Masters Bush League Bullying - Everything I hate about Augusta

[Derrick Parker]

What would Bobby Jones reaction have been to all this hoopla? Would he have agreed with the penalty. I think so...he was the kind of guy to call them on himself if need be.

[Golfingdad]

The folks that run golf clubs are the most reactionary, conservative fools. EG. my old, old course refused a married couples discount to my friend because her partner is a woman.Golf is the loser

Thanks log man, this is totally relevant. I now definitely agree that Guan shouldn't have been penalized ... Because there are sexists in Australia.

[Mordan]

The folks that run golf clubs are the most reactionary, conservative fools. EG. my old, old course refused a married couples discount to my friend because her partner is a woman.Golf is the loser

Oh come on you can't equate the fuddy duddies that run golf clubs with the rules officials at these tournaments. The group were put on the clock and informed of this. Guan then received a warning after the first time he exceeded the time limit. He still failed to take this into account and play quicker. I'm glad he didn't miss the cut because of it, and I think the system for promoting faster play could be better but he had fair warning and failed to heed it.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by chico713

Can't believe not one person can see that to tag the 14 yr old with the penalty for slow play, which every other guy out there broke is ridiculous. This is the masters, right? These guys are invited. It's not the open with 144 guys. They tagged him on 17 fairway. What, they couldn't let him play out a hole and a half and deal with it later. As for Augusta, remember what they did to Gary McCord because he said bikini wax and body bags...patrons- that says it alll

No they didn't.  No other group ever got so far out of position that they were put on the clock.  After being put on the clock (which included all 3 players,not just Guan), only Guan failed to play in a timely fashion.  Neither of his fellow competitors failed to make the 40 second limit, only Guan.  If the group had managed to get back in position, then they would have been taken off the clock, but in 6 more holes they hadn't managed to catch up.  In my men's club all three would have been penalized because we didn't have the resources to time anyone individually - being out of position was considered the responsibility of the entire group.

Originally Posted by inthehole

This would have been the biggest outrage in many many years if by penalizing him, he missed the cut.    You'd have a billion chinese countrymen up in arms - this is serious & Augusta played the douche card bigtime.    They should be thanking their lucky stars the kid made the cut & they didn't have to take that kind of heat if he missed it because of that rediculous call.     I would have actually liked to see them squirm under that kind of heat .      The kid saying he respects their decision was a helluva lot classier than most american 14 year old prodigies would have handled it - no attitude whatsoever - he took it like a man.

You're nuts.  He wasn't singled out for the penalty, and he equally shouldn't be singled out to ignore a penalty which he has incurred.  Just because the kid gets a one stroke penalty, China is going to declare war on the US?  Give me a break.  He took it like a man because he knew that he was wrong.  Most anyone (except maybe Michelle Wie) would have taken it the same way.  He still made the cut, but even if he hadn't he would still be the youngest to ever qualify for the Masters, and that should be enough to satisfy even the Chinese national ego.

[logman]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Thanks log man, this is totally relevant. I now definitely agree that Guan shouldn't have been penalized ... Because there are sexists in Australia.

Haha. of course you are always right.

[colin007]

The kid 100% deserves the penalty. No question about it. However, the penalty should have been assessed many times in years prior to this. That this is the first time in who knows how long stinks...

[clutchshot]

Tiger just got a 2 stroke penalty for breaking a rule, I guess Augusta is against black people too... Comon guys, he broke a rule, he got penalized. If he wasn't 14 and Chinese we wouldn't be having this debate.

[Rick Martin]

Tiger says, "Ef this, I'm outahere" "I'm going to Perkins".

[LuciusWooding]

If I showed up late to my job, I'd get in trouble. If I showed up late repeatedly and was warned about it, I'd get fired. Guan is not playing for money, but golf is still his job. His boss decided to be nice and not fire him, a courtesy I wouldn't be given.

