My Swing (nevets88)

[nevets88]

I'm really frustrated with golf right now and am hating it. I keep shanking the ball and am at my wits end. I just totally suck.

 

[iacas]

Yes, that's a shank.

I think I've said this before, but… fixing shanks is pretty easy. Just put a water bottle or something just outside your ball and don't hit it.

That's the super-non-mechanical way to stop hitting shanks. Which is probably more what you need right now than any sort of mechanical way.

Standing there hitting shank after shank is NOT the way to go about fixing it.

[billchao]

17 minutes ago, iacas said:

Yes, that's a shank.

I think I've said this before, but… fixing shanks is pretty easy. Just put a water bottle or something just outside your ball and don't hit it.

That's the super-non-mechanical way to stop hitting shanks. Which is probably more what you need right now than any sort of mechanical way.

Standing there hitting shank after shank is NOT the way to go about fixing it.

@nevets88, I think we've had this conversation before, but I also think you need to practice with more external cues to fix your mechanics rather than focusing on internal ones.

[boogielicious]

11 hours ago, nevets88 said:

I'm really frustrated with golf right now and am hating it. I keep shanking the ball and am at my wits end. I just totally suck.

 

In addition to what @iacas and @billchao suggested for practice, have you tried partial shots on the course instead of full shots? I'm not sure which irons are giving you trouble, but lately I have gone to 3/4 shots for most approach shots under 150 (advice from Erik on another thread). The shorter swing gives me more control and better contact. 

I even use a 3/4 3 hybrid for 160 yard shots with more difficult lies to get the shot higher. I think sequencing full swings is a bit harder too.

For me, my numbers are like this for full/3/4 partial:

PW 115 100

9 iron 125 110

8 iron 140 120

7 iron 150 130

3H 180-190 160

I know you can do partials as I've seen it on the course. Try it on the range and then on the course.

[nevets88]

Thanks for the tips, I'm incorporating the box. @boogielicious I still shank them on partial shots, but I hit a lot of 3/4 swings on the course nowadays to better feel what I'm doing.

 

[iacas]

I completely think you should play and use the box and things and not focus on mechanics much at all.

Totally.

And that you should not really incorporate any of the things I'm going to post in the spoiler.

Spoiler

You are coming down here just fine (left), but then you stall-roll-pull. Your pivot and weight transition stalls, you roll the club around the corner quite a bit, and you pull your hands low and left.

It's too much. Your right foot is still almost flat, and you likely hit a lot more shanks because you're having to roll the face and the club turns the corner near the ball so quickly, you have to get the clubhead OUT to the ball because you're gonna pull it IN so fast.

You might hit more shanks in the first few sessions, but if I was actually working with you, I'd back you up a little and have you swinging OUT and OVER, not anywhere near as low and left as you're swinging here.

It's also a very slow way to swing.

But seriously, ignore that for now. Just play golf throughout the rest of the golf season. Worry about this - maybe - when winter rolls around.

[nevets88]

I’ve been getting lessons from what I think are good instructors, using video, practicing diligently. The defect is me. Body is not going to hold up forever either. This season was not fun at all. I dunno. It’s just not fun anymore. I’ll play but I’m don’t see how that’s going to help. 

[iacas]

Tough talk ahead, tough love.

38 minutes ago, nevets88 said:

I’ve been getting lessons from what I think are good instructors, using video, practicing diligently. The defect is me. Body is not going to hold up forever either. This season was not fun at all. I dunno. It’s just not fun anymore. I’ll play but I’m don’t see how that’s going to help. 

Then quit. I don't know what to tell you.

The past year or two or three you've had a defeatist attitude. You care far, far too much about having a perfect looking swing instead of one that is capable of playing good golf. IMO you have lost your sense of athleticism and become overly mechanical. Like you hear on TV, you're playing "golf swing" instead of golf. I think you're more fearful of what mechanical thing will go wrong or what bad shot you'll hit than the challenge in front of you, than the feel and athleticism and reaction to the shot, than the crisp autumn air and the company of your friends.

Now, bear in mind I don't see you play or practice except what you post here, but you were freer, more athletic, and so on when you were here many years ago. We goofed around by just putting the ball in all sorts of bad lies and seeing if we could pitch the ball lout of those bad spots to the green. We had a putting match or two. We worked on some mechanics, sure, but  we kept the practice session short and we would goof around a bit on the course when we could.

