My Swing (JonMA1)

[Lihu]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

And @Lihu, there are a lot of great players who feel that it's like a "pulling" action. TGM talks about pushing vs. pulling. Hitters vs. Swingers. Whatever the case, "pulling" is a completely legitimate feeling.

Interesting, I suppose it makes sense that different people have different feels then. Possibly different for even for different types of swings as well?

[billchao]

2 hours ago, Marty2019 said:

Fundamentals are called fundamentals for a reason, and foot position is fundamental.

This is OT, but foot position is not a fundamental of the golf swing. If it was, you wouldn't have so many different positions being used by high level golfers.

Certain things you do with your feet (and knees) affect other things, but there's no absolute rule in terms of how you must position them.

[JonMA1]

6 hours ago, iacas said:

I only skim your posts because I've gotten the sense that you get agitated sometimes when people try to help (which is really a frustration with yourself),

I hope everyone who has tried to help over the years realizes this. The frustration is with my inabilities and not with their desire to help.

Still, it's no excuse to act like an ass when people are being so generous. My apologies to everyone for that.

6 hours ago, iacas said:

For example if you're working on pushing your hips forward on the downswing to finish with your weight forward, once you've chosen your club, aim, etc., that has to be the sole swing thought, the sole feeling. Control the process. Make practice swing (i.e. a swing like you make in practice) that just happens to take place on the golf course. Commit to it at all costs - you'll hit some weird shots, but you'll also see glimpses of the good, and EVERY swing should finish on your front foot in that case, or you've not done it properly.

This is what I have to do. I can't care about scores or contact or anything else on the course.

I've always heard that you practice when you're practicing and play when your playing. Maybe I've taken that too literally all this time. A higher percentage of my time on the course has to be devoted towards becoming competent on this one move.

Thank you Erik.

 

---

I wanted to show others what I see. Maybe I'm missing something and the swings are not that much different.

 

Video A. I've reached a certain level of unconscious competence inside. Don't get me wrong, the swing has plenty of issues I'm aware of and likely many more I am not. But the modest goals are normally being met without a lot of thought or effort, and they have been for some time. Contact is normally good.

Outdoor practice area. This starts to get dicey (this was taken at home after coming home from a round shown below). It takes a great deal of effort and concentration to even approach what I can accomplish inside. If I think too much about making good contact I revert to what I know "works", which is....

On the course swing. This is embarrassing to share but it's what's going on. I "love" the way my weight is so far back, my front foot actually slides backwards

The course swing is a complete wreck almost every time I record it. This looks like my swing from 5 years ago, and from 2 years ago, and from last year... 

Part of what has kept me swinging like this (subconsciously?) are the moderately successful results. I will hit my 8i within 15 yards of the center of the green 52% of the time with this gawdawful swing (not saying that's great). While I can make decent contact with it, I don't want to be stuck at 52% for the rest of my life.

I just have to set a realistic goal for some kind of positive change this year.

[Marty2019]

Interesting points about foot position, and of course I yield to the expertise of others, especially @iacas. 

I have found that while pointing the back foot a little backwards does help a person get more turn in their back swing, it also encourages the back knee to flex backwards and in my case, it encourages me to roll my back foot and sway.   Turning my right (back) foot more square encourages me to get my weight more on the inside of my foot and not roll to the outside of my foot.  This seems to keep me more centered in my back swing with more firmness in my right leg.  

Then, turning the front foot more towards the target helps me to get my hips more open when hitting the ball. 

All that seems to allow me to hit the ball just as hard but with less back swing. 

And that's why I thought foot position would be fundamental to a good swing.  And I still think that. 

But like I said, if Erik thinks I am wrong about that, then obviously I need to give it some thought.  

I would still encourage JonMA1 to turn his feet more towards the target, because they way they are positioned, it looks like he's trying to aim 45 degrees to the right. 

 

Edited March 15, 2018 by Marty2019

[JonMA1]

@Marty2019 I will make the adjustment as suggested with my lead foot as it shouldn’t distract from my main goal. I’ll also close my trail foot slightly but will probably leave it angled a bit outward. As a setup change, this shouldn’t require any of thought throughout the swing.

The help is much appreciated.

[iacas]

2 hours ago, Marty2019 said:

I have found that while pointing the back foot a little backwards does help a person get more turn in their back swing, it also encourages the back knee to flex backwards and in my case, it encourages me to roll my back foot and sway.

I'd suggest then that your back knee is doing the opposite of what it should be doing, which is to extend, not flex or bend.

