Vijay Singh admits to using banned substance in Sports Illustrated ...

[uttexas]

Whatever happened to going to the gym and building muscle through workouts...

For the past twenty years, most professional athletes (including golfers) have spent plenty of time in the gym. Most people that earn their PGA card are exceptionally competitive. Ultracompetitive people willl often test the grey area. Vijay is fifty years old and already works out harder, stretches more, and practices more than the average PGA tour player. Topical deer antler gel certainly hasn't been proven to be performance enhancing. Deer antler gel has as much validity as magnetic wrist bracelets.

[14ledo81]

For the past twenty years, most professional athletes (including golfers) have spent plenty of time in the gym. Most people that earn their PGA card are exceptionally competitive. Ultracompetitive people willl often test the grey area. Vijay is fifty years old and already works out harder, stretches more, and practices more than the average PGA tour player. Topical deer antler gel certainly hasn't been proven to be performance enhancing. Deer antler gel has as much validity as magnetic wrist bracelets.

I know nothing about deer antler gel. Not sure if it has any benefit or not, but it seems it must be something different than magnetic bracelets or they would be on the list as well. If it has not been proven to be performance enhancing, why is it on the list? Would the governing body put it on because they thought it could? And then do further testing?

[uttexas]

Here's a link to the banned substance list [URL=http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/208240/PGATOURANTI-DOPINGPROGRAMMANUAL2009_1_.pdf]http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/208240/PGATOURANTI-DOPINGPROGRAMMANUAL2009_1_.pdf[/URL] Many of the banned substances are listed with their chemical/biochemical name--the vast majority of PGA players would have no idea if some natural compound metabolizes to one of these substances. Then there's the question of whether a topical substance actually passes through the dermal layer for metabolism. I find it curious that the list doesn't discuss inject able platelet therapy (I didn't read all 50 pages thoroughly)--very little data proving it's efficacy, but does increase growth factors.

[mailman]

How did the PGA warn Calcavecchia?

Regards

Mailman

[dave67az]

Originally Posted by mailman

How did the PGA warn Calcavecchia?

Regards

Mailman

Several players from different sports (MLB, NFL, PGA) had endorsed the product in 2011.  When the organizations started looking into it, in August 2011 they decided to play it safe and ban the spray.  The NFL was first on the bandwagon.  Then MLB got on board.

Shortly after this, the PGA Tour contacted Mark Calcavecchia and Ken Green, who had both endorsed the product, and warned them to stop using it.  They both contacted the maker and had their names removed from all promotional material including the website.

The PGA Tour then sent a warning to the rest of the players on the tour.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/44075592

http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-08-12/sports/30032791_1_antler-mark-calcavecchia-cracks

[Chas]

Originally Posted by dave67az

Several players from different sports (MLB, NFL, PGA) had endorsed the product in 2011.  When the organizations started looking into it, in August 2011 they decided to play it safe and ban the spray.  The NFL was first on the bandwagon.  Then MLB got on board.

Shortly after this, the PGA Tour contacted Mark Calcavecchia and Ken Green, who had both endorsed the product, and warned them to stop using it.  They both contacted the maker and had their names removed from all promotional material including the website.

Thank you for this background dave, which does put matters in better perspective.  And it's good to see that at least one person in this thread knows what they're talking about ...

[mailman]

Dave, Is that the right link? There is nothing in there about anyone getting warning letters? Regards Mailman

[dave67az]

Sorry, the statement from the PGA Tour stating they were going to warn players was in a previous link.

Here's the quote from the article and the link (I had posted it on the previous page of this thread so I didn't repost it)...

"The PGA TOUR regularly warns players of the risks associated with all supplements," wrote Tour spokesperson Laura Hill in an email to ThePostGame.com. "Only those supplements listed under the NSF Certified for Sport program are recognized as free of prohibited substances under the PGA TOUR Anti-Doping Program. The PGA TOUR intends to issue a warning to all players regarding the prohibited ingredient contained in 'The Ultimate Spray.'" (http://www.thepostgame.com/features/201108/pga-tour-cracks-down-deer-antler-spray)

Yes, I do realize it doesn't say they have already sent the players letters.

Yes, I guess it's possible they never followed through and warned the players.

(sorry, just anticipating the usual responses to my posts like this...things like "well do you have proof that they were warned" etc.)

A little more info I found out this past week, in case anyone is still really reading this thread...

Can't remember where I read it or heard it (I'll try to find it if anyone really wants a reference...I think it was an online article updating the Singh case last week) but apparently one of the only reasons the PGA Tour adopted a banned substance list was because it was required in order for golf to be considered for addition to the Olympic Games.  I don't really understand that, but if it's true it explains a lot (to me at least) including why the Tour, when deciding what drugs to include on their Banned Substance List, simply adopted the list already used by the World Anti-Doping Agency and updates the Tour's list as the WADA update theirs.

[dave67az]

Found it.

I read this yesterday and it's a single paragraph that caught my eye.

"The truth is that golf likes to think of doping as someone else’s problem. It only introduced a global testing regime when it was apparent it would have to do so in order to win a place in the Olympics."  ( http://www.express.co.uk/sport/golf/390390/It-should-cost-Vijay-Singh-deer)

And this article raises a few other issues if they're going to parallel the rules already enforced by the IOC.

Athletes in Olympic sports have blood testing and out-of-competition testing, and Votaw said that in 2016, golfers on the tour who are identified by their countries as potential Olympic participants will be educated on the process. “We’re confident we have a vigorous testing program,” Votaw said. (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/17/sports/golf/vijay-singhs-admission-puts-pga-tour-on-edge.html?pagewanted=all)

And here:

Votaw said that collecting players’ urine samples at a tournament site before the competitive rounds began — on Mondays, Tuesdays and Wednesdays at most events — was considered out-of-competition testing. “WADA accepts out-of-competition testing as Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday, and we have done that,” Votaw said, referring to the World Anti-Doping Agency, which has developed the antidoping code to which all Olympic sports must adhere.

