To fluff or not to fluff?

[keb]

My course has been flooded every spring except this last year for the last 4 plus years.  Consequently, even the fairways are spotty. I will play winter rules when playing weekend golf.  On men's night or tournaments, no fluffy and I play strictly by the rules.  On the weekends I am really just playing against myself.

[saevel25]

Depends on the condition of the course. Especially the course i play league in. There are some areas that just look like ground under repair compared to the other areas. The course really has some drainage problems in some areas, so wet springs and harsh dry summers really take its tole, and with the amount of play the course gets, it gets pretty beat up. So if my ball is in a really bad area of the fairway i might at least give my self some grass.

[scottothegreat]

Not being a very good player myself I only improve my lie if I am in a divot in the fairway or something like that or on a root but never in serous competition   .

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by SouthernBuckeye

I have only been playing this great game for three years now, I did not start until I was fifty years old.  Only regret I have is that I did not start when I was young.  However there is one thing that bothers me about the players in my area, they will not play the ball as it lies.  I would say that 90 percent of the players that I have played with will improve their lie before hitting the ball, some will move it from under trees and bushes.  Some play so called winter rules year round.  Every time I question them about it I hear the same old excuse, "we are not pros" or "we don't play for money".  I don't care, cheating is cheating even if you are only cheating yourself.  What I think has drawn me to this game is the fact that golf is the hardest sport I have experienced in my life, I do not believe I will live long enough to master it.  It is supposed to be hard, it is supposed to be challenging, if you don't hit the ball out of deep rough, then you will never learn how to, same for trees, bushes, etc, etc.  I was just wondering if this is something unique to the area that I live in or is it commonplace everywhere, and if it is, why???

Originally Posted by CraiginKSA

Part of the fun of the game is hitting shots from bad lies. I never fix my lie because that's against the rules! I hit an unbelievable drive the other day on the #1 handicap hole. Got to my ball - it's in an unfilled divot. That's a hard shot. I had to just wedge it out of there and just keep moving.

Agree with both above comments.  I play my the Rules of Golf.  That doesn't mean that I play slowly (amazing whacker ), but I do play the game as it is meant to be played.   In winter I don't play preferred lies, even when my buddies are.  If that means that I lose a couple of bucks, no big deal, but if I play the ball down and win, it feels even better.  I'm firmly in the camp which believes that if you don't play those shots all of the time, then you won't know how to deal with it when you need to play those shots.

Nothing in the rules says that a player is entitled to a good lie, no matter how well he thinks he hit the previous shot.

[keb]

Golf is also meant to be fun.  If fluffying gives a weekend golfer more enjoyment from the game, go for it.   I don't agree that this somehow means you are not playing golf or those who "play by the rules" are somehow superior.  Each to his own unless you are playing tournament golf.

[GaijinGolfer]

Unless stated otherwise or the people Im playing with agree to winter rules, I play it as it lies.  The only exception may be when the course is rathar wet and the ball sinks into the fairway when it lands or ends up with big mud clump on it.  Then, I will lift, clean and place.

[shanksalot]

It always amazes me when I see people get uptight about some person bumping their ball on the course. So what, it is what they want to do and if that lets them enjoy their game fine. If they post that score so what it will only be to their detriment when playing in a tournament using their handicap.  Lots of players start out with a mulligan on the first tee. It amazes me that they feel they have to but it is their game not mine. Who are we to criticize what someone else does on the course. If they hold up your group you have the right to get upset but if they don't want to play a shot where the ball is sitting down in the thick rough so what. Does it change your game, does it make your enjoyment less? I have played this game for over five decades and I play by the rules as best as I can but  to my knowledge have never criticized someone for playing the way that let's them enjoy the game. Remember folks it is a game no life or death.

