5SK - My Poor Attempts

[fersman4]

I thought I'd give the 5 Simple Keys ideas a try. At least the first two (steady head and weight forward) seem simple and important enough that I could start to work on them on my own, especially because there isn't a 5SK instructor within 1000 miles of me.

I guess my normal iron swing I keep my head fairly steady on the backswing, but I lurch my entire body, including head, forward a couple inches in the downswing as part of the weight transfer. So today when I kept my head steady in the downswing it got ugly. So many fat shots, and if they weren't fat, it was poor contact anyway. Seems the bottom of my swing arc is farther back with a steady head. Sound about right? Well how about this: the ball position is already in the middle of my stance with my 7-iron, so if move it back, I'm going to be hitting my 7-iron with 4-iron trajectory.

I'm sure it's hard to diagnose without seeing my actual swing, so I guess I'm hoping some knowledgeable folks will reply with generalities. For example, if the center of the "circle" of the swing arc is behind the ball, how could the bottom of the swing arc possibly be after the ball unless you add some unnatural compensations?

[14ledo81]

The head is not the center of the swing arc.

[sofingaw]

You stopped before you got to Weight Forward. If you get the weight forward properly, the bottom of the arc will be after the ball, like its supposed to be. That's the idea, right?

[fersman4]

So the head stays behind the ball, and the core of the body gets in front of it?

[mchepp]

I have a couple of suggestions. For starters I suggest changing the title of the thread. Someone might read it as there being a problem with 5SK themselves and not your implementation of them. The way you wrote your title it looks like you are looking to bash 5SK so I don't think instructors are going to jump in to help if they think the thread is trashing 5SK. Something like "Trouble keeping my head steady" or something like that.

Second is as you mention get a video of your swing. Otherwise any instructor on here is just going to guess.

Third, is likely your compensation move of getting all of your head and body in-front of the ball is done to prevent you from hitting the ball fat. Likely there are some factors that cause you in your normal swing to lose the angles in your wrists, cast the club, and if you are way out in front you can make decent contact. Put your head in a stable position and throw your wrist angles, cast, and you will hit it fat.

Casting has tons of reasons. You can use the search function here and see tons of suggestions on casting.

Likely best to see a video and many of the great folks here can help.

[fersman4]

Well I see no obvious way to change the thread title.

Anyway it seems like what seemed simple at first is not so simple after all. Do I cast? Yeah probably a little, if casting means that I let my wrists relax in the downswing so that I don't force them through impact. You always see those videos of instructors talking about casting and in their example the shaft leans backward at impact. That's not helpful because my casting isn't so obvious as that.

I'll consider making a video, but as I've said elsewhere I learn best with immediate feedback. I guess I better just wait until I get an instructor because I'm just not going to get things right on my own. 5SK sounds terrific, but since I live in the middle of the country (Colorado) where golf instruction is at best somebody's part-time job, 5SK is a pipe dream for me.

[mvmac]

Watching the US Open now but will respond with a couple links you should check out fersman4.  Yes weight forward with a steady head, looks someting like this pic.

http://thesandtrap.com/t/54115/weight-forward-and-secondary-axis-tilt

http://thesandtrap.com/t/29616/the-biggest-secret-slide-your-hips

  fersman4 said:

Originally Posted by fersman4

I guess I better just wait until I get an instructor because I'm just not going to get things right on my own. 5SK sounds terrific, but since I live in the middle of the country (Colorado) where golf instruction is at best somebody's part-time job, 5SK is a pipe dream for me.

Online lessons are always an option, check out Evolvr, which will eventually become 5SK Online Academy

http://evolvr.thegolfevolution.com/

http://thesandtrap.com/t/66413/evolvr-online-instruction-before-and-after-pics

[iacas]

  sofingaw said:

Originally Posted by sofingaw

You stopped before you got to Weight Forward. If you get the weight forward properly, the bottom of the arc will be after the ball, like its supposed to be. That's the idea, right?

This is true.

  fersman4 said:

Originally Posted by fersman4

So the head stays behind the ball, and the core of the body gets in front of it?

You tell me:

  mchepp said:

Originally Posted by mchepp

I have a couple of suggestions. For starters I suggest changing the title of the thread. Someone might read it as there being a problem with 5SK themselves and not your implementation of them. The way you wrote your title it looks like you are looking to bash 5SK so I don't think instructors are going to jump in to help if they think the thread is trashing 5SK. Something like "Trouble keeping my head steady" or something like that.

I've renamed it temporarily for now. I'll consider a better title later.

  mchepp said:

Originally Posted by mchepp

Second is as you mention get a video of your swing. Otherwise any instructor on here is just going to guess.

Not a tough guess - Key #2 or #3 are not happening. Heck, your head might even be going backwards now.

  mchepp said:

Originally Posted by mchepp

Third, is likely your compensation move of getting all of your head and body in-front of the ball is done to prevent you from hitting the ball fat. Likely there are some factors that cause you in your normal swing to lose the angles in your wrists, cast the club, and if you are way out in front you can make decent contact. Put your head in a stable position and throw your wrist angles, cast, and you will hit it fat.

Yup.

  fersman4 said:

Originally Posted by fersman4

Anyway it seems like what seemed simple at first is not so simple after all.

It's plenty simple. You understand the concepts. DOING them is not necessarily simple. If it was, everyone would be a +1 index based on our charts because they could master all five keys.

  fersman4 said:

Originally Posted by fersman4

I'll consider making a video, but as I've said elsewhere I learn best with immediate feedback. I guess I better just wait until I get an instructor because I'm just not going to get things right on my own. 5SK sounds terrific, but since I live in the middle of the country (Colorado) where golf instruction is at best somebody's part-time job, 5SK is a pipe dream for me.

