their USGA membership.

I agree with and like the proposed rules change, so I'm not going to favor the PGA Tour or the players that pushed for it if they buck the USGA.

[Rulesman]

The Opens are owned by the R&A; and USGA. The PGA Tour is not the only tour in the world. The European Tour will go with the R&A; and probably the Asian also. All the feeder tours will stick with the RBs as they are fed by the amateurs who won't have any experience of anchoring.

[dave67az]

Originally Posted by Stretch

Garrigus interview at the Wasted Management. Last bit is interesting if it foreshadows the way Tour sentiment may be going.

Q.  You had some success with a really short putter, did the long.  What are your thoughts on this potential ban of anchoring?

ROBERT GARRIGUS:  My thoughts are that let us play golf and leave us alone pretty much.  I talked to Mike Davis, I talked to Tim Finchem, I just asked one simple question:  I asked him out of the 15 board members that vote on our game, our professional game, how many of them have ever struck a shot in competition?  And that was zero, and that's all I needed to hear.

It's unfortunate they're trying to ban it and everybody is calling Keegan and those guys cheaters.  They're not cheating.  I told them to go back to the tape in Canada when I couldn't make a thing on the last day with a long putter.  Couldn't sniff the hole from three feet.  And they think it's cheating?  I mean, I giggled at that.  I told him to his face, just go back to the tape and check it out.  I didn't make anything.  You think it's going to be illegal?  You still have nerves.

His point was saying, hey, you guys can adapt, you're professionals, but he doesn't have to make a putt for a million dollars, and that's the unfortunate thing.  They're amateurs policing a professional game.  It's just unfortunate.  But we'll see what happens because you've got a lot of TOUR players, obviously Tim Clark and Carl Pettersson‑‑ Tim Clark can't even grip the club the right way.  He has to get changed like this because his hands don't fold out.  So he's probably going to do something legally if it comes to that, but I don't think it's going to come to that.

It's unfortunate that nerves play a big part in the game and being able to control them, and I don't think a long putter‑‑ who cares if Ernie won with a long putter or Keegan.  They played great golf, they hit great shots and made great putts, and it doesn't matter what they were using.  It's not as easy as it looks.

I've been saying that forever.  I used a mini‑me putter for 28 inches, I used a 50‑inch putter in my chest, and I think the long putter helped me with the short one.  I plead the case for the long putters because when we're playing and we miss a two‑footer on the last hole with whatever putter we're using, if we're in the top 10 or top 5, that costs hundreds of thousands of dollars, and it's not our money, but it should be if we make the putt.

No, I don't think it's probably going to go through.  I think there are some things that are going to happen that people will be surprised about.

Wow.

I've tried to be nice and ignore the garbage but this is too much.  Just to address a few things...

1.  First he says that because he had a bad day with a long putter that it means they shouldn't be illegal because they obviously provide no advantage.  Really?  So if a baseball player on steroids strikes out it means that they're okay to use because they provide no advantage?  One of the dumber arguments I've heard.

2.  "They're amateurs policing a professional game."  No, dillweed, you're a professional playing a game that's enjoyed by WAY more amateurs than professionals and if you think the USGA should cater to the professionals just because you make your money at it then you don't understand why the USGA exists in the first place.

3.  If Tim Clark can swing every club in the bag without anchoring EXCEPT the putter, that's a little hard to believe don't you think?

4.  Yeah, it's unfortunate that nerves are a part of the game...for people who aren't mentally capable of controlling them.  It's also unfortunate that extreme muscle control is a part of the game...for people who don't have as much muscle control as others.  It's also unfortunate that physical strength is a part of the game...for people who aren't as strong.  They're ALL part of the game and putting the whole package together is what we ALL strive to do.  It's also why we respect the truly great golfers...because we KNOW how hard it is to put them all together.  To remove any of those requirements is to lessen the efforts and accomplishments of all the great golfers in our history.

Step down from your little professional, elitist perch and stop acting like the USGA has a responsibility to do whatever the pros want them to do.  How about you show a little respect for the traditions of golf.  It's a shame the USGA let it go this long before squashing it.  That's the ONLY logical argument, in my opinion.