Pants/Slacks or Shorts??

[CaddyshackD]

What you said, only a snob would say - it's not name calling to speak truth.  A rational person would give another the benefit of the doubt, especially when he's brand new to the board and the discussion.  You however, jumped with both feet and fell on your prat.

I didn't realize it was "snobby" to say that I don't appreciate jeans on the golf course.  If that's the case, then 95%+ of all golf courses around the world are "snobby".  It's my OPINION that I do not believe jeans belong on the golf course, and since you don't agree with my opinion that's the end of it and we can move on.  Agree to disagree - conversation over.

[Golfingdad]

It's my OPINION that I do not believe jeans belong on the golf course,

Nobody would have much problem if that's all you said.  But you went one step further and said that anybody who does wear jeans on a golf course (and again I have to reiterate this ... a course that ALLOWS them - we're not talking about the "other 95%.") is low class.  That's where you run into problems.

[SoundandFury]

I guess I'm just confused as to when caring about whether one looks presentable becomae snobbery. No one these days says anything if you were shorts or whatever else to church, but I'm sure as shit no going to. Same goes with weddings, dinner, etc. I live I'm LA where people will actually go to dinner (where they have cloth napkins) in shorts or even worse, a tank top. Most restaurants won't kick them out, but Why would you want to go out looking like a slob? Before anyone thinks I'm simply old and stuck up, I'm 31. Its honestly not so much about respect for the game (because if the course will allow it, you're not disrespecting anything), its about the modern mindset of putting in as little effort as possible. Now the point about jeans not being any less "respectful" than shorts...that's a damn good point.

[k-troop]

I think the point is this-- 1. Wear what you want. If you think jeans are disrespectful at a muni, don't wear them. 2. Part of being in a free society is that you get to enjoy point #1 above, but so does everyone else. 3. If you will judge someone's character solely by the fact that they wear jeans to play golf at a course that doesn't prohibit jeans, then you might have your priorities a little out of whack. And you're probably a tool.

[Golfingdad]

I guess I'm just confused as to when caring about whether one looks presentable becomae snobbery. No one these days says anything if you were shorts or whatever else to church, but I'm sure as shit no going to. Same goes with weddings, dinner, etc. I live I'm LA where people will actually go to dinner (where they have cloth napkins) in shorts or even worse, a tank top. Most restaurants won't kick them out, but Why would you want to go out looking like a slob? Before anyone thinks I'm simply old and stuck up, I'm 31. Its honestly not so much about respect for the game (because if the course will allow it, you're not disrespecting anything), its about the modern mindset of putting in as little effort as possible.

Now the point about jeans not being any less "respectful" than shorts...that's a damn good point.

I'm confused as to why jeans (across the board) automatically means "unpresentable."  If you're talking about frayed, torn, dirty, cutoff, baggy, etc, etc, jeans then, yeah I'd agree that that is unpresentable.  But that would be true about shorts or slacks too, now wouldn't it?

And we've already debunked the wedding analogy several times.  There are all different types of weddings, and with a lot of specifically different types of dress codes.  The same is true for golf courses whether anybody wants to believe it or not.  Not every course out there is a private CC or a nice vacation resort.  I agree that jeans don't belong on courses like that (and so do the owners, because they have dress codes at those places), but nobody is talking about courses like that.  Courses that do allow them are likely in small towns, or rural areas, or they are cheaper municipal courses.

Does anybody think that the same rules would apply to restaurants in Manhattan as they do in some town of 2000 people in west Texas?  Or weddings?  Or nightclubs or bars?  Whatever?  What's so special about golf that it should not follow these same patterns?  After all, it is just a game.

[Dave2512]

I'm confused as to why jeans (across the board) automatically means "unpresentable."  If you're talking about frayed, torn, dirty, cutoff, baggy, etc, etc, jeans then, yeah I'd agree that that is unpresentable.  But that would be true about shorts or slacks too, now wouldn't it?