To me the challenge of this game is me against the golf course so I try to play following the rules of golf all the time, but that is my challenge and no one else has to play my way. I use to play at a course where one of the players there posted only his good scores and many of those scores were not accurately posted. When he got down to a single digit and played in tournaments he would often shoot in the high 80's/90's.  Well so what it is what he wanted, but the thing was he never understood why no one wanted him on their team in a 4 person tournament. I finally told him why no one wanted him on their team. He was embarrassed but soon changed how he posted.  He hurt no one but himself and nobody cared until they had to play with him in a tournament. People who play by the rules love to play head to head against guys who don't play by them. Just tell them putt out everything, no mulligans, and play the ball down.

[phillyk]

I play my own game.  If there's money on the line and my partners are fluffing the lie, fine I'll still try to beat them.  But fluffing is the extent of that, because even with fluffing, you may still not hit the ball correctly.  But if you're kicking the ball around or not finishing your putts, those are clear violations that cost strokes. Even in tournaments, where I see my partners fluffing, I'll ignore it knowing that it is wrong, but it is up to him/her to call it on themselves, not me.  And of course, I'll still play my own game and try to beat them none-the-less.

I believe in honor, and that's what golf is. I'll respect another's game, but in the hope they honor and respect the game as I do.

[caniac6]

We play that you can move the ball in your own fairway once the bermuda goes dormant. I usually play it down, but I might look for some help if I am hitting a fairway wood.

[SAGolfLuvr]

I am responding to SouthernBuckeye's post that started this thread.

1. I agree with you.

2. You've been playing for 3 years and it will take a while to find 3 or 4 more golfers who feel the same way you do. That can be your new regular foursome, BEWARE the slow golfers playing USGA rules and scoring in the 90's or higher. They will slow down the group and cause tension that you don't need when you play golf.

3. This is why they say the REAL SCORE of average recreational golfer is more than 100 because they don't play by USGA rules. They had rules officials follow many foursomes around and recorded their actual scores.

4. Don't play courses that regularly have such bad conditions that you are "forced" to continuously improve your lie (to keep from damaging your clubs). In South Texas, we have some courses with hardpan and rocks in the fairway so I avoid them when I am playing for score to record on GHIN. You will pay a little more, but you will have piece of mind and your clubs will last longer.

5. Please remember, the majority of recreational golfers will commit all sorts of rules infractions. Nobody can change these golfers for the very reasons they have given you. So you will either have to just tolerate it and let them know you don't respect their final scores, or you find some kindred spirits to play with. Good Luck.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by phillyk

I play my own game.  If there's money on the line and my partners are fluffing the lie, fine I'll still try to beat them.  But fluffing is the extent of that, because even with fluffing, you may still not hit the ball correctly.  But if you're kicking the ball around or not finishing your putts, those are clear violations that cost strokes. Even in tournaments, where I see my partners fluffing, I'll ignore it knowing that it is wrong, but it is up to him/her to call it on themselves, not me.  And of course, I'll still play my own game and try to beat them none-the-less.

I believe in honor, and that's what golf is. I'll respect another's game, but in the hope they honor and respect the game as I do.

The line that I put in bold you are wrong.  In a stroke competition, every competitor is charged with protecting the field, and ignoring a cheater doesn't only hurt you, it hurts all of the players in the field.  You have the right to ignore a penalty by your opponent in a match, because you are the only one being hurt by it, but in a stroke competition you become complicit in cheating if you ignore a known violation by a fellow competitor.

[cooke119]

Playing in a league, we play by the rules of course, however, one exception we make is in a bunker. If it hasn't been raked by someone before and our ball ends up in a deep footprint or hole then we'll call over our opponent and ask if they agree that we can rake the depression. If they agree (and they always do), we'll lift the ball, rake the sand, then place the ball back where it was. I know it sounds kind of anal but that's how we get around the lack of respect some of the playing public show when they play.

When just playing for fun we try to play by the rules, but after a few beers the rules kind of get bent a little, well maybe a lot. But we usually don't even keep score or don't take the score seriously. When I say I shoot in the high nineties, that is my league play, not my goofing around score (which is in the eighties LOL)

[Pablo68]

Originally Posted by slodsm

The only lies I improve are when they are on gravel or something right beside the cart path and I'm playing for fun. I'm not putting a huge ding in an expensive club over that so I'll bump it over a few feet and get after it. Other than that, play it where it lays.

