2013 Masters Discussion Thread, Update with Tiger's Illegal Drop (Post #343)

[eich41]

Originally Posted by JerryTimes

Funny thing is that I heard that he wasn't going to be penalized until he made that statement.  The board had already reviewed it but changed their decision after the interview

But Tiger did not know that.  He never brought it up.  He signed for the wrong score card.  Had he asked the committee for clarification before signing and they said it was fine, the two stroke penalty would be the right one.  However, we know that isn't the case, and he signed for a wrong card.  That is a DQ point blank period.

[laconic517]

Originally Posted by eich41

But Tiger did not know that.  He never brought it up.  He signed for the wrong score card.  Had he asked the committee for clarification before signing and they said it was fine, the two stroke penalty would be the right one.  However, we know that isn't the case, and he signed for a wrong card.  That is a DQ point blank period.

This isnt fair though.  Under all circumstances where a potential violation occurs, the tournament would ask/notify the player prior to them signing their card.  Augusta screwed up the whole situation by not talking to him prior to him signing his card.

If you are going to penalize Tiger for this we should stop notifying players of penalties based on TV footage during the round to make it fair for everyone.

[CraiginKSA]

Maybe this will help:

[ApocG10]

I dunno, personally, I'm all for doing the right thing, but at the same time, I am all for allowing the rules officials to look after the rules, and the players to look after the playing. Not excusing what Tiger did, but at what point, with all the pressure on them, do we stop making them be responsible for EVERYTHING. In a lot of ways, this isn't the game Bobby Jones played, and i'm guessing that the rule book is far more complex, and far larger than it was when Jones was playing.

I think every group should have a RO, and the onus should be on them to assign penalties. Players should still call on themselves when they know they've broken a rule or moved their ball, but it should not be all on them. Not with all the pressure already on them, compared to back in the day.

[walk18]

Tiger's 2 shot penalty should be enough of a price to pay. End of story. Some people are just out for blood.

[jamo]

Tiger just birdied 1.

[ApocG10]

Originally Posted by walk18

Tiger's 2 shot penalty should be enough of a price to pay. End of story. Some people are just out for blood.

This. he has to come back from 3 penalty strokes to win. If he does so, its another fantastic win.

[ApocG10]

Originally Posted by jamo

Tiger just birdied 1.

Yup, its bothering fans more than it seems to be bothering Tiger.

[mtsalmela80]

Originally Posted by ApocG10

This. he has to come back from 3 penalty strokes to win. If he does so, its another fantastic win.

If Tiger won this tournament in the wake of this controversy, then it would be the biggest slap in the face / insult the game has seen in a while.

ANYONE else would have been DQed. They kept Tiger because of his popularity and what he brings to the tournament.

Whoever is in charge of this decision at Augusta National just lost a lot of credibility for the club.

[eich41]

Originally Posted by walk18

Tiger's 2 shot penalty should be enough of a price to pay. End of story. Some people are just out for blood.

No some people just want the rules and penalties to be enforced, not just arbitrarily enforced depending on who is involved.

Perhaps the three other gentleman who have been DQ'd this year for signing incorrect scorecards should have been given a pass as well?

Or maybe Blayne Barber who DQ'd himself from Q-school because it's the right thing to do?

Naw let's just decide who gets DQ'd and who doesn't depending on the tournament, who the player is, etc.

[golf55]

So with the new 2011 rule no one should be DQ signing incorrect scorecard??? assuming the player didn't know his penalty

[Rick Martin]

Originally Posted by jamo

Tiger just birdied 1.

I pity the fool who wants to mess w/ the Tiger.

[gwlee7]

Originally Posted by thanw

Let me see if I have this right. I hit one OB. I then drop into my own divot taking stroke and distance. I don't like that I have to hit out of my own divot so I take an unplayable lie. That way I could have hit from where he did hit from with only a one shot penalty. So Tiger ended up with an extra stroke penalty and an almost DQ over semantics and the fact that even he after all his tournament play didn't know the rules.

If I understand the scenario you are describing, it would work out like this.  Since you didn't like your ball being in a divot and then took the unplayable, you'd be hitting your next shot with two penalty strokes added.  One for the OB (plus the distance part of the penalty),  and then one more penalty stroke for taking the unplayable.

[ApocG10]

Originally Posted by gwlee7

If I understand the scenario you are describing, it would work out like this.  Since you didn't like your ball being in a divot and then took the unplayable, you'd be hitting your next shot with two penalty strokes added.  One for the OB (plus the distance part of the penalty),  and then one more penalty stroke for taking the unplayable.

Which is better than the 3 strokes total he had to add.

[MyrtleBeachGolf]

If I understand the scenario you are describing, it would work out like this.  Since you didn't like your ball being in a divot and then took the unplayable, you'd be hitting your next shot with two penalty strokes added.  One for the OB (plus the distance part of the penalty),  and then one more penalty stroke for taking the unplayable.

Come on guys....this discussion is pointless. If you drop your ball, and it rolls into your divot, it is NOW CLOSER TO THE HOLE than where you took your original shot, and therefore NOT a legal drop. You would need to attempt the drop again. If you drop a 2nd time directly behind your divot and it hits and rolls into your divot a 2nd time, that will also be an illegal drop. You would then be allowed to place the ball at the spot it hit the ground on your 2nd drop, which should be directly behind your original divot, and as close as possible to where your initial shot was taken from.

[ApocG10]

Originally Posted by eich41

No some people just want the rules and penalties to be enforced, not just arbitrarily enforced depending on who is involved.

Perhaps the three other gentleman who have been DQ'd this year for signing incorrect scorecards should have been given a pass as well?

Or maybe Blayne Barber who DQ'd himself from Q-school because it's the right thing to do?

Naw let's just decide who gets DQ'd and who doesn't depending on the tournament, who the player is, etc.

I dont believe it has anything to do with which player it was. The ruling would have been the same if the circumstances were the same, I think. I don't believe for a second that the Masters committee is favoring Tiger. If TV stations were making the decisions, I would say you might be right, but they aren't.

[VOX]

I keep hearing people say that because the rules committee did not think Tiger violated the rule before he signed his scorecard that that absolves Tiger of a DQ. That is incorrect unless Tiger asked for a ruling (and told a rules official what he had done) and was given an incorrect ruling before he signed his scorecard. I have not heard anyone say that Tiger was GIVEN an incorrect ruling before he signed his card. Therefore he should have been DQed. After the fact, he should have had the class to DQ himself.

[Rick Martin]

Wow, Tim Clark is hot. Can't believe how he gets away with that swing and his alligator arms .....he was just robbed of a birdie on 15, but nearly aces 16 to go -4........overall good guy. Good to see him playing well.