Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
fersman4

5SK - My Poor Attempts

21 posts in this topic

I thought I'd give the 5 Simple Keys ideas a try. At least the first two (steady head and weight forward) seem simple and important enough that I could start to work on them on my own, especially because there isn't a 5SK instructor within 1000 miles of me.

I guess my normal iron swing I keep my head fairly steady on the backswing, but I lurch my entire body, including head, forward a couple inches in the downswing as part of the weight transfer. So today when I kept my head steady in the downswing it got ugly. So many fat shots, and if they weren't fat, it was poor contact anyway. Seems the bottom of my swing arc is farther back with a steady head. Sound about right? Well how about this: the ball position is already in the middle of my stance with my 7-iron, so if move it back, I'm going to be hitting my 7-iron with 4-iron trajectory.

I'm sure it's hard to diagnose without seeing my actual swing, so I guess I'm hoping some knowledgeable folks will reply with generalities. For example, if the center of the "circle" of the swing arc is behind the ball, how could the bottom of the swing arc possibly be after the ball unless you add some unnatural compensations?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Want to get rid of this advertisement? Sign up (or log in) today! It's free!

The head is not the center of the swing arc.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

You stopped before you got to Weight Forward. If you get the weight forward properly, the bottom of the arc will be after the ball, like its supposed to be. That's the idea, right?
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So the head stays behind the ball, and the core of the body gets in front of it?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a couple of suggestions. For starters I suggest changing the title of the thread. Someone might read it as there being a problem with 5SK themselves and not your implementation of them. The way you wrote your title it looks like you are looking to bash 5SK so I don't think instructors are going to jump in to help if they think the thread is trashing 5SK. Something like "Trouble keeping my head steady" or something like that.

Second is as you mention get a video of your swing. Otherwise any instructor on here is just going to guess.

Third, is likely your compensation move of getting all of your head and body in-front of the ball is done to prevent you from hitting the ball fat. Likely there are some factors that cause you in your normal swing to lose the angles in your wrists, cast the club, and if you are way out in front you can make decent contact. Put your head in a stable position and throw your wrist angles, cast, and you will hit it fat.

Casting has tons of reasons. You can use the search function here and see tons of suggestions on casting.

Likely best to see a video and many of the great folks here can help.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Well I see no obvious way to change the thread title.

Anyway it seems like what seemed simple at first is not so simple after all. Do I cast? Yeah probably a little, if casting means that I let my wrists relax in the downswing so that I don't force them through impact. You always see those videos of instructors talking about casting and in their example the shaft leans backward at impact. That's not helpful because my casting isn't so obvious as that.

I'll consider making a video, but as I've said elsewhere I learn best with immediate feedback. I guess I better just wait until I get an instructor because I'm just not going to get things right on my own. 5SK sounds terrific, but since I live in the middle of the country (Colorado) where golf instruction is at best somebody's part-time job, 5SK is a pipe dream for me.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Watching the US Open now but will respond with a couple links you should check out fersman4.  Yes weight forward with a steady head, looks someting like this pic.

http://thesandtrap.com/t/54115/weight-forward-and-secondary-axis-tilt

http://thesandtrap.com/t/29616/the-biggest-secret-slide-your-hips

Originally Posted by fersman4

I guess I better just wait until I get an instructor because I'm just not going to get things right on my own. 5SK sounds terrific, but since I live in the middle of the country (Colorado) where golf instruction is at best somebody's part-time job, 5SK is a pipe dream for me.

Online lessons are always an option, check out Evolvr, which will eventually become 5SK Online Academy

http://evolvr.thegolfevolution.com/

http://thesandtrap.com/t/66413/evolvr-online-instruction-before-and-after-pics

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Originally Posted by sofingaw

You stopped before you got to Weight Forward. If you get the weight forward properly, the bottom of the arc will be after the ball, like its supposed to be. That's the idea, right?

This is true.

Originally Posted by fersman4

So the head stays behind the ball, and the core of the body gets in front of it?

You tell me:

Originally Posted by mchepp

I have a couple of suggestions. For starters I suggest changing the title of the thread. Someone might read it as there being a problem with 5SK themselves and not your implementation of them. The way you wrote your title it looks like you are looking to bash 5SK so I don't think instructors are going to jump in to help if they think the thread is trashing 5SK. Something like "Trouble keeping my head steady" or something like that.

I've renamed it temporarily for now. I'll consider a better title later.


Originally Posted by mchepp

Second is as you mention get a video of your swing. Otherwise any instructor on here is just going to guess.

Not a tough guess - Key #2 or #3 are not happening. Heck, your head might even be going backwards now.

Originally Posted by mchepp

Third, is likely your compensation move of getting all of your head and body in-front of the ball is done to prevent you from hitting the ball fat. Likely there are some factors that cause you in your normal swing to lose the angles in your wrists, cast the club, and if you are way out in front you can make decent contact. Put your head in a stable position and throw your wrist angles, cast, and you will hit it fat.

Yup.

Originally Posted by fersman4

Anyway it seems like what seemed simple at first is not so simple after all.

