Grip Strength - Opposites and Compensations Video

[boogielicious]

Originally Posted by iacas

Yeah here's the deal: you'll notice how after the pause I start off by saying "so the takeaway from all of this is…"? I meant to chop that part out, the part to which you're referring. If I was going to continue, I'd say the fix is often going to a slightly stronger grip. But I've removed that portion of the video and re-posted it (or I will have done so by the time you read this).

Thanks.  That is what I have been working on.  With the alignment similar to the right in the video, straight or slightly closed shoulders and hips, I am getting a very subtle push fade still.  It seems controllable for me (I shot one over on Monday in my golf league with it).  My grip is moderately strong.  I am trying baby steps with this.  I get nice flight and good trajectory with the baby fade.  It is just sometimes my courses requires a draw for good placement off the tee, so I want to be able to do that on occasion

[GregZ]

Okay, I just realized from your video that I have misinterpreted what it means to have a stronger or weaker grip. I always thought that rotating my hands more to the left or counterclockwise for a righty was stronger.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by GregZ

Okay, I just realized from your video that I have misinterpreted what it means to have a stronger or weaker grip. I always thought that rotating my hands more to the left or counterclockwise for a righty was stronger.

That's weaker.

[14ledo81]

Very interesting. Especially the subtle setup changes that tend to happen. I struggle with a fairly severe straight push, sometimes it fades a little as well. I kept trying to strengthen my grip, but it did not help. For whatever reason I tried a weaker grip. This definitely helped me get the face pointing a bit more left. Now I can hit push draws with the driver. I also have a very hard time starting the ball left of my alignment. Not that I really want to, but I have tried to do it for an exageration. So for me the strong grip has the face pointing well right, while a weaker grip gets the face pointing more left, just not left of center. Probably something else wrong in my swing causing this.

[GregZ]

I'm an idiot, of all the things I have researched for golf, that's is something I have never looked at and just assumed I was correct. Thank you,

[rehmwa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 14ledo81

So for me the strong grip has the face pointing well right, while a weaker grip gets the face pointing more left, just not left of center. Probably something else wrong in my swing causing this.

Strong and weak grip is just about the grip orientation to the static club face.  You still have to align the club face where you want it.  Open or close your grips 'around' the grip, not while continuing to hold the grip.....(i.e., set up as you do normally, let go of the grip, strengthen or weaken your hand position, regrip the club which didn't move or rotate)

or did I read you wrong?

[[if you held onto the grip and moved the wrists as noted, certainly the club face would open or close as you said, so you have the hand orientation correctly identified for more or less strong....]]

Quote:

I'm an idiot, of all the things I have researched for golf, that's is something I have never looked at and just assumed I was correct. Thank you,

You absolutely are NOT an idiot - standard golf terms can be confusing, and some of them are even used completely backwards to the language (e.g. a shaft with "high torgue" actually twists easier - even though torque is a measure of resistance to twist... ).  We need a dictionary for much of the discussions. It's nice to have this site where some experts can help us.  ((I originally thought 'stronger' meant palms were more outward - so CCW for the left hand and CW for the right - so I was only half correct - and fully confused .  learned by asking a pro))

[colin007]

After all, I'm a reasonably skilled player

Hey, woah! Let's not get ahead of ourselves here... Lol, I keed!! Great thread!

[14ledo81]

Originally Posted by rehmwa

Strong and weak grip is just about the grip orientation to the static club face.  You still have to align the club face where you want it.  Open or close your grips 'around' the grip, not while continuing to hold the grip.....(i.e., set up as you do normally, let go of the grip, strengthen or weaken your hand position, regrip the club which didn't move or rotate)

or did I read you wrong?

[[if you held onto the grip and moved the wrists as noted, certainly the club face would open or close as you said, so you have the hand orientation correctly identified for more or less strong....]]

What I meant was if I start with a square club face and take a stronger grip, I will tend to return to impact with the face way right.  If I start with a square club face and take a weaker grip, I will tend to return to impact with the face a bit more closed, but still right of target.

