Muscle Memory?

[GHIN0011458]

Hi all-

So it is the off season officially for me besides a few scrambles here and there... time to work on the swing. Has anyone heard or seen anything about how many range balls one must hit before muscle memory kicks in? I hit about 150 balls 3 days a week.. I have 6 key points I want to work on with my full swing and 2 things I need to work on with my short game. For people who know how to practice effectively, we can only work on one thing at a time to take those baby steps to correct all the issues.. so I was wondering.. how many balls do I need to hit for muscle memory to kick in?

[saevel25]

Muscle doesn't really have memory.

But, depends on your practice, depends on your current swing, ect..

check out this thread, it has a bit more information

http://thesandtrap.com/t/54840/simple-specific-slow-short-and-success-the-five-s-s-of-great-practice

[MEfree]

I doubt there is an answer that applies to everyone.  IMO, I think hitting 75 balls a day, 6 days a week is going to be more effective than hitting 150 balls, 3 times per week.

I also think it helps to do exercises and/or practice swings.  Visualization is another good tool.

[GHIN0011458]

I doubt there is an answer that applies to everyone.  IMO, I think hitting 75 balls a day, 6 days a week is going to be more effective than hitting 150 balls, 3 times per week.

I also think it helps to do exercises and/or practice swings.  Visualization is another good tool.

Okay here is some more info- I can hit 150 balls and not be tired.. I am scratch so the amount of balls is not an issue.. but time is. I can't make it to the range everyday.. I have hit up to 3 jumbos before and the only reason why I stopped was because I ran out of grass.. My hands don't blister and I don't tear gloves anymore(to a certain extent)

[mvmac]

The new buzz word is myelin.  More on that below.  To answer your question I've heard between 3,000 to 5,000 reps.  That doesn't mean you go out and make 3,000 swings to get it over with.  Take a look at the link saevel25 posted to get a better idea of how to get in those 3,000 reps.

I know Justin Rose, who's made some awesome progress with his swing, starts every practice day by making numerous slow swings.  Maybe taking a minute for one swing, working on where he want to be.  I call it mapping.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324128504578348441614652074.html

Quote:

When I asked him to explain Rose's rise over three years from 67th to 19th to fifth in one measure of long-iron excellence. Foley gave me a one-word answer: "Myelin."

Excuse me? "That's the insulation that wraps around neural brain circuits and helps them fire faster when presented with certain stimuli," he said. Laying down more myelin, over time, helps secure new skills; that's the value of those reps Woods always talks about. " 'Swing change' is really a stupid term, because it's actually just gradual evolution in encoded brain patterns," Foley said.

[Beachcomber]

I need lots and lots of myelin.  Where do I buy this stuff?

[bplewis24]

I need lots and lots of myelin.  Where do I buy this stuff?

That's the best part.  It doesn't cost any money.

[jamo]

I need lots and lots of myelin.  Where do I buy this stuff?  ;-)

I know a guy. Expect a PM soon. [quote name="bplewis24" url="/t/69877/muscle-memory/0_30#post_894852"] That's the best part.  It doesn't cost any money.   [/quote] Shhhhhhhh. I'm doing business here. :-P

[joekelly]

The really useful myelin comes with age:  the younger you are, the more myelin you have. Over age 20, too little to make a difference. Of course, it all depends on what level of golfer you wish to become. Ten H'capper your dream? No problem. Get good instruction, practice. Wanna be a TV pro? Sorry, you are too late in life. Try for POTUS.

[mvmac]

I know a guy. Expect a PM soon.

Shhhhhhhh. I'm doing business here.

I know a guy who knows a guy.  Here's his number

[Maddog10]

If you are scratch, muscle memory has already been established to a large extent.

[chipandcharge]

On how long it takes for muscle memory to kick in, from what I know from research in how people learn to execute a biomechanical motion with repeated accuracy, it depends on your ability to repeat a procedure. This depends on how your mind is organized. People are distributed along a scale of being able to repeat a procedure (like divers, gymnasts, and ballet dancers on one end of the scale, and people who don't like to do the same thing twice on the other. If you observe people in their careers and in their hobbies, you will see these differences. If you are on the former side of the scale, muscle memory may come quickly simply through repeated actions. If you are on the latter side of the scale, you may have to learn the habaits of those on the former side of the scale. I speak from around 25 years of doing research in this are in skill learning.