It doesn't and yes any clothing can be ratty.

I wear Kuhl jeans and I assure anyone that doubts it they cost more than any of my golf pants. I wore them on the course often last winter and compared to just about everyone I was the best dressed. That said it's golf not a preview of the fall Gucci collection. Who goes to the course to get their Mr. Blackwell on? The only way I'm going to see you is if you're slow enough to hold me up or I bump into you in the clubhouse. That said it's CO. I am certain I mentioned this earlier. Jeans are acceptable dress to attend the theater after eating at a 5 star steakhouse. The only time I see overdressed people is prom night.

[jamo]

I'm confused as to why jeans (across the board) automatically means "unpresentable." If you're talking about frayed, torn, dirty, cutoff, baggy, etc, etc, jeans then, yeah I'd agree that that is unpresentable.  But that would be true about shorts or slacks too, now wouldn't it?

It's probably the simple answer you were looking for, but: tradition. There's no tangible reason why cotton pants woven a bit thicker and died blue should be any less nice than cotton pants cut a bit more thin and dyed tan or black. But your forefathers wore wool, so enough with those jeans you lazy hippie slacker!

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

I'm confused as to why jeans (across the board) automatically means "unpresentable."  If you're talking about frayed, torn, dirty, cutoff, baggy, etc, etc, jeans then, yeah I'd agree that that is unpresentable.  But that would be true about shorts or slacks too, now wouldn't it?

It's probably the simple answer you were looking for, but: tradition.

There's no tangible reason why cotton pants woven a bit thicker and died blue should be any less nice than cotton pants cut a bit more thin and dyed tan or black.

But your forefathers wore wool, so enough with those jeans you lazy hippie slacker!

When you start trying to use tradition, you get yourself in trouble.  The only "tradition" in golf attire is that it changes with time.

[mp33 man]

It's probably the simple answer you were looking for, but: tradition. There's no tangible reason why cotton pants woven a bit thicker and died blue should be any less nice than cotton pants cut a bit more thin and dyed tan or black. But your forefathers wore wool, so enough with those jeans you lazy hippie slacker!

I couldn't agree more with this... other than maybe the lazy hippie slacker part. I think that when some say that jeans can be more presentable than shorts I think that you have to look at what most shorts that are being worn on a golf course really are... a shorter version of slacks. They are made out of the same material and are in general the same colors, they are simply shorter for various reasons of comfort. And I will state again that jeans simply belong on a golf course. There is no argument that you can present that will make me believe that you have no way of going and getting a pair if khaki shorts or slacks.

[k-troop]

And I will state again that jeans simply belong on a golf course. There is no argument that you can present that will make me believe that you have no way of going and getting a pair if khaki shorts or slacks.

Thanks for clearing it up.

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamo

It's probably the simple answer you were looking for, but: tradition.

There's no tangible reason why cotton pants woven a bit thicker and died blue should be any less nice than cotton pants cut a bit more thin and dyed tan or black.

But your forefathers wore wool, so enough with those jeans you lazy hippie slacker!

I couldn't agree more with this... other than maybe the lazy hippie slacker part.

I think that when some say that jeans can be more presentable than shorts I think that you have to look at what most shorts that are being worn on a golf course really are... a shorter version of slacks. They are made out of the same material and are in general the same colors, they are simply shorter for various reasons of comfort.

And I will state again that jeans simply belong on a golf course.

There is no argument that you can present that will make me believe that you have no way of going and getting a pair if khaki shorts or slacks.

You ought to proof read your posts.  You just agreed with me.

Dude, you live in Florida.  Try winter golf, 45° and 20 mph wind at 5000 feet above sea level in Colorado and see how comfortable your khakis are.  You will need long johns under them.  I can wear my jeans and be comfortable.  I used to wear jeans skiing, and for winter hiking.  As long as the course allows, when the weather dictates, I'll wear them for golf too.