I just can't seem to start the ball left, unless I try to swing a little bit left as well.

[rehmwa]

ok,  I understand what you meant

IMHO (and recognize that I know nothing)  I think the goal is to weaken or strengthen your grip until you find the setting that most consistently returns the club face to the same angle it was at setup.  Then just hold the club like that all the time.  For me, that's a little on the strong side.  For others, it might be anywhere.

weakening or strengthening it to try to create a lag or lead of face angle at impact (relative to your address position face angle) seems to be a bit odd when you can just swing the same swing and just put the face where you want it (to end up) at address......(but that's what you note you do, and so do MANY others, so it's just my opinion)

.i.e., I try to always return to my setup face angle at impact.  Therefore, if I want to have it open a degree or two at impact, I just rotate the club open within my grip a degree or two at address and then grip and swing like any other shot.  I'd think that would be more repeatable than strengthening my grip vs my normal and hoping I end up a bit open at impact.

For me, I'm a big fan of holding and swinging the same swing as much as possible and letting the physics do the hard work.  Others might prefer to set the club down and let the fitted lie of the club be the same each time and then weaken or strengthen to get the same effect for open or close at impact.  If it works for them, cool.

YMMV, as will others.  In the end, we do what works.

Honestly, face angle control is tricky enough.  I'm getting enough shape control just messing with setup and club path.  I'm not yet good enough to play with grip variations (at least on purpose.....)

[14ledo81]

Originally Posted by rehmwa

weakening or strengthening it to try to create a lag or lead of face angle at impact (relative to your address position face angle) seems to be a bit odd when you can just swing the same swing and just put the face where you want it (to end up) at address......(but that's what you note you do, and so do MANY others, so it's just my opinion)

.i.e., I try to always return to my setup face angle at impact.  Therefore, if I want to have it open a degree or two at impact, I just rotate the club open within my grip a degree or two at address and then grip and swing like any other shot.  I'd think that would be more repeatable than strengthening my grip vs my normal and hoping I end up a bit open at impact.

For me, I'm a big fan of holding and swinging the same swing as much as possible and letting the physics do the hard work.  Others might prefer to set the club down and let the fitted lie of the club be the same each time and then weaken or strengthen to get the same effect for open or close at impact.  If it works for them, cool.

I agree with you here.  Its just that I struggle with getting the face pointing more to the left.  No matter how I grip it, it seems to return to impact more open than it was at address.

[TN94z]

I made a change yesterday (hitting foam balls in the yard) to my grip. I moved from a stronger grip to a weaker grip...probably closer to neutral than actually weak, but it was weakened nonetheless.  It seemed to naturally promote a flat left wrist for me.  And it seemed to make the flight of the foam balls start right with draw spin...what I am looking for.  Obviously I will need to hit the range to verify these results but that lead me to a question...especially after watching your grip strength video.

If a weak grip seems to promote a fade and strong grip promotes a draw, how are my results explained?  Is it more likely that changing my grip just compensated for a swing flaw?  Or is it possible that the weaker grip that seems to help my flat left wrist, has been an issue all along?  I know that without a video you are limited with answers, but just going on this...what are your thoughts?

I felt as though my grip was so strong that it was hurting my progress towards a flat left wrist position. Just to clarify, I went from seeing an easy 3 knuckles on my left hand to seeing maybe 1 if that.  It felt awkward as far as the grip goes, but it strangely made the swing feel more in line.  I'm somewhat confused on my results.

[iacas]

Your results are explained because it's a case of "usually," not "always." As I said you probably were doing little different with respect to Key #3 and you'll need to hit real balls to verify.

[TN94z]

Your results are explained because it's a case of "usually," not "always."

As I said you probably were doing little different with respect to Key #3 and you'll need to hit real balls to verify.

"Not always"....obviously makes sense.  You would think I would know that part by now.

I will be going to the range in the next few days and see.