This Tiger thing is OT but I think he should've drawn a DQ. They just said on the golf channel, essentially, that ignorance is no excuse according to the rules. But, they say, since he did it on purpose and drew an advantage from it, he should be penalized less harshly for intentionally cheating than for unknowingly breaking the rule. That's how I heard their argument... I don't agree. I think the rules officials should be totally strict or else rewrite the rules to be more lenient and then be even more strict about enforcing them. None of this interpretation bullshit. If there's an unfair rule you don't get to change it, you get to go suck a lemon even if it cost you 2 million dollars and a major. Then the governing bodies can change it if they feel it necessary, but not to overturn the result.

I'd rather they change it from today onward and still DQ Tiger for breaking it yesterday. Integrity means doing things that feel bad sometimes for the sake of ethics. Personally I'd love to let Tiger rehit that first shot that hit the flag because it hurt to watch and it would have felt good to see him hit a good shot. But I'd never allow it because I take the rules seriously and sometimes you get a bad break. Sort of like a sudden gust of wind. You can't wait forever for calm, you need to accept if you don't put the ball where you want it for any reason. Doesn't matter how well you struck it or if you thought you played the perfect shot, or how you got robbed.

That's 4 dropped shots on that hole. The next time I get a quadruple bogey I won't feel as bad...

[DBeane]

The fast play/slow play thing...the reality is that kid has accomplished more in the world of golf in 14 years than that porky "rules official" will ever accomplish in his life...let him have his moment.  I don’t care if it is a kid or not...pace of play is subjective...and no pace of play penalty has ever been received well by players, media or fans.

I have always used pace of play as a tool.  If you are one of those people that constantly wines about slow play...I will grind you to a halt or start pulling you, if you are a slow player...I'll drag you around this course.  Every round of golf is different, the people you play with are different, and you have to be able to adjust.  If you can't adjust your play to the conditions, then saying something about it gives your opponent a card to use against you.

The pace of play argument is old, these are the best players on the planet, if they take 4,5, or 6 hours...then that’s how long it takes to play that day.

[Rick Martin]

Originally Posted by DBeane

The fast play/slow play thing...the reality is that kid has accomplished more in the world of golf in 14 years than that porky "rules official" ...........

The pace of play argument is old, these are the best players on the planet, if they take 4,5, or 6 hours...then that’s how long it takes to play that day.

That "porky rules official" has been in his job for 30+ years and is well respected by the players the tour. He gave more than enough warnings and wasn't the guy deserving blame for enforcing the rules.

As far as your statement about 6 hr rounds, don't think NBC, CBS will be agreeable to pre-empting their prime time TV to cover those long-ass rounds.....and no TV means no big payoffs to the players.

Bring that slow play to any golf course I play on, they'll take your ass and your clubs to your car and ask you never to return to the course, whether you're a paying customer or a member.

[colin007]

[SIZE=10pt][COLOR=000000] [SIZE=10pt][COLOR=000000]I have always used pace of play as a tool.  If you are one of those people that constantly wines about slow play...I will grind you to a halt.[/COLOR][/SIZE]

You would deliberately slow down play to prove your point? That makes you a grade A dick in my book.

[inthehole]

No they didn't.  No other group ever got so far out of position that they were put on the clock.  After being put on the clock (which included all 3 players,not just Guan), only Guan failed to play in a timely fashion.  Neither of his fellow competitors failed to make the 40 second limit, only Guan.  If the group had managed to get back in position, then they would have been taken off the clock, but in 6 more holes they hadn't managed to catch up.  In my men's club all three would have been penalized because we didn't have the resources to time anyone individually - being out of position was considered the responsibility of the entire group. You're nuts.  He wasn't singled out for the penalty, and he equally shouldn't be singled out to ignore a penalty which he has incurred.  Just because the kid gets a one stroke penalty, China is going to declare war on the US?  Give me a break.  He took it like a man because he knew that he was wrong.  Most anyone (except maybe Michelle Wie) would have taken it the same way.  He still made the cut, but even if he hadn't he would still be the youngest to ever qualify for the Masters, and that should be enough to satisfy even the Chinese national ego.

