What's wrong with hitting it straight?

[Rudyprimo]

JMHO, most amateurs would benefit greatly from trying to hit the ball straight. And by straight, I mean very little side to side movement of the ball especially on their drives. Maybe a couple yards tops. Most amateurs hit weak fades. They should try and hit the ball straight. It's easier to learn that than to go from a fade to a draw. Once you can hit the ball reasonably straight you can then spend time trying to work the ball one way or the other. Getting back to the OP, he should go with what comes naturally to him, the straight shot. If you can hit 90% of your shots straight, like he wrote, there's no reason to change that unless he becomes a scratch golfer or a really good ball striker and wants to be able to work the ball in the wind one way or the other to counteract the wind and have the shot go straight which is something the pros do. Again, by straight I mean a shot that only deviates a yard or two one way or the other at the most. Golf manufacturers of clubs and balls all try to make their equipment easier to hit the ball straight. You can buy a golf ball like a pinnacle that doesn't spin as much and that helps amatuers hit it straight. There has been some balls made to counteract side spin and they do it so well they are not approved by the USGA for play. Club manufacturers make their clubs, especially their drivers, with a draw bias to help the masses hit the ball straighter. They also make a tour model of the same club with a 1° open face for the very good golfers who want to work the ball. But yeah, if that's your natural shot just go with it. It means you are doing a good job of squaring the clubface to the ball at impact. Why would anyone want to mess with that?

[logman]

Originally Posted by NM Golf

One, don't tell me to ease up. Two, Erik did cover why the traditional thought is hooks go farther than fades, and why that thinking is flawed, yet the debate continues..

Quote:

Do you think all race car drivers are mechanics? Do you think all football players are ready to take over as offensive coordinators, are all ex pitchers ready to start coaching, of course not. Just because someone has the natural ability to perform the action does not mean they have to foggiest how they do it. This would especially be true with someone like Bubba who is self taught and does not even work with a coach. I think I read one time he doesn't even look at his swing on video. Bubba is one of my favorite players on tour, but he would be one of the last guys I would ask for a lesson.

One, You're a moderator, moderate discussion. Two. Erik also spoke about the sort of fades that most of us will see out on the course. And they are those "wipey" hits that go a bit higher and land dead.

This is a game of facts and opinions. I'm saying most slices I see are not as good as draws.

Racecar drivers, football players, pitchers etc. I see your point, but I would say they know exactly how to do it, that's how they became good players. I think we're differing in them passing on the knowledge to another. Though I would argue that you can listen in a different way and understand the "feels" that the champ is telling us.

This site is very analytical in it's view on the teaching of golf. There's lots of angles, a4's, red lines etc etc , but there is more. If a good player says"it feels like I'm....................then I'm going to try to get that feel. Facts and opinions.

[LuciusWooding]

Originally Posted by logman

One, You're a moderator, moderate discussion. Two. Erik also spoke about the sort of fades that most of us will see out on the course. And they are those "wipey" hits that go a bit higher and land dead.

This is a game of facts and opinions. I'm saying most slices I see are not as good as draws.

Racecar drivers, football players, pitchers etc. I see your point, but I would say they know exactly how to do it, that's how they became good players. I think we're differing in them passing on the knowledge to another. Though I would argue that you can listen in a different way and understand the "feels" that the champ is telling us.

This site is very analytical in it's view on the teaching of golf. There's lots of angles, a4's, red lines etc etc , but there is more. If a good player says"it feels like I'm....................then I'm going to try to get that feel. Facts and opinions.

Bubba understands the golf swing like a bird understands skydiving. I'm not saying he can't do it well, but I'd certainly not go for lessons.

There's the analytical side of teaching, and the bullshit side. I'll prefer to stick to analysis rather than pay some schmuck try to use psychology to avoid teaching me what I'm intelligent enough to learn to understand. Talking about transmitting feels is all psychology and no facts; you're trying to trick the person into doing things right or trigger them into understanding something. Or just downright teaching them bullshit on purpose and hoping they make the right errors to counteract said bullshit and miraculously end up with success. That method is sort of like Mr Miyagi teaching the karate kid how to fight almost entirely by painting the fence and waxing his car; it worked in the movie and he was a great mentor and all, but I certainly don't think I'd sign up for it in real life. Plus there's a lot more margin for error in martial arts than golf, muscle memory is more important in fighting, etc.

I could probably make a living selling golf lessons that consist of prayer and ritual sacrifice, and some people would be better off than their current instructors.

[MacDutch]

It's off topic, but I don't agree. People learn differently and therefore need to be tought differently. New topic?