At the end of the day, though, I'm not saying "quit" with any sort of mean intent. You're supposed to enjoy golf. It's not your job. If you don't enjoy doing it, either find a way to enjoy it, or don't do it anymore.

[boogielicious]

11 hours ago, nevets88 said:

I’ve been getting lessons from what I think are good instructors, using video, practicing diligently. The defect is me. Body is not going to hold up forever either. This season was not fun at all. I dunno. It’s just not fun anymore. I’ll play but I’m don’t see how that’s going to help. 

Just play. Get some cheap balls and just think only target, ball. Don't anticipate where it is going to go or how your mechanics are. When I worry about that, I play worse. I am a lot like you in my analytical nature. Stephan (my Evolvr instructor) told me to "just play" for the rest of the season.

Mix it up. Play with 4 clubs, 2 clubs. Do 1/2, 3/4 shots. Don't think about score. Tell folks you are working on things. See how you do on a hole with just a 7 iron or PW. 

Wear ear buds and groove to your favorite tunes. Sing "Baby Shark" the whole round.

Remember that golf is fun. 

[cipher]

19 hours ago, iacas said:

The past year or two or three you've had a defeatist attitude. You care far, far too much about having a perfect looking swing instead of one that is capable of playing good golf. IMO you have lost your sense of athleticism and become overly mechanical.

This here is the key IMO.  I've been there man, maybe worse than what you have going on.  I spent an entire season with the shanks and probably 4 seasons battling extreme snap hooks including at the Newport Cup a couple years ago, and spent nearly three years injured and out of the game  Which includes much of this year. 

I grew tired of having a swing where everyone was telling me it looked so great without the results on the course. It honestly just made me feel worse that the results weren't there.  I'd see other golfers with goofy swings be able to find the ball much better than me. You'll get through this and move on to the next thing.  You'll find a way not to do it, if it is goofy, who cares.  Don't give up, embrace it.  You have to change how you approach it.

I shot a pretty poor round yesterday(haven't really played much this year) and years ago would have been deflated and extremely upset where now I just have a blast doing it.  I hit my driver pretty decently now without any snap hooks, I haven't shanked a ball for years and my iron and driver swings are different and goofy enough that people comment/laugh at it every time I play, until they see how I hit it. I don't care what they think, it allows me to hit a driver and irons the way I want and have fun!  

Edited September 20, 2019 by cipher

[nevets88]

Thanks to all for the encouragement. Yeah, I definitely need to let go of the look of the swing and just be more natural. Gonna pay @iacas a visit and maybe he can talk some sense into me.

6 minutes ago, cipher said:

This here is the key IMO.  I've been there man, maybe worse than what you have going on.  I spent an entire season with the shanks and probably 4 seasons battling extreme snap hooks including at the Newport Cup a couple years ago, and spent nearly three years injured and out of the game  Which includes much of this year. 

I grew tired of having a swing where everyone was telling me it looked so great without the results on the course. It honestly just made me feel worse that the results weren't there.  I'd see other golfers with goofy swings be able to find the ball much better than me. You'll get through this and move on to the next thing.  You'll find a way not to do it, if it is goofy, who cares.  Don't give up, embrace it.  You have to change how you approach it.

I shot a pretty poor round yesterday(haven't really played much this year) and years ago would have been deflated and extremely upset where now I just have a blast doing it.  I hit my driver pretty decently now without any snap hooks, I haven't shanked a ball for years and my iron and driver swings are different and goofy enough that people comment/laugh at it every time I play, until they see how I hit it. I don't care what they think, it allows me to hit a driver and irons the way I want and have fun!  

 

8 hours ago, boogielicious said:

Just play. Get some cheap balls and just think only target, ball. Don't anticipate where it is going to go or how your mechanics are. When I worry about that, I play worse. I am a lot like you in my analytical nature. Stephan (my Evolvr instructor) told me to "just play" for the rest of the season.

Mix it up. Play with 4 clubs, 2 clubs. Do 1/2, 3/4 shots. Don't think about score. Tell folks you are working on things. See how you do on a hole with just a 7 iron or PW. 

Wear ear buds and groove to your favorite tunes. Sing "Baby Shark" the whole round.

Remember that golf is fun. 

 

[nevets88]

Made the trip to Erie, so totally worth it, should have gone earlier. I hit all the shanks and Erik fixed me straight away and more. Here's the 5 minute drill.

Full Swing

Was too out-in, hands swinging too left, rolling wrists. 

