iacas

Grip Strength - Opposites and Compensations Video

31 posts in this topic

Executive Summary: A stronger grip often results in a clubface that's more rightward pointing (and a more OUTward swing direction), while a weaker grip often results in a clubface that's more leftward pointing (and a more INward swing direction) due largely to the compensations necessary (largely in the third accumulator) to not hit horrible shots like pull-hooks and push-slices.

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Interesting. Definitely debunks what I would typically think about ball flight as a result of  the grip. Also really liked how you pointed out how much of a difference the grip can make in shoulder and hip angles.

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I am absolutely jazzed with this type of info.  THANKS

weak strong - you mean hand position.  not how hard you're squeezing......(((right?)))

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Originally Posted by rehmwa

I am absolutely jazzed with this type of info.  THANKS

weak strong - you mean hand position.  not how hard you're squeezing......(((right?)))

Yes.

I almost mentioned this in my first response. I watched a video of Michael Breed giving a lesson in front of other PGA Pros. He went on for a few minutes about how he avoided using the terms "strong" and "weak" (among others) because they mean different things to different people. I think it was a good point.

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Quote:
I think it was a good point.

Agree.  But Iacas is alway very good about terminology and what they mean in regards to his lessons.  It's something I appreciate in this forum.  Not everyone is fully in doctrinated in the 'standard' language of the activity so definitions are great for the casual player.

on topic - My thoughts on the topic was along the lines of how my hands move through the impact from the different starting grips, but it never made complete sense - something was missing.  Just the visual of the hand adjustment and how that changed the shoulder alignment at address........light bulb moment.  If you start there, the impact on face angle and club path then becomes very clear.  then the mechanics almost shouts the conclusions to you.

I see it's always a good idea when making any change to look at how that affects the entire body before drawing any theories.  A good lesson.  As well as the idea to particularly start with seeing if and how the setup is affected with any type of adjustment.

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Originally Posted by BostonBrew

I think it was a good point.

It is. In lessons I'll sometimes say "stronger" but only after I'm 100% certain the person knows what I mean. Before that, even for good players who one can usually assume knows what I mean, I'll say words like "clockwise" or "more to the right" along with demonstrating the positions so that we're very clear. Eventually I work in that it is a "stronger" or "weaker" grip in most people's definitions, so that if they hear the words they're not confused, and so on.

I've yet to find a substitute that I can use exclusively and ditch "strong" and "weak." They're almost the kinds of words that have become so entrenched that it may not be worth the effort of finding "new" words - even if they're "better" - to describe the grip.

Originally Posted by rehmwa

Agree.  But Iacas is alway very good about terminology and what they mean in regards to his lessons.  It's something I appreciate in this forum.  Not everyone is fully in doctrinated in the 'standard' language of the activity so definitions are great for the casual player.

Yeah, I probably could have done definitions in this video - I remember saying at some point that the left and right hand are more on top or underneath, but that's it. In the end I decided against it because the video is already too long.

Originally Posted by rehmwa

on topic - My thoughts on the topic was along the lines of how my hands move through the impact from the different starting grips, but it never made complete sense - something was missing.  Just the visual of the hand adjustment and how that changed the shoulder alignment at address........light bulb moment.  If you start there, the impact on face angle and club path then becomes very clear.  then the mechanics almost shouts the conclusions to you.

Yes, the grip changing the alignments is one thing. It may even be the biggest thing among some people. I think, though, that most people will change things dynamically more so than their setup changes. After all, I'm a reasonably skilled player, so I make some setup compensations because I know what I want to do in the end - start the ball relatively online from a very weak and a very strong grip. A lot of people might make the same setup, but change their swing dynamically (or they will after they duck-hook the first few!).

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Hey Eric, I know you guys did a ton of research when you were putting together a list of commonalities among the best ball strikers. I'm guessing one of the thing you guys examined was grip. It seems to me that almost no player on the tour uses a really weak grip. I could be completely wrong as I haven't studied the data, but what trends did you guys see regarding strong vs weak grips?
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Originally Posted by pholmes

Hey Eric, I know you guys did a ton of research when you were putting together a list of commonalities among the best ball strikers. I'm guessing one of the thing you guys examined was grip. It seems to me that almost no player on the tour uses a really weak grip. I could be completely wrong as I haven't studied the data, but what trends did you guys see regarding strong vs weak grips?

