Anchored Putters Rules Change (Effective January 1, 2016)

[Texian]

Originally Posted by turtleback

If we thought you were not making that up we would also have to think that you didn't know the difference between 2012 and 2016.  I'm going to cling to the conviction that you are a lot smarter than that, and that you are just being silly.

Your conviction is correct. I do consider myself smarter than the average Bear(Kat).

But let's say that something similar happened in 2016, and my playing partner, in a club championship match for instance, says, "Your forearm was touching your torso on that putting stroke. So I win the hole."

And I say, truthfully, "Well, I always hold my forearm away from my body on my putting stroke, so if it was touching, it wasn't intentional.'

It's almost impossible to prove "intent" in a court of law. Can you imagine the arguments and hard feelings this could cause on a golf course, when the "judge" is in the pro shop selling shirts or on the driving range giving a lesson?

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by Texian

My withholding what little support I have is also with the best intention, because economics is the only possible way for this movement to change course at this point. If enough individuals, and tournament sponsors, and equipment manufacturers, and all those others from which the USGA draws its funding, would oppose this in the strongest way possible, then it could be overturned.

But you and I both know there's no chance of any of that happening.  Know why?  Because they know that the USGA is doing this for the right reason .  Merit is on their side, so there is no motivation for a grand revolution against the decision.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Texian

Your conviction is correct. I do consider myself smarter than the average Bear(Kat).

But let's say that something similar happened in 2016, and my playing partner, in a club championship match for instance, says, "Your forearm was touching your torso on that putting stroke. So I win the hole."

And I say, truthfully, "Well, I always hold my forearm away from my body on my putting stroke, so if it was touching, it wasn't intentional.'

It's almost impossible to prove "intent" in a court of law. Can you imagine the arguments and hard feelings this could cause on a golf course, when the "judge" is in the pro shop selling shirts or on the driving range giving a lesson?

I'm engaging the Potter Stewart defense. I'll know it when I see it.

[Texian]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

What movement?  It was a simple rule change, higher profile than most, surely, but still just a rule change.

Maybe "process" would have been a better word. But in any language, it's a proposed change from something that was working fine as is to something that is in my view NOT "for the good of the game," although that is debatable.

[Texian]

Originally Posted by iacas

I'm engaging the Potter Stewart defense. I'll know it when I see it.

OK. So who wins the hole?

[Valleygolfer]

Originally Posted by Texian

Quote:

Originally Posted by iacas

I'm engaging the Potter Stewart defense. I'll know it when I see it.

OK. So who wins the hole?

show me a video of your forearm touching your torso during a putt that you make ....

[JetFan1983]

Originally Posted by Valleygolfer

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texian

Quote:

Originally Posted by iacas

I'm engaging the Potter Stewart defense. I'll know it when I see it.

OK. So who wins the hole?

show me a video of your forearm touching your torso during a putt that you make....

This guy might have a problem with it, but I can't think of anyone else.

[Texian]

Originally Posted by Valleygolfer

show me a video of your forearm touching your torso during a putt that you make....

Not sure what you're asking. I don't have a video, but what my opponent in my hypothetical "thought" he saw was something like photos two and three down in the USGA  "prohibited" illustration:

http://thesandtrap.com/t/62766/anchored-putters-rules-change-was-decision-coming-soon/144#post_787703

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by Texian

Not sure what you're asking. I don't have a video, but what my opponent in my hypothetical "thought" he saw was something like photos two and three down in the USGA  "prohibited" illustration:

http://thesandtrap.com/t/62766/anchored-putters-rules-change-was-decision-coming-soon/144#post_787703

This is silly.  As if these type of situations are new?  This will be a he said/she said type of deal, just like if your opponent were to claim that your club grazed the sand in a trap or you knocked a leaf off a tree in your backswing.

And they'll probably occur about as often too. (Like, almost never)

Especially after 3 years of everybody getting ready for the rule change.  Had they just enacted it immediately, maybe your paranoia might have a little merit, but with the 3 year grace period, it's going to be a non-issue.

[Valleygolfer]

Originally Posted by Texian

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valleygolfer

show me a video of your forearm touching your torso during a putt that you make....

Not sure what you're asking. I don't have a video, but what my opponent in my hypothetical "thought" he saw was something like photos two and three down in the USGA  "prohibited" illustration:

http://thesandtrap.com/t/62766/anchored-putters-rules-change-was-decision-coming-soon/144#post_787703

you did not state what putter you were using

[Texian]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

This is silly.  As if these type of situations are new?  This will be a he said/she said type of deal, just like if your opponent were to claim that your club grazed the sand in a trap or you knocked a leaf off a tree in your backswing.

And they'll probably occur about as often too. (Like, almost never)

Especially after 3 years of everybody getting ready for the rule change.  Had they just enacted it immediately, maybe your paranoia might have a little merit, but with the 3 year grace period, it's going to be a non-issue.