Ok, so you're taking this opportunity to bag on Michelle wie and air your opinion on the Chinese by painting with a broad brush of their national ego. Seriously ?? The kid is the first chinese national to make the cut at the masters & he gets singled out & IF he missed the cut as a result of this jackassery - how welcome to golf do you think the Chinese people would feel about it? It would have been huge news in china and as a nation largely unfamiliar with golf, they would not understand - I'm just saying this was NOT the time or place to administer such a penalty, it would have been absolutely disastrous if he missed the cut as a result. I for one wish he showed a little more emotion about it ...

[rehmwa]

Originally Posted by David in FL

I'd argue that they bent over backwards to avoid penalizing him. To no avail.....

I'd agree.  They should do that with all the players too.  Would help to have an official with each group.  Even an official scorer, not the players.

the kid got plenty of special treatment and chances to avoid the penalty -

I'm not sure why the reporters even think it's a big deal. I was really confused why they asked the rules official if he "felt bad" that it was on a kid and an amateur.  He should have acted confused and asked the reported if he thinks there are different rules for amateurs, or if he babies his kids....

[rehmwa]

Originally Posted by colin007

You would deliberately slow down play to prove your point? That makes you a grade A dick in my book.

I'd agree with you.  But I think his point is that he'd slow down in order to make the other guys play worse.  Not to make a point.

It's a different kind of dick all together.

[Rick Martin]

watching Guan now on Masters.com stream and he's hauling ass - seems pretty fast to me (on 13th hole).  Guess he's a quick learner -  hope we see this young man for years to come.

[CraiginKSA]

Originally Posted by inthehole

This would have been the biggest outrage in many many years if by penalizing him, he missed the cut.    You'd have a billion chinese countrymen up in arms - this is serious & Augusta played the douche card bigtime.    They should be thanking their lucky stars the kid made the cut & they didn't have to take that kind of heat if he missed it because of that rediculous call.     I would have actually liked to see them squirm under that kind of heat .      The kid saying he respects their decision was a helluva lot classier than most american 14 year old prodigies would have handled it - no attitude whatsoever - he took it like a man.

You're kidding with that nonsense right?  You think those rich old guys give a rat's ass what anyone thinks about how they run their tournament? Also, the 1.2 billion people of China barely know that this guy exists.  They think golf is for corrupt capitalists. Awhile back the New York Times wrote 60 front page articles about how Augusta wouldn't let a woman in (does anyone read the NYT anymore?).  Then Martha Burke showed up with about 40 protesters and changed nothing.  More front page articles than protesters - nice.  They're not "squirming" about anything and never will - get used to it.  And the players don't really care about Martha Burke or 14 year old Chinese teenagers either.  They just want to get invited.  The pros are the ones who are squirming that maybe Augusta will just cancel the tournament.

Originally Posted by logman

The folks that run golf clubs are the most reactionary, conservative fools. EG. my old, old course refused a married couples discount to my friend because her partner is a woman.Golf is the loser

How is golf the loser?  What, are they missing out on that all-important homosexual demographic? (which is an insignificant number)

I thought tennis and the WNBA already had a lock on the lesbian population anyway.

[AmazingWhacker]

I love the slow play penalty . .I wish they would assess strokes every week.  But they don't.  In fact, they almost never do.  So my only issue with this ruling is that it seems unfair to single out this amatuer - who is not even a tour player - to assess the first penalty stroke for slow play in 17 years (or something like that).

So he was put on the clock and didn't get back into position.  Am I to understand that he is the first player not to do so in 17 years?

Love the penalty - disagree with this particular application.  If this had been one of the tours many chronically slow players . .or any regular tour member, for that matter, I would not have any question about it.  Now that they have broken the seal on the stroke penalty . .this better not be the only time we see it this year.  I expect to see this penalty weekly . or I am definitely calling BS on the whole thing . .and I know the folks at The Masters are really nervous about what my opinion is, lol.