[joekelly]

Well, chipandcharge, is this 'muscle memory' some kind of genetic attribute or a learned behaviour? I mean myself, even if i had started at age 2 and practiced till my fingers bled, could never, never ever, approach Mozart in piano abiltiy coz i got poor musical genes. But i can learn new things. If the skill we seek is learned, not genetic, then we all have a chance at least to improve. I am positive, like 99.999%, that younger in age means better learning capacity. So in that respect, i'm f*cked!

[chipandcharge]

Joekelly--neuroscientists have explanations for much of what you wrote.  When you look at gifted athletes and gifted musicians,

fMRI research sows that they have superior abilities to develop what they call "memory maps," which the brain uses to direct

the muscles to execute movements.  The more gifted the person, the more highly refined are the memory maps.  Furthermore,

the more gifted, the more these memory maps are condensed and move from the frontal lobes to the rear lobes, which is what

allows them to execute movements so well.  Another interesting outcome of the research is that the gifted ones say that they feel as though

their hands are reaching through the implement, such as the hand feeling through the club face, which may explain things such as eye-hand

coordination in striking sports. On your other point about 2 year olds, who learn sports, music, language, computers, and other tings that

older people have difficulty with--neuroscients say that their brains are uncluttered and can thus form highly efficient neuro paths to process

information quickly.  Adults have cluttered minds and have to use existing linkages, which may be optimized for one kind of behavior but not

for another.  However, even old dogs can learn  new tricks, but you have to find your way to do it.  There's more, but better left for another

time, about what Jungian psychologists refer to as "transcendence," where a person who learns in details must transcend the gap to putting

them together holistically, or where a person who learns holistically must transcend the gap and learn the details.  Sounds like mumbo-jumbo,

but I made my living studying this kind of stuff.

[MS256]

Joekelly--neuroscientists have explanations for much of what you wrote.  When you look at gifted athletes and gifted musicians,

fMRI research sows that they have superior abilities to develop what they call "memory maps," which the brain uses to direct

the muscles to execute movements.  The more gifted the person, the more highly refined are the memory maps.  Furthermore,

the more gifted, the more these memory maps are condensed and move from the frontal lobes to the rear lobes, which is what

allows them to execute movements so well.  Another interesting outcome of the research is that the gifted ones say that they feel as though

their hands are reaching through the implement, such as the hand feeling through the club face, which may explain things such as eye-hand

coordination in striking sports. On your other point about 2 year olds, who learn sports, music, language, computers, and other tings that

older people have difficulty with--neuroscients say that their brains are uncluttered and can thus form highly efficient neuro paths to process

information quickly.  Adults have cluttered minds and have to use existing linkages, which may be optimized for one kind of behavior but not

for another.  However, even old dogs can learn  new tricks, but you have to find your way to do it.  There's more, but better left for another

time, about what Jungian psychologists refer to as "transcendence," where a person who learns in details must transcend the gap to putting

them together holistically, or where a person who learns holistically must transcend the gap and learn the details.  Sounds like mumbo-jumbo,

but I made my living studying this kind of stuff.

The differences in the way we learn is so important one would think it would be more common knowledge (especially for coaches). Drove me crazy before I understood the differences.

I hope you are doing well.

[Brakkus]

You can learn as a child would again, but its letting go of all the things we have formed about ourselves as adults. Most adults have a false perception of themselves by adulthood depending on what influenced them growing up. That then becomes reality because they think that's who they are. You can tap into your potential for learning again by being aware while learning. If you can use feel,sound,vision, and concentration all together then you can learn much faster. It takes commitment and diligence and a calm state to allow the silent intelligence in your body to do this but it can be done despite age. The big reason why children learn so quickly is they learn without ego. They haven't formed ideas about their ability or coordination or whether they can or not they just do. Its later on when other people tell them this person is better than you or your behind so you have to go in the bottom class. Society tells you that there are elite people and average people and so we get a cluttered mind because that's what we've been fed. The trick is to let go of judgement and allow yourself to learn and have no perceptions of yourself or golf. Just learn.

[chipandcharge]

Great post, Brakkus. Gives older learners some clues on how to improve adult learning. I took some tennis lessons from the then current coach of the Austrian Davis Cup tennis team, and he was able to get me to do things I prejudged as difficult for me to do. One difficult thing, though, is that some are more able to "let go," and others are not, based on their personal history of what happened when they did "let go." My history is not positive. My positive history comes from the times when I was highly under control, which makes it difficult to "let go." Still, I agree strongly with your advice.

[joekelly]

Great posts, for sure.  Now, just where is that switch that turns OFF the frontal lobes? I have often wondered if i could train an orangutan to hit my drives. Imagine the flexibility and strength, the lack of ego and desire: POW.