Corey Pavin and Jose Maria Olazabal are both well known for their weak grips.

But I would agree that the majority of Tour players have stronger grips.

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Yeah I thought of those two, and Tim Clark, I think. But, I can't think of many more. It seems like a hard way to play golf.
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Originally Posted by pholmes

Hey Erik, I know you guys did a ton of research when you were putting together a list of commonalities among the best ball strikers. I'm guessing one of the thing you guys examined was grip. It seems to me that almost no player on the tour uses a really weak grip. I could be completely wrong as I haven't studied the data, but what trends did you guys see regarding strong vs weak grips?

Tiger Woods (less so since working with Foley).

Ben Hogan.

Grips are maybe a hair strong overall, but it kind of depends on how you view "neutral." You could set "neutral" as the average grip, and then there are plenty of weak grips on the PGA Tour. :)

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Ok thanks, you're right about the definition of neutral, I see instructors call grips that seem strong to me, neutral, a lot.
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Is there a reference somewhere with some pictures of what strong is and what weak is? I used to be very strong but have moved to more neutral. I constantly worry that I am going to end up too weak. Some pictures would be nice.

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Thanks Eric, this helps me tremendously atm. Im searching my lost usual path, maybe it dissapeared when I switched to a weaker grip 3 weeks ago. My body compensated without me consiously thinking about it! Will try tomorrow.
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I just weakened my RH grip as well about 20-30 degrees. This video would explain why I didn't hit the shanks I expected to. I thought the change would make the face to open up more through impact, but it did the opposite, I didn't really consciously try to close it. With the stronger right hand grip, I would hit the occasional shank because I was holding the face open.

Do any pros or good amateurs mix their grips by hand? For example strong right, weak left or weak right and strong left? I'm guessing a low percentage?

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Originally Posted by nevets88

For example strong right, weak left

I do that when receiving a volleyball.  Does that count?

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OK, at 9:57 you began talking about a player that starts the ball at target with a slide fade.  You say, "often times the fix for them..."  Then the audio stops.  Then at 10:14 you start with "so then the takeaway from all this is a strong grip will often produce".  What was the fix for the first guy?  Namely me!!!  It's like the missing audio in the Nixon Watergate tapes!  You left me hanging!

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I just weakened my RH grip as well about 20-30 degrees. This video would explain why I didn't hit the shanks I expected to. I thought the change would make the face to open up more through impact, but it did the opposite, I didn't really consciously try to close it. With the stronger right hand grip, I would hit the occasional shank because I was holding the face open. Do any pros or good amateurs mix their grips by hand? For example strong right, weak left or weak right and strong left? I'm guessing a low percentage?

The only guy I've seen do this is chad Campbell, maybe other guys have more examples.

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Originally Posted by mchepp

Is there a reference somewhere with some pictures of what strong is and what weak is? I used to be very strong but have moved to more neutral. I constantly worry that I am going to end up too weak. Some pictures would be nice.

No, because stronger and weaker will vary for each person. Perhaps I could have done a better job being clear, but it's relative to their current grip. So if they're hitting pulls, the fix may be to go to a stronger grip to force the path and face to be more right-pointing at impact (as they may be compensating for the weak grip by swinging left and rolling the forearms to close the face).

Originally Posted by boogielicious

OK, at 9:57 you began talking about a player that starts the ball at target with a slide fade.  You say, "often times the fix for them..."  Then the audio stops.  Then at 10:14 you start with "so then the takeaway from all this is a strong grip will often produce".  What was the fix for the first guy?  Namely me!!!  It's like the missing audio in the Nixon Watergate tapes!  You left me hanging!

Yeah here's the deal: you'll notice how after the pause I start off by saying "so the takeaway from all of this is…"? I meant to chop that part out, the part to which you're referring. If I was going to continue, I'd say the fix is often going to a slightly stronger grip. But I've removed that portion of the video and re-posted it (or I will have done so by the time you read this).

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