To TS: keep hitting them straight, nothing wrong with it.

Originally Posted by LuciusWooding

There's the analytical side of teaching, and the bullshit side. I'll prefer to stick to analysis rather than pay some schmuck try to use psychology to avoid teaching me what I'm intelligent enough to learn to understand.

[logman]

Originally Posted by LuciusWooding

Bubba understands the golf swing like a bird understands skydiving. I'm not saying he can't do it well, but I'd certainly not go for lessons.

There's the analytical side of teaching, and the bullshit side. I'll prefer to stick to analysis rather than pay some schmuck try to use psychology to avoid teaching me what I'm intelligent enough to learn to understand. Talking about transmitting feels is all psychology and no facts; you're trying to trick the person into doing things right or trigger them into understanding something. Or just downright teaching them bullshit on purpose and hoping they make the right errors to counteract said bullshit and miraculously end up with success. That method is sort of like Mr Miyagi teaching the karate kid how to fight almost entirely by painting the fence and waxing his car; it worked in the movie and he was a great mentor and all, but I certainly don't think I'd sign up for it in real life. Plus there's a lot more margin for error in martial arts than golf, muscle memory is more important in fighting, etc.

I could probably make a living selling golf lessons that consist of prayer and ritual sacrifice, and some people would be better off than their current instructors.

Where do I sign up for lessons So is Bubba Mr.Miyagi

[Oceanvue]

Originally Posted by Ernest Jones

???

Does this supersede everything else you've stated in this thread??

So draws go further because people who play fades suck? Pretty sure Bubba can hit a fade a helluva lot further than I (or pretty much anyone on this forum) can hit a draw.

This gentleman brought up Bubba Watson. My point to the forum Alpha and all the little Beta minions was well bad example because Bubba might be able to hit a fade further than you (or pretty much anyone on this forum) can hit a draw but he himself says a draw has more distance

[Oceanvue]

Originally Posted by NM Golf

While I am sure there are some PGA Tour players with good understanding of the physics behind striking a golf, I would not hang my hat on Bubba being one of them. PGA Tour pros can be just as clueless as you are when it comes to hitting a golf shot. You have to realize that due to recent technologies like Trackman, etc there has been huge changes in what we know happens during the golf swing and contact with the ball. People used to think that draws went farther that fades, we now know that that is simplistic at best and there are numerous other factors involved that actually determine the distance a ball travels.

You just seem to want to argue in the face of logic, and now you have employed the words of a self taught Tour pro whose never had a lesson to try and prove your ridiculous point. Now stop being an ass, realize that you are wrong, and learn from it. Jeez!

You're a moderator? Your overbearing board nature is a symptom of a much deeper condition. You might want to get that looked at

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by Oceanvue

Quote:

Originally Posted by NM Golf

While I am sure there are some PGA Tour players with good understanding of the physics behind striking a golf, I would not hang my hat on Bubba being one of them. PGA Tour pros can be just as clueless as you are when it comes to hitting a golf shot. You have to realize that due to recent technologies like Trackman, etc there has been huge changes in what we know happens during the golf swing and contact with the ball. People used to think that draws went farther that fades, we now know that that is simplistic at best and there are numerous other factors involved that actually determine the distance a ball travels.

You just seem to want to argue in the face of logic, and now you have employed the words of a self taught Tour pro whose never had a lesson to try and prove your ridiculous point. Now stop being an ass, realize that you are wrong, and learn from it. Jeez!

You're a moderator? Your overbearing board nature is a symptom of a much deeper condition. You might want to get that looked at

Keep it up bud.... You're the newb here, not NM.  Your attitude will get you a time out in no time flat if you don't change your approach.

[Harmonious]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

Keep it up bud.... You're the newb here, not NM.  Your attitude will get you a time out in no time flat if you don't change your approach.

Seems there is plenty of "attitude" by all parties concerned in this thread. Shouldn't your advice pertain to regular members as well as newbies?

[SCfanatic35]

Trying to get back on topic here.

If I were wanting to hit a draw or a fade, would that just happen naturally as my swing gets better?

[Paradox]

it will always happen naturally but the idea is to KNOW what you're hitting and understand why so that you can repeat it over and over.

[NM Golf]

Originally Posted by SCfanatic35

Trying to get back on topic here.

If I were wanting to hit a draw or a fade, would that just happen naturally as my swing gets better?

As you grove a swing a natural shot shape will appear. Just try and make sure that shot shape isn't too severe, you don't want to start playing a 30 yard slice.