2 hours ago, Marty2019 said:

Turning my right (back) foot more square encourages me to get my weight more on the inside of my foot and not roll to the outside of my foot.  This seems to keep me more centered in my back swing with more firmness in my right leg.

Everyone's different, but in my experience, a square foot is more likely to lead to a sway than what you suggest.

2 hours ago, Marty2019 said:

And that's why I thought foot position would be fundamental to a good swing.  And I still think that.

I can play good golf from a variety of foot positions. I don't think it's fundamental, and players have all sorts of success with all sorts of stances/foot positions.

FWIW.

[billchao]

17 hours ago, JonMA1 said:

 

On the course swing. This is embarrassing to share but it's what's going on. I "love" the way my weight is so far back, my front foot actually slides backwards

The course swing is a complete wreck almost every time I record it. This looks like my swing from 5 years ago, and from 2 years ago, and from last year... 

Part of what has kept me swinging like this (subconsciously?) are the moderately successful results. I will hit my 8i within 15 yards of the center of the green 52% of the time with this gawdawful swing (not saying that's great). While I can make decent contact with it, I don't want to be stuck at 52% for the rest of my life.

I'm going to kind of echo what @iacas said; I think you need a deep dive into making a change. The results you need to focus on should be swing related and not score related.

You're regressing to your course swing because it's what you know works, which is totally normal. I think everybody struggles with that. I think what you need is to make those indoor swings happen outdoors (forget about where the ball goes) and get the confidence you need to trust that the indoor swing will work on the course. Judging by the two, the quality and consistency of strike looks much better in the garage swing.

I really like making swing changes into a net and I think a lot of people get tripped up because they want to know how the ball flight is and where it's going. So they focus on the ball instead of the change they need to make.

Make the proper change and the ballstriking will improve, even if you might have a setback during the transitional phase. 

[JonMA1]

@billchao- Couldn’t agree more with you and Erik. I now know what I have to do this season and how to accomplish it. No posting scores or worrying about shot quality until I see a change (not always easy).

Time to start some new habits. This is totally on me to overcome the demons I’ve had since early on. Do I push myself this time or once again say “f*** it” as I have in the past when it becomes too difficult? 

Not to sound so melodramatic about a golfswing, but why work hard at something only to go nowhere?

[iacas]

7 minutes ago, JonMA1 said:

@billchao- Couldn’t agree more with you and Erik. I now know what I have to do this season and how to accomplish it. No posting scores or worrying about shot quality until I see a change (not always easy).

Nobody said you couldn't post scores.

You just have to hit the ball on the course with your practice swing, and not give a damn where it goes, and then be surprised for a little while when you hit it better overall.

[JonMA1]

Understood. I’ll post anything that’s eligible but I’d already planned on mostly solo rounds this year.

[JonMA1]

Just to update, I've been unable to focus 100% on a singular point during practice, but I'm not going as far off-track as I have in the past. At least, I have said "screw it" yet.

I've taken a lot of video in the last few weeks, looking for a consistent change in my weight forward. Sometimes what I feel is pretty good isn't, and other times when I've felt I've failed miserably, the video shows it wasn't very bad at all. F.A.R.

As much as the weight forward issue is my priority, I feel other keys shouldn't slide backwards. I can get to my front foot almost every time, but not without my head moving a lot.

 I'm also looking for an easier-to-remember move that will accomplish getting my weight forward a bit more automatically and looking at YouTube videos for help - something I've been hesitant to do for the last several years. If some of the content out there is accurate, things such as a partial shoulder turn and poor swing path can contribute to staying back. This is something I'm guilty of doing much of the time.

In the end, I'm still not practicing how I should be. The practice is better,  but not yet good. On a positive note, I have been a bit more diversified with practice time, introducing driver, long irons, wedges and putting into the mix.

---

I'm leaving in a little bit to go play a practice round. This is going to be the first test for:

On 3/14/2018 at 11:12 AM, iacas said:

For example if you're working on pushing your hips forward on the downswing to finish with your weight forward, once you've chosen your club, aim, etc., that has to be the sole swing thought, the sole feeling. Control the process. Make practice swing (i.e. a swing like you make in practice) that just happens to take place on the golf course. Commit to it at all costs - you'll hit some weird shots, but you'll also see glimpses of the good, and EVERY swing should finish on your front foot in that case, or you've not done it properly.