It's plenty simple. You understand the concepts. DOING them is not necessarily simple. If it was, everyone would be a +1 index based on our charts because they could master all five keys.

Originally Posted by fersman4

I'll consider making a video, but as I've said elsewhere I learn best with immediate feedback. I guess I better just wait until I get an instructor because I'm just not going to get things right on my own. 5SK sounds terrific, but since I live in the middle of the country (Colorado) where golf instruction is at best somebody's part-time job, 5SK is a pipe dream for me.

You've not tried evolvr.com. You should.

You shouldn't try any golf instruction at all if you think that you'll be able to "do it" and "get it" IMMEDIATELY, and it sounds very much like that's the kind of person you are. That's not how you make long-standing changes and improvements to your golf swing. The concepts are simple, but it takes work to master them.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Thanks for the title change iacas. I'm fine with that.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Quote:
You've not tried evolvr.com. You should.

You shouldn't try any golf instruction at all if you think that you'll be able to "do it" and "get it" IMMEDIATELY, and it sounds very much like that's the kind of person you are. That's not how you make long-standing changes and improvements to your golf swing. The concepts are simple, but it takes work to master them.

I am a practical kind of person. I know that I could be hitting the ball much better, and I know doing so will take a lot of time. It is true that it's difficult for me to go from hitting the ball reasonably solid and reasonably consistent to hitting the ball terribly, given that I have a Men's club tournament round next Sunday. But if I knew it was going to lead to a better swing, I am the kind of person that would pursue it, even if it meant shooting in the 100s for a while. The problem is I doubt I am on the right path to making those changes because I don't have the feedback to know whether I am doing things correctly. Actually the only feedback I have right now is that I keep hitting the ball fat.

So let me ask a question, and based upon your authority as an accomplished golf instructor, I will trust and follow. Which option would you have me choose:

1) Go see a local golf instructor who doesn't know anything about 5SK, who can provide immediate but possibly flawed feedback on what I'm doing wrong (sorry, I just cannot bring myself to ask someone the "nine questions" at least until after a few sessions)

2) Record my swings on video and use evolvr.com, where I get terrific advice and feedback, which comes hours after the practice session in which I just hit a bucket of balls doing the wrong things.

I honestly don't know which is better for my long-term improvement, so I'm looking to your expertise to help me make the right decision.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Originally Posted by fersman4

It is true that it's difficult for me to go from hitting the ball reasonably solid and reasonably consistent

I've yet to meet a 15 who does that.


Originally Posted by fersman4

1) Go see a local golf instructor who doesn't know anything about 5SK, who can provide immediate but possibly flawed feedback on what I'm doing wrong (sorry, I just cannot bring myself to ask someone the "nine questions" at least until after a few sessions)

If you're somehow fortunate to live near a good golf instructor, this option is always best. But there are very few good golf instructors out there, and you're unlikely to find one quickly. A poor instructor can do more to set you back than anything.

Originally Posted by fersman4

2) Record my swings on video and use evolvr.com, where I get terrific advice and feedback, which comes hours after the practice session in which I just hit a bucket of balls doing the wrong things.

That'd be using evolvr improperly.

1) Film your swing. Do it with two left-over range balls sometime.

2) Send it in.

3) Get your analysis back.

4) Work on THAT stuff on the range.

Don't spend time doing the "wrong things."

I'd choose option 2 unless you have a good golf instructor nearby.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Originally Posted by iacas

I've yet to meet a 15 who does that.

If you're somehow fortunate to live near a good golf instructor, this option is always best. But there are very few good golf instructors out there, and you're unlikely to find one quickly. A poor instructor can do more to set you back than anything.

That'd be using evolvr improperly.

1) Film your swing. Do it with two left-over range balls sometime.

2) Send it in.

3) Get your analysis back.

4) Work on THAT stuff on the range.

Don't spend time doing the "wrong things."

I'd choose option 2 unless you have a good golf instructor nearby.


I suppose "reasonably solid and reasonably consistent" is subjective. My idea of solid and consistent could be far away from what a good player thinks. I think what I should take away from your statement is that I should not be satisfied with how I'm hitting the ball now, nor should I consider my short-term problems during the learning process to be worse than my current swing, because a good player would consider my current swing to be junk.

Okay evolvr.com, here I come!

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good choice!
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Good choice!

I second that choice. Remember to listen to iacas advice on working one piece at a time.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

This question may be impossible to answer, but how does someone know when they are striking ball reasonably well based on physical ability? I mean, at what point does it go from "my swing is completely wrong" to "I have a decent swing and just have to make small, incremental changes? Did those of you who consider yourselves good just know it when you learned your swing?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This question may be impossible to answer, but how does someone know when they are striking ball reasonably well based on physical ability? I mean, at what point does it go from "my swing is completely wrong" to "I have a decent swing and just have to make small, incremental changes? Did those of you who consider yourselves good just know it when you learned your swing?

