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mgd150

Ruling on a pin holding the ball up from being chipped in

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Chipped from off the green today, ball would have gone in but it was held up between the pin and the perimeter of the hole.  Obviously falls in when the pin is pulled, is there a special ruling for this?

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Yes. The ball has not been holed until it rests at the bottom of the cup. You carefully remove the pin. If the ball falls to the bottom, it's holed. If you get crazy pulling the pin and the ball pops out, it's not holed and you'll need another stroke......

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Are you allowed to jiggle the flagstick while you're pulling it out? (sophomoric sexual double entendre unintended...)

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Originally Posted by colin007

Are you allowed to jiggle the flagstick while you're pulling it out? (sophomoric sexual double entendre unintended...)

If the flag is leaning towards where you hit your chip from and you pull it out from the other side, the ball's going to fall in 99% of the time.

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The ball should always fall in less you pull it out in a crazy way. Flag sticks are required by rule to be small enough to allow the ball to fit between them and the side of the hole.

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Originally Posted by iacas

The ball should always fall in less you pull it out in a crazy way. Flag sticks are required by rule to be small enough to allow the ball to fit between them and the side of the hole.

OK, I'll be the devil's advocate.  Can you point me to the Rule that states this requirement?

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Originally Posted by rogolf

OK, I'll be the devil's advocate.  Can you point me to the Rule that states this requirement?

Rule 17-4 speaks to the question posed by the OP.

17-4 . Ball Resting Against Flagstick

When a player’s ball rests against the flagstick in the hole and the ball is not holed , the player or another person authorized by him may move or remove the flagstick , and if the ball falls into the hole , the player is deemed to have holed out with his last stroke ; otherwise, the ball, if moved , must be placed on the lip of the hole , without penalty.

As to the rule requiring that the flagstick diameter be such as to allow the ball to fit between them and the side of the cup, I don't know where to find that, but I'll allow it as common sense........if there weren't room, a ball could never be holed without the flagstick in place.  I'm sure someone else can point to a specific rule, likely in an equipment related part of the rules with which I'm not that well versed.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by David in FL View Post

Yes. The ball has not been holed until it rests at the bottom of the cup. You carefully remove the pin. If the ball falls to the bottom, it's holed. If you get crazy pulling the pin and the ball pops out, it's not holed and you'll need another stroke......

It is not necessary to remove the flagstick, only to straighten it so that the ball is allowed to fall.

Note the definition of Holed :

Quote:

Holed

A ball is “ holed ” when it is at rest within the circumference of the hole and all of it is below the level of the lip of the hole .

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogolf View Post

OK, I'll be the devil's advocate.  Can you point me to the Rule that states this requirement?

I misspoke. It's not a rule, just a strong recommendation that is followed by every golf course and flag stick manufacturer I've ever seen.

Quote:
The USGA recommends that the diameter of the flagstick be a maximum of ¾ of an inch, from three inches above the ground to the bottom of the hole. This will leave ample room for a ball to go in the hole when the flagstick has not been removed.

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Originally Posted by Fourputt

It is not necessary to remove the flagstick, only to straighten it so that the ball is allowed to fall.

Note the definition of Holed:


+1, I even recommend you push the flagstick to the opposit of the ball.

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Originally Posted by David in FL

Rule 17-4 speaks to the question posed by the OP.

17-4. Ball Resting Against Flagstick

When a player’s ball rests against the flagstick in the hole and the ball is not holed, the player or another person authorized by him may move or remove the flagstick, and if the ball falls into the hole, the player is deemed to have holed out with his last stroke; otherwise, the ball, if moved, must be placed on the lip of the hole, without penalty.

As to the rule requiring that the flagstick diameter be such as to allow the ball to fit between them and the side of the cup, I don't know where to find that, but I'll allow it as common sense........if there weren't room, a ball could never be holed without the flagstick in place.  I'm sure someone else can point to a specific rule, likely in an equipment related part of the rules with which I'm not that well versed.

The 17-4 rule says "player or another player authorized by him," - so if your competitor/opponent removes the flagstick without your "authorization" and the ball falls out somehow, what is the ruling? Is he (opponent) penalized?

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17-4/3

Ball Resting Against Flagstick Moves Away from Hole When Flagstick Removed by Opponent or Fellow-Competitor

Q. A player's ball is resting against the flagstick. Without the player's authority, his opponent or a fellow-competitor removes the flagstick and the ball moves away from the hole. What is the ruling?

A. In match play, the opponent incurs a penalty stroke and the ball must be replaced against the flagstick (Rule 18-3b ).

In stroke play, the ball must be replaced against the flagstick without penalty to anyone (Rule 18-4 ).

In either form of play, the player may then move or remove the flagstick as prescribed in Rule 17-4 .

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