I hope you're right, but the examples are different. The sand moved. The leaf fell. But the golfer making the stroke either didn't feel contact because he was focused on the ball, or putting line, or whatever, or didn't "intend" to make contact, so he doesn't think a violation occurred. The 3 year grace period is not relevant. The stroke is legal one day, illegal the next.

[Texian]

Originally Posted by Valleygolfer

you did not state what putter you were using

43-inch Odyssey two ball.

[schigara]

Just my personal experience with a long putter.

About 2 years ago, I bought a used Odyssey White Hot 2-Ball Long putter. I saw it at a shop in Memphis that deals in just used clubs and tried it out on the little practice green. It was amazing! I was making 6 footers like it was a 3 footer. I told my buddy If I made 20 in a row from 6feet, I would buy it. Well, I made 23 in a row and took it home. I was in love with it until I tried to make long distance lag puts. It was horrible. I rarely 3 putt because I am pretty good controlling speed but If I was 30+ feet away, I couldn't control being 6 feet short or 6 feet long. After just 6 rounds, I cut the length down to my usual of 29in and it has been my favorite putter since then.

[Texian]

Originally Posted by schigara

Just my personal experience with a long putter.

About 2 years ago, I bought a used Odyssey White Hot 2-Ball Long putter. I saw it at a shop in Memphis that deals in just used clubs and tried it out on the little practice green. It was amazing! I was making 6 footers like it was a 3 footer. I told my buddy If I made 20 in a row from 6feet, I would buy it. Well, I made 23 in a row and took it home. I was in love with it until I tried to make long distance lag puts. It was horrible. I rarely 3 putt because I am pretty good controlling speed but If I was 30+ feet away, I couldn't control being 6 feet short or 6 feet long. After just 6 rounds, I cut the length down to my usual of 29in and it has been my favorite putter since then.

That shouldn't matter for you. You made 23 6-footers in a row.

[dave67az]

Originally Posted by iacas

You have never seen a yardage book like these?

Oh I've seen these, yes.  Matter of fact I always ask at the pro shop before I go out if they have one, and many courses I play do not.  I've even seen yardage markers to the center of the green on sprinkler heads on the courses I've played.  My point was that GPS can do something that these yardage books do not, and even the Stracka Line books I've seen, for that matter.

An example is below.  I've put a yellow star in the image to show where my tee shot went (I played my slice but hit it square...again).  Unfortunately, since I'm in the rough left of the fairway, I can guess and estimate that I'm somewhere around 150 from the center of the green (and honestly with MY game, that's about all I need to know).  But assuming I was a better golfer and could actually hit my irons consistently from the rough, knowing I'm "about 150 out" isn't going to give me much chance for a birdie if I can't get more precise than that.  My GPS app, on the other hand, could tell me within a yard or two where I'm at, which could make the difference between leaving a 10 foot putt or a 30 foot putt for birdie.  Right?  (I could be missing something, because I've never had a caddie and haven't had the luxury of playing courses with yardage markers so frequent that they help me much if I'm in the rough.)

[schigara]

Originally Posted by Texian

That shouldn't matter for you. You made 23 6-footers in a row.

Yeah, you would think right?  Only problem was those 6 footers on the practice green had no break.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by dave67az

But assuming I was a better golfer and could actually hit my irons consistently from the rough, knowing I'm "about 150 out" isn't going to give me much chance for a birdie if I can't get more precise than that.

The point remains that you could go to the sprinkler head marked 127 and pace back to your ball. A GPS or a laser allows you to do that process faster.

That's a straw man argument anyway, and I allowed it briefly, but as it's off topic we'll leave it at that.

[Valleygolfer]

Originally Posted by dave67az

Quote:

Originally Posted by iacas

You have never seen a yardage book like these?

Oh I've seen these, yes.  Matter of fact I always ask at the pro shop before I go out if they have one, and many courses I play do not.  I've even seen yardage markers to the center of the green on sprinkler heads on the courses I've played.  My point was that GPS can do something that these yardage books do not, and even the Stracka Line books I've seen, for that matter.

An example is below.  I've put a yellow star in the image to show where my tee shot went (I played my slice but hit it square...again).  Unfortunately, since I'm in the rough left of the fairway, I can guess and estimate that I'm somewhere around 150 from the center of the green (and honestly with MY game, that's about all I need to know).  But assuming I was a better golfer and could actually hit my irons consistently from the rough, knowing I'm "about 150 out" isn't going to give me much chance for a birdie if I can't get more precise than that.  My GPS app, on the other hand, could tell me within a yard or two where I'm at, which could make the difference between leaving a 10 foot putt or a 30 foot putt for birdie.  Right?  (I could be missing something, because I've never had a caddie and haven't had the luxury of playing courses with yardage markers so frequent that they help me much if I'm in the rough.)

You are splitting hairs. Yardage obtained from an external source. Now you may not have yardage from an opposing fairway, if you want to argue that. That would be something a gps could give you that a map wouldn't. You still have to make the shot. That is the key. Gps or yardage knowledge does not make the shot easier and hitting from the rough is never consistent.