The athletes under the Olympic umbrella must provide WADA with a daily one-hour window of availability, listing when and where drug testers can find them. Urine and blood samples can be collected.

The PGA Tour does not require players to give their whereabouts, which would make it difficult for testers to collect samples away from tournaments, because some tour members maintain multiple residences on different continents. (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/20/sports/golf/dozens-of-pga-pros-say-drug-testing-is-limited.html)

[ApocG10]

As someone who has done academic studies and dissertations on IGF-1 and Testosterone, it is sad that they are illegal, banned substances. At proper levels, testosterone can increase almost all aspects of ones life, not just strength and speed, and have zero side effects. HGH can heal cartilage, bone, and muscular injuries far better than the human body can alone, and regular injections at proper levels not only repair, but protect and lubricate the joints, cartilage and insertion points from regular injuries sustained by athletes. It also effectively raises metabolism and burns fat. The two drugs together can extend human life, and keep energy and strength levels up much further into life than without. Again, we are talking about low doses, properly monitored by a sports doctor.

Sad that ignorance, fear mongering, and uninformed media lump all 'steroids' in as one, and can't separate those that have proved to be beneficial to men, from those that harmful and damaging, like Trenbolone, T3, insulin, winstrol, etc etc.

[club ho]

Originally Posted by ApocG10

As someone who has done academic studies and dissertations on IGF-1 and Testosterone, it is sad that they are illegal, banned substances. At proper levels, testosterone can increase almost all aspects of ones life, not just strength and speed, and have zero side effects. HGH can heal cartilage, bone, and muscular injuries far better than the human body can alone, and regular injections at proper levels not only repair, but protect and lubricate the joints, cartilage and insertion points from regular injuries sustained by athletes. It also effectively raises metabolism and burns fat. The two drugs together can extend human life, and keep energy and strength levels up much further into life than without. Again, we are talking about low doses, properly monitored by a sports doctor.

Sad that ignorance, fear mongering, and uninformed media lump all 'steroids' in as one, and can't separate those that have proved to be beneficial to men, from those that harmful and damaging, like Trenbolone, T3, insulin, winstrol, etc etc.

I have been suffering from bad knees for years. Too many years of high impact sports tennis, hockey, basketball. I am forced to limp around the golf course at this point. If there is any hope that what you say would help me please give me some contacts that would help me rebuild my worn cartilage and allow me to enjoy walking the course again. I am just looking to remove the discomfort and allow me to play golf relatively pain free.

[boogielicious]

Originally Posted by club ho

I have been suffering from bad knees for years. Too many years of high impact sports tennis, hockey, basketball. I am forced to limp around the golf course at this point. If there is any hope that what you say would help me please give me some contacts that would help me rebuild my worn cartilage and allow me to enjoy walking the course again. I am just looking to remove the discomfort and allow me to play golf relatively pain free.

I have chondromalacia (aka. Pattellofemoral Pain Syndrome) in both knees, also called osteoarthritis.  It is worn cartilage due to the knee cap tracking improperly and worn down through many years of sports.  It can be painful and limiting at times.

I have tried Euflexxa shots in my left knee with some success (http://www.euflexxa.com).  This replaces the fluid in the knee that lubricates the cartilage.  They haven't invented cartilage growing medicines yet, as far as I know.  But Euflexxa works as a lubricant.  You also need to strengthen the support areas around the knee to reduce stress on the joint.

I have a routine that I am religious about: always icing my knees after activity, doing leg strengthening exercises like straight leg lifts with weights, and stretching daily.  I also tape my knee, called McConnell taping.  It works for my knee because it is the knee cap that is the issue.

http://www.physioadvisor.com.au/11343550/patella-taping-mcconnell-taping-physioadvisor.htm

I don't know what your specific knee issue is, but some physical therapy and possibly the above could help.  See a good Dr or PT that understands you want to be active , without pain. Too many Doctors treat middle aged folks just for pain by giving them NSAIDs and say, "Oh well, you are getting older".  Find one that understands what you want.

I have tried glucosamine with only marginal success.  I think it is more of a placebo.

[dave67az]

Originally Posted by boogielicious

I have tried glucosamine with only marginal success.  I think it is more of a placebo.

Well crap, dude.  It ruins the placebo effect when you TELL people about it!

[Chas]

Well crap, dude.  It ruins the placebo effect when you TELL people about it!  ;-)

I don't care who you are that there is fuuuuu-ny.

[ApocG10]

Originally Posted by club ho

I have been suffering from bad knees for years. Too many years of high impact sports tennis, hockey, basketball. I am forced to limp around the golf course at this point. If there is any hope that what you say would help me please give me some contacts that would help me rebuild my worn cartilage and allow me to enjoy walking the course again. I am just looking to remove the discomfort and allow me to play golf relatively pain free.

See your doctor and talk to him about low dose Human Growth Hormone treatments. Depending on your doctor, as well as the rules in your state/country, some will never consider it. Others understand and studied the effects, and believe firmly in it. Have you ever talked to a doctor about hormone replacement therapy?

[boogielicious]

Originally Posted by dave67az

Well crap, dude.  It ruins the placebo effect when you TELL people about it!

Sorry I let the cat out of the bag!

[David in FL]

Hot off the presses.... Tim Finchem says Deer Antler spray is no longer considered a prohibited substance. Vijay's clear!

[tstrike34]

Originally Posted by David in FL

Hot off the presses....

Tim Finchem says Deer Antler spray is no longer considered a prohibited substance.

Vijay's clear!

Wow. That's heavy!