• More swinging down target line, feel like swinging arms to right. Swing under alignment stick on downswing, over stick post impact. Bow (palmar flex, motorcycle) wrist earlier and keep bow on whole downswing. Don't stall on downswing, keep going.
• Driver - ball more forward in stance, stand further away from ball.

Preshot routine

• Pick aim spot in peripheral vision.
• Aim face a tad right of aim spot (face tended to be closed).
• Square stance (stance tended to be closed). Feels open but not.
• Solid swing.

Finesse wedges

• Wider arc.
• Smooth tempo.
• Weight on left foot.

Putting

• Backswing and throughswing (is that a word?) equal lengths.
• Stand further away from ball, grip higher.
• Smooth tempo.
• Stand behind ball, look at pin, make practice swings appropriate to putt.
• Take stance, make mental snapshot of ball to pin, make stroke.
• Express read can be on putting line.

Equipment

• Put on new grips.

Looking forward to applying all this, will play as much as I can before season ends. Thanks Erik!

[iacas]

4 hours ago, nevets88 said:

Full Swing

Was too out-in, hands swinging too left, rolling wrists. 

• More swinging down target line, feel like swinging arms to right. Swing under alignment stick on downswing, over stick post impact. Bow (palmar flex, motorcycle) wrist earlier and keep bow on whole downswing. Don't stall on downswing, keep going.
• Driver - ball more forward in stance, stand further away from ball.

Preshot routine

• Pick aim spot in peripheral vision.
• Aim face a tad right of aim spot (face tended to be closed).
• Square stance (stance tended to be closed). Feels open but not.
• Solid swing.

Finesse wedges

• Wider arc.
• Smooth tempo.
• Weight on left foot.

Putting

• Backswing and throughswing (is that a word?) equal lengths.
• Stand further away from ball, grip higher.
• Smooth tempo.
• Stand behind ball, look at pin, make practice swings appropriate to putt.
• Take stance, make mental snapshot of ball to pin, make stroke.
• Express read can be on putting line.

Equipment

• Put on new grips.

Looking forward to applying all this, will play as much as I can before season ends. Thanks Erik!

Yes, and all I have to add is this:

• Take care of your setup stuff. You have as much time, and monitor these things. Become aware of when things are getting out of whack, or if not that, at least take your time and check them now and then.
• Less "agitation," calmer all around. Calmer reads, calmer analysis, calmer setup and pre-shot routine, etc.
• Process your feedback from shots properly: assuming reasonably good contact, start line first (club face), and then ball curve relative to that. The "instinctive" pull to manipulate the path is strong. 

[nevets88]

3 hours ago, iacas said:

Yes, and all I have to add is this:

• Take care of your setup stuff. You have as much time, and monitor these things. Become aware of when things are getting out of whack, or if not that, at least take your time and check them now and then.
• Less "agitation," calmer all around. Calmer reads, calmer analysis, calmer setup and pre-shot routine, etc.
• Process your feedback from shots properly: assuming reasonably good contact, start line first (club face), and then ball curve relative to that. The "instinctive" pull to manipulate the path is strong. 

Oh right! I thought about that this morning before I wrote the above, but forgot to put it down. I have to find that post where you described how you made that PVC thing for the alignment stick. First two bad, last three good:

 

[nevets88]

I forgot one more point on the full swing. Right hand grip, make sure it's strong enough, V to shoulder, right hand tends to weaken.

Wow, comparing the before and after videos, especially DTL, is eye opening. I know exactly what to look for now at the range.

[nevets88]

Excising out the lefts. 

 

[iacas]

9 hours ago, nevets88 said:

Excising out the lefts.

How'd it go?

• Solid, mostly?
• Balls started right and either pushed (straight) or drew?

[nevets88]

14 hours ago, iacas said:

How'd it go?

• Solid, mostly?
• Balls started right and either pushed (straight) or drew?

Pretty good! The sticks really helped. Yes, mostly right and more draws. Mostly solid, a couple of times the old pattern snuck in but not much. Like 5/40 balls. 

I wanted to paste most of the swings in 30fps together but it was a pain in the ass. Like with you, I kept forgetting to motorcycle, and I’ll overdo it as well, hard to find middle but with the good weather, gonna go out there as much as I can while it lasts. 

 

Looked at some old vids and I was setting up face left a lot. I facepalm myself. 

Gonna head over to Home Depot next chance I get to make that PVC stick holder thing.