Also, don't get caught up in the shot shaping too much. While the world's best certainly can move a ball in either direction, they still choose to use their stock shot shape a huge majority of the time.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by Harmonious

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt

Keep it up bud.... You're the newb here, not NM.  Your attitude will get you a time out in no time flat if you don't change your approach.

Seems there is plenty of "attitude" by all parties concerned in this thread. Shouldn't your advice pertain to regular members as well as newbies?

NM has always been direct, but rarely overtly rude.  Ocean is just plain obnoxious.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Rudyprimo

JMHO, most amateurs would benefit greatly from trying to hit the ball straight. And by straight, I mean very little side to side movement of the ball especially on their drives.

We agree. But the simple fact is most amateurs suffer massive curvature issues, as well as contact issues.

So I'd first say the average amateur should strike the ball solidly first. If they do that, a natural shot shape will emerge (find me a golfer who strikes the ball solidly almost every time and yet hits hooks and fades and slices willy nilly without knowing which one will come up next, I dare you). So given their natural shape, they should work to minimize it, regardless of the shape.

Again, the PGA Tour players all have shape to their balls. Almost none play a "straight" shot on purpose. But if you call a ball that curves less than 5% of its flight distance a straight ball, then a lot of them play "straight" balls, and we're having a semantics discussion instead of a golf discussion. :)

Originally Posted by Harmonious

Seems there is plenty of "attitude" by all parties concerned in this thread. Shouldn't your advice pertain to regular members as well as newbies?

I don't see what you're seeing, H. Sorry.

[Harmonious]

Originally Posted by NM Golf

As you grove a swing a natural shot shape will appear. Just try and make sure that shot shape isn't too severe, you don't want to start playing a 30 yard slice.

Also, don't get caught up in the shot shaping too much. While the world's best certainly can move a ball in either direction, they still choose to use their stock shot shape a huge majority of the time.

I think this is the best advice on this thread so far. Sure, if you are behind a tree, that's one thing. But a 15 capper trying to hit fades or draws at will seems to be a recipe for disaster. Heck, it can be a disaster for low cappers as well.

[GaijinGolfer]

Originally Posted by Harmonious

I think this is the best advice on this thread so far. Sure, if you are behind a tree, that's one thing. But a 15 capper trying to hit fades or draws at will seems to be a recipe for disaster. Heck, it can be a disaster for low cappers as well.

Try to hit it straight is a recipe for disaster too because its unrealistic.  Every the pros try to play a draw or fade, whichever is more reliable for them.  If the pros cant hit a straight how is a 20 capper supposed to do it?

[Zeph]

I hit the ball pretty straight for some time. It worked pretty well, but if I could choose, I'd go with a small draw any day. It makes the outcome of the shot a bit more reliable when you got a one way miss. I remember the first time I started drawing the ball. A 180 yard par 3 with OB all the way on the left side, 5 yards from the green, became a totally different hole. I didn't have to worry about the slice anymore. And I didn't have to aim left and take my chances, which often ended up far worse, or in a pull-hook. There was also a par 3 with water on both sides. I aimed at the center of the green and hoped for the best. With a predictable ball flight, I could aim down the right side and have the entire green to miss. There was the occasional straight-push, but I was still dry. This worked great with the driver as well. First I played a draw, but after a while I changed to a fade. It takes some practice, but knowing you almost can't miss left is a big thing. Aim down the left side and fade it a few yards. You don't want a big draw or fade. That could complicate things again. It may work for that PGA player I keep blanking on, but he also struggle at holes going left to right. Find your stock shot and work on it. You can hit that shot 95% (pulled out of the air) of the time. You don't see too many professionals curving it right and left on every other shot. They usually stick to one shape. I can hit a decent draw, but I find it difficult to fade it, so I don't try all that often.

[dsc123]

I've always wondered why playing a straight shot is not better, but just sort of accepted it as something smarter people have decided and something I should accept as true.

But over the past month I've put in some new pieces that have me drawing the ball consistently.  Well, it will either go straight or left, I shouldn't say consistent.  But its not fading on me anymore.  It has been a tremendous help. Before I tried to hit it straight and half the time it would fade. I have much more confidence and find it much easier to hit the part of the green I want to.

I still don't really understand why, but I suspect that part of it is just that I'm hitting the shot that I'm trying to hit.  Instead of hitting it straight and hoping it doesn't curve off line, I'm hitting it off line and hoping it curves back the right amount.  So its easier to plan that shot, aiming to the right half of the green and either I push it to the right edge, or it draws back towards the center.  I don't know that this really explains anything, but I certainly feel like it helps, even if I can't pinpoint why.