Ditto.

I don't get free clubs and the ones I buy must last me. If that means rolling it off hardpan by not playing as it lies, okay.

I'm in favor of having a seperate set of rules for Amateurs since we play in different conditions and need to do something to speed up play.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by Pablo68

Quote:

Originally Posted by slodsm

The only lies I improve are when they are on gravel or something right beside the cart path and I'm playing for fun. I'm not putting a huge ding in an expensive club over that so I'll bump it over a few feet and get after it. Other than that, play it where it lays.

Ditto.

I don't get free clubs and the ones I buy must last me. If that means rolling it off hardpan by not playing as it lies, okay.

I'm in favor of having a seperate set of rules for Amateurs since we play in different conditions and need to do something to speed up play.

Ever hear of Rule 28, Ball Unplayable?  It takes care of that issue and requires no more time than fluffing (don't forget to add the penalty stroke to your score).

[phan52]

Originally Posted by SouthernBuckeye

I have only been playing this great game for three years now, I did not start until I was fifty years old.  Only regret I have is that I did not start when I was young.  However there is one thing that bothers me about the players in my area, they will not play the ball as it lies.  I would say that 90 percent of the players that I have played with will improve their lie before hitting the ball, some will move it from under trees and bushes.  Some play so called winter rules year round.  Every time I question them about it I hear the same old excuse, "we are not pros" or "we don't play for money".  I don't care, cheating is cheating even if you are only cheating yourself.  What I think has drawn me to this game is the fact that golf is the hardest sport I have experienced in my life, I do not believe I will live long enough to master it.  It is supposed to be hard, it is supposed to be challenging, if you don't hit the ball out of deep rough, then you will never learn how to, same for trees, bushes, etc, etc.  I was just wondering if this is something unique to the area that I live in or is it commonplace everywhere, and if it is, why???

As long as they are not playing in a tournament or you are not playing them fo money, leave them be and play the game the right way. They are only hurting themselves if they are posting low scores. Their resultng "reverse sandbag" handicap will bite them if/when they ever play in a tournament.

[phan52]

Originally Posted by phillyk

I play my own game.  If there's money on the line and my partners are fluffing the lie, fine I'll still try to beat them.  But fluffing is the extent of that, because even with fluffing, you may still not hit the ball correctly.  But if you're kicking the ball around or not finishing your putts, those are clear violations that cost strokes. Even in tournaments, where I see my partners fluffing, I'll ignore it knowing that it is wrong, but it is up to him/her to call it on themselves, not me.  And of course, I'll still play my own game and try to beat them none-the-less.

I believe in honor, and that's what golf is. I'll respect another's game, but in the hope they honor and respect the game as I do.

Wrong. In a tournament you are required to protect the field if you see somebody break the rules.

[scottothegreat]

Originally Posted by phillyk

I play my own game.  If there's money on the line and my partners are fluffing the lie, fine I'll still try to beat them.  But fluffing is the extent of that, because even with fluffing, you may still not hit the ball correctly.  But if you're kicking the ball around or not finishing your putts, those are clear violations that cost strokes. Even in tournaments, where I see my partners fluffing, I'll ignore it knowing that it is wrong, but it is up to him/her to call it on themselves, not me.  And of course, I'll still play my own game and try to beat them none-the-less.

I believe in honor, and that's what golf is. I'll respect another's game, but in the hope they honor and respect the game as I do.

What happens if one of these players wins or gets a prize for a low score or net score wouldn't you have a problem with it  then.

[Pablo68]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

Ever hear of Rule 28, Ball Unplayable?  It takes care of that issue and requires no more time than fluffing (don't forget to add the penalty stroke to your score).

True.

I just don't expect my friends or I to lose a shot because the golf course can't keep grass in an area. Hell, they should mark that Ground Under Repair. You shouldn't have to play off rocks unless it's a waste area/hazard IMO.

We play for quarters and that's it. I have to give them shots per side and we're all working stiffs trying to enjoy the game. No sense in adding insult to injury (or even injury to insult) by dinging a club when there should be grass in an area.