I think...yes. :) You will know it.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

This question may be impossible to answer, but how does someone know when they are striking ball reasonably well based on physical ability? I mean, at what point does it go from "my swing is completely wrong" to "I have a decent swing and just have to make small, incremental changes? Did those of you who consider yourselves good just know it when you learned your swing?

I think this comes down to personal satisfaction. Some may want to shoot par and some may just want to play better than their buddies. That is completely up to you. Ideally you will discuss your goals with your instructor and work towards them.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

I know this has been asked numerous times on this site but I haven't yet found a definitive answer. Yell at me if my question doesn't belong in this thread. My intention is to use my existing digital camera (30 fps) to submit to evolvr. Will they even accept that?

I have had my eyes on the GoPro line for aviation purposes, but I don't yet have the money to pull the trigger on that one. And even so there's the "fish-eye" thing going on, so I'm not sure if it's suitable for golf swings. Will the evolvr folks accept GoPro movies?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0



  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • 2016 TST Partners

    GAME Golf
    PING Golf
    Lowest Score Wins
  • Posts

    • I know this is "under review" so to speak, but I would echo this. I went back Jeremie's swing thread; his receptivity to direction and subsequent swing changes has demonstrated his dedication, and his obedience has born out marked improvement. Nice job, Jeremie!
    • Errrr.... Typo: Els and not Else... Sorry about that :)
      Is there a way to edit a topic started post?
    • I readily admit that I'm a baby when it comes to humidity. Thankfully I live in a place where I don't usually have to worry about it.
    • Lessons, depending on your arrangement with your home course, can be a much better way to make money than if you just work in the shop.  In the shop I would imagine you're not making much more than $15 an hour, even as a professional, assuming that you aren't salaried to run the golf operation for a city. Even if you charged a relatively cheap rate of $50 an hour for lessons, and the course took half of your inexpensive fee, you would be making $10 more an hour than you would otherwise and it might be more enjoyable that pro shop work for you. Playing lessons could be even more lucrative depending on your rates, and you can even play some golf yourself (either playing with the player or demonstrating a shot, for example).  Youth programs can be highly profitable if that's something you're interested in. A local course with two PGA professionals has a weekly group lesson for junior golfers at $20 per person. On the days that this program is running they easily have 30-40 kids ($600-800) out there working on chipping and putting (and then the kids go out to walk nine holes afterwords). Depending on how your course operates and how busy it is this is something you could look into organizing. Put up flyers both on the course and in public areas where you are allowed to post things to get the word out. If you are somewhat tech and business inclined it might be a good idea to look into starting up a small business of your own selling golf apparel and equipment. Take advantage of your PGA membership and start up accounts with the major brands such as Titleist, PING, Taylormade, Scotty Cameron (they kind of do their stuff separate from Titleist) and put up a storefront on your own website. Squarespace is one web-hosting company I know of that does an excellent job of making it easy for you to put together what you want. Nearly everything in most golf shops is marked up at keystone pricing or higher, so there is definitely profit to be made if you can get some web traffic (and it never hurts to have it up for people to stumble upon).  Look up public courses in your area and figure out who the person in charge of contracting out the golf courses is. The title in my city is the "Golf Operations Manager", but this varies from city to city. Get to know this person and learn when the management contracts for various courses expire so you can put your bid in to run one of the courses on behalf of the city. This is where you'd likely end up making the most money, but it would be the most administrative of the options. You would likely be responsible for hiring, firing, reports, and other day to day tasks but the big advantage is that the city, in most cases, will allow you to use the pro shop to sell your own merchandise. This becomes huge since then the profits (or at least a large portion of them) from every pro shop sale goes into your pocket, though it does come with the added work of managing inventory and negotiating terms with the city. This is, though, by far the most lucrative option that would be somewhat easily (with enough background work and a good proposal/interview) attainable. One other thing, along the lines of the previous point, that you could do is see if there are any professionals that are contracted to run two golf courses through the city. My city currently works this way, but the professional has to subcontract the second course to another PGA professional in order to manage everything smoothly. As a result of this the professional at the course I work for (the subcontracted professional) is now a near shoe-in to win the bid to manage the golf course he's been running when the city contract becomes available this January, just because he has been running the show there for the last four years. Continuing to excel at your current position at the golf course while networking and getting to know your customers (a large factor for the aforementioned pro is that he has developed close ties with the clientele and has increased revenue as a result) is something that will be viewed favorably if you later put in a bid to manage the course.
    • It took me two years to get from a 24 handicap (my starting point) to about a 6-8 handicap when I started playing seriously. It then took me another two years to get from about a 7 to a 2. In the last year I had a big jump that got me from the 2 handicap to my current +1.5, which I would consider to be the largest leap I've ever made (which is somewhat funny, considering I've probably practiced the least in the last year as compared to previous years). It just kind of clicked for me that it's okay to expect to make birdies, whereas before I felt like I never could make any.
  • TST Blog Entries

  • Images

  • Today's Birthdays

    1. JLeeWildcat9
      JLeeWildcat9
      (30 years old)
    2. Ping Man
      Ping Man
      (52 years old)
  • Blog Entries