You've not tried evolvr.com. You should.

You shouldn't try any golf instruction at all if you think that you'll be able to "do it" and "get it" IMMEDIATELY, and it sounds very much like that's the kind of person you are. That's not how you make long-standing changes and improvements to your golf swing. The concepts are simple, but it takes work to master them.

[fersman4]

Thanks for the title change iacas. I'm fine with that.

[fersman4]

Quote:

You've not tried evolvr.com. You should.

You shouldn't try any golf instruction at all if you think that you'll be able to "do it" and "get it" IMMEDIATELY, and it sounds very much like that's the kind of person you are. That's not how you make long-standing changes and improvements to your golf swing. The concepts are simple, but it takes work to master them.

I am a practical kind of person. I know that I could be hitting the ball much better, and I know doing so will take a lot of time. It is true that it's difficult for me to go from hitting the ball reasonably solid and reasonably consistent to hitting the ball terribly, given that I have a Men's club tournament round next Sunday. But if I knew it was going to lead to a better swing, I am the kind of person that would pursue it, even if it meant shooting in the 100s for a while. The problem is I doubt I am on the right path to making those changes because I don't have the feedback to know whether I am doing things correctly. Actually the only feedback I have right now is that I keep hitting the ball fat.

So let me ask a question, and based upon your authority as an accomplished golf instructor, I will trust and follow. Which option would you have me choose:

1) Go see a local golf instructor who doesn't know anything about 5SK, who can provide immediate but possibly flawed feedback on what I'm doing wrong (sorry, I just cannot bring myself to ask someone the "nine questions" at least until after a few sessions)

2) Record my swings on video and use evolvr.com, where I get terrific advice and feedback, which comes hours after the practice session in which I just hit a bucket of balls doing the wrong things.

I honestly don't know which is better for my long-term improvement, so I'm looking to your expertise to help me make the right decision.

[iacas]

  fersman4 said:

Originally Posted by fersman4

It is true that it's difficult for me to go from hitting the ball reasonably solid and reasonably consistent

I've yet to meet a 15 who does that.

  fersman4 said:

Originally Posted by fersman4

1) Go see a local golf instructor who doesn't know anything about 5SK, who can provide immediate but possibly flawed feedback on what I'm doing wrong (sorry, I just cannot bring myself to ask someone the "nine questions" at least until after a few sessions)

If you're somehow fortunate to live near a good golf instructor, this option is always best. But there are very few good golf instructors out there, and you're unlikely to find one quickly. A poor instructor can do more to set you back than anything.

  fersman4 said:

Originally Posted by fersman4

2) Record my swings on video and use evolvr.com, where I get terrific advice and feedback, which comes hours after the practice session in which I just hit a bucket of balls doing the wrong things.

That'd be using evolvr improperly.

1) Film your swing. Do it with two left-over range balls sometime.

2) Send it in.

3) Get your analysis back.

4) Work on THAT stuff on the range.

Don't spend time doing the "wrong things."

I'd choose option 2 unless you have a good golf instructor nearby.

[fersman4]

  iacas said:

Originally Posted by iacas

I've yet to meet a 15 who does that.

If you're somehow fortunate to live near a good golf instructor, this option is always best. But there are very few good golf instructors out there, and you're unlikely to find one quickly. A poor instructor can do more to set you back than anything.

That'd be using evolvr improperly.

1) Film your swing. Do it with two left-over range balls sometime.

2) Send it in.

3) Get your analysis back.

4) Work on THAT stuff on the range.

Don't spend time doing the "wrong things."

I'd choose option 2 unless you have a good golf instructor nearby.

I suppose "reasonably solid and reasonably consistent" is subjective. My idea of solid and consistent could be far away from what a good player thinks. I think what I should take away from your statement is that I should not be satisfied with how I'm hitting the ball now, nor should I consider my short-term problems during the learning process to be worse than my current swing, because a good player would consider my current swing to be junk.

Okay evolvr.com, here I come!

[cipher]

Good choice!

[mchepp]

  cipher said:

Good choice!

I second that choice. Remember to listen to iacas advice on working one piece at a time.

[JonMA1]

This question may be impossible to answer, but how does someone know when they are striking ball reasonably well based on physical ability? I mean, at what point does it go from "my swing is completely wrong" to "I have a decent swing and just have to make small, incremental changes? Did those of you who consider yourselves good just know it when you learned your swing?

[cipher]

  JonMA1 said:

This question may be impossible to answer, but how does someone know when they are striking ball reasonably well based on physical ability? I mean, at what point does it go from "my swing is completely wrong" to "I have a decent swing and just have to make small, incremental changes? Did those of you who consider yourselves good just know it when you learned your swing?

I think...yes. :) You will know it.

[mchepp]

  JonMA1 said:

This question may be impossible to answer, but how does someone know when they are striking ball reasonably well based on physical ability? I mean, at what point does it go from "my swing is completely wrong" to "I have a decent swing and just have to make small, incremental changes? Did those of you who consider yourselves good just know it when you learned your swing?

I think this comes down to personal satisfaction. Some may want to shoot par and some may just want to play better than their buddies. That is completely up to you. Ideally you will discuss your goals with your instructor and work towards them.

[fersman4]

I know this has been asked numerous times on this site but I haven't yet found a definitive answer. Yell at me if my question doesn't belong in this thread. My intention is to use my existing digital camera (30 fps) to submit to evolvr. Will they even accept that?

I have had my eyes on the GoPro line for aviation purposes, but I don't yet have the money to pull the trigger on that one. And even so there's the "fish-eye" thing going on, so I'm not sure if it's suitable for golf swings. Will the evolvr folks accept GoPro movies?