I know this should be easy for most anyone hoping to improve, but based on my history, I'm not sure it will be. I'm going to video record some full swings. Maybe that will motivate me to focus better. The hardest part is always not caring about shot results. I'm not looking for a drastic change, just a little movement towards improvement on key #2. Going to work on full shoulder turn but less followthrough as that seems to help with finishing in balance and with more weight forward.

[billchao]

59 minutes ago, JonMA1 said:

The hardest part is always not caring about shot results.

What you need you do on the course is see what pattern you're hitting that day and adjust to it, instead of trying to get your ball to fly the way you want. Stick to the feel that you're working on and play the ball as it flies.

So if you're used to hitting a low draw and your feel produces a high cut, you need to play the cut and not try to hit a draw.

[JonMA1]

6 hours ago, billchao said:

What you need you do on the course is see what pattern you're hitting that day and adjust to it, instead of trying to get your ball to fly the way you want. Stick to the feel that you're working on and play the ball as it flies.

So if you're used to hitting a low draw and your feel produces a high cut, you need to play the cut and not try to hit a draw.

I read you loud and clear on this and agree. 

What I meant about not caring about shot results was that when my brain's desire is to get a favorable shot result, it switches to the crappy swing it knows will work and overrides the desire to change the picture. (I know, I'm a head case.)

---

When I set out to fail but instead succeed, what have I done?

I took about a dozen videos today. My main purpose in playing at a course was to get something positive in the way of shifting my weight forward. Not that hard, right? It wasn't to score low, or hit farther, straighter, or even make good contact. It was to get my weight forward.

I didn't expect a night and day difference and I did expect it to be difficult. I knew I'd have bad habits take over on some shots, and that those shots would look more like my same old crappy swing on video. Poor shot results would be expected because that would mean I was doing something different.

I purposely did not view the videos while playing and that was probably a mistake. I just recorded and on the following shots concentrate on a full turn and weight shift on every full swing. Some of the shots felt as though I was doing well, others did not. I ended up using GameGolf to track the round, probably another mistake. When I ended the round, I'd shot my lowest score ever despite very poor putting and chipping.

Whatever, I thought. That wasn't the reason I was out there. What I was really excited to see were the videos. When I got to the car, I started looking at them and to my dismay, saw that very little had improved in the way of a weight shift. Same old good practice swings follow by the weight-on-my-back-foot swings when hitting a ball.

I feel bad @billchao, because you and Erik and others take the time to try and help and I know how difficult this is for me to change. It shouldn't be difficult, but it is for some reason.

I'll continue to work on it's. It's not as frustrating as it may seem, maybe because I'm not expecting an immediate transformation. There have been practice sessions which have shown promise. It's just a slow process.

[JonMA1]

Really trying to exaggerate some positions that were seriously lacking from my on-course swing video... 

1. Shoulder Turn

2. Weight Forward

3. Balanced Finish with weight back.

I'm not really sure how to improve on this. I thought if I could exaggerate these while practicing, I might get a little closer while playing. I think that strategy is ok, but since I'm not yet accomplishing those things here, it's a good indication how much work is left towards breaking the old habits. 

 

[iacas]

At about 0:12 in, I'm not sure you're even looking at the golf ball.

You've gotta play like you practice (with the one swing thought/feel, even if it doesn't result in the better shot every time), but you've gotta practice like you play, too - you probably don't let your eyes drift to the right during the backswing when you're playing.

[GolfLug]

@JonMA1, I think darn difficult to not be handsy with such a strong right hand grip especially if so far up in the palm. 

It is easy to overpower the club at impact in a not good way.

[iacas]

1 hour ago, GolfLug said:

@JonMA1, I think darn difficult to not be handsy with such a strong right hand grip especially if so far up in the palm. 

It is easy to overpower the club at impact in a not good way.

Both hands are really strong and pretty palmy, yeah.

[JonMA1]

1 hour ago, GolfLug said:

@JonMA1, I think darn difficult to not be handsy with such a strong right hand grip especially if so far up in the palm. 

It is easy to overpower the club at impact in a not good way.

Thanks for the responses Vishal and Erik.

So I need to grip more in the fingers in my right hand? I never realized I was doing that. I've always felt the club was in my fingers - must be my freakishly short fingers.

 Do you think I should be concerned with that now or continue to work on my weight forward? What do you mean by overpowering the club? Would that result in too many pulls?

I've always done better with a strong grip. With more of a neutral grip, I have trouble closing the club face... lots of pushes. Maybe gripping too much in my palm is the problem?

Thanks in advance.