[SloverUT]

I couldn't agree more with this... other than maybe the lazy hippie slacker part.

I think that when some say that jeans can be more presentable than shorts I think that you have to look at what most shorts that are being worn on a golf course really are... a shorter version of slacks. They are made out of the same material and are in general the same colors, they are simply shorter for various reasons of comfort.

And I will state again that jeans simply belong on a golf course.

There is no argument that you can present that will make me believe that you have no way of going and getting a pair if khaki shorts or slacks.

And there is nothing anyone can say that will make me care if the guy playing with me is wearing a khaki pair of pants or jeans.  All I care about is his attitude and having fun.

This whole argument is ridiculous really.  I don't see how people can be so torn up over what someone else is wearing, particularly when it comes to the difference between jeans and khaki pants.

[wils5150]

I pretty much play until the snow flies up here in stuffy New England so I play when its in the 40's-30's and I am very comfy in slacks.

[Meltdwhiskey]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamo

It's probably the simple answer you were looking for, but: tradition.

There's no tangible reason why cotton pants woven a bit thicker and died blue should be any less nice than cotton pants cut a bit more thin and dyed tan or black.

But your forefathers wore wool, so enough with those jeans you lazy hippie slacker!

I couldn't agree more with this... other than maybe the lazy hippie slacker part.

I think that when some say that jeans can be more presentable than shorts I think that you have to look at what most shorts that are being worn on a golf course really are... a shorter version of slacks. They are made out of the same material and are in general the same colors, they are simply shorter for various reasons of comfort.

And I will state again that jeans simply belong on a golf course.

There is no argument that you can present that will make me believe that you have no way of going and getting a pair if khaki shorts or slacks.

Regardless of what shorts are made of, they are shorts and less formal than pants and in some cases jeans.  You wouldn't wear them to a business meeting just because they are made of something other than cotton.  They are less formal.  Also, pants can be made out of cotton (just like jeans), and are still more formal than shorts or jeans.  Shorts can also be made of cotton.  The materials argument doesn't really hold up.

If the comfort argument is valid, then some people are more comfortable in jeans.  Not sure why it is OK for you use this argument for shorts, but not others can't use it for jeans in cold weather.

Also - I don't think anyone ever tried to argue that they had no way of obtaining khaki shorts or slacks.  What the hell are you talking about?

As far as tradition - like was stated above, it changes and we all have our different thresholds of it.  The difference is you are calling people out if theirs is one step below yours.  If you were truly worried about tradition, you would wear a coat and tie maybe, never use a golf cart, never play ready golf, never take a mulligan, etc.  What you are trying to maintain is a level of niceness or upscale nature or decorum.  And some people think of golf this way - a game of pomp and circumstance.  But others just think of it as a really fun game. And many of those have great respect for the rules, the course, and fellow players that a pants-only guy might not possess.

I've never worn jeans on the course - but can't find a way to get upset if someone does.

[wils5150]

I could be wrong but I bet more courses disallow jeans than do. ( this is just my guess) so I guess us non jeans wearing people don't have to worry about it if we stick to those courses that disallow them.  and everybody can be happy

[David in FL]

I could be wrong but I bet more courses disallow jeans than do. ( this is just my guess) so I guess us non jeans wearing people don't have to worry about it if we stick to those courses that disallow them.  and everybody can be happy

The vast majority of the golf that I play is on some form of public course.  I honestly can't think of a single course that I've played in the last 20 years that did allow jeans.  I may be forgetting one or two out of probably 100+ courses, but even so, your point is spot on.

[jimmyc]

The vast majority of the golf that I play is on some form of public course.  I honestly can't think of a single course that I've played in the last 20 years that did allow jeans.  I may be forgetting one or two out of probably 100+ courses, but even so, your point is spot on.

^^^^^^ Right on^^^^^^^^

[jamo]

When you start trying to use tradition, you get yourself in trouble.  The only "tradition" in golf attire is that it changes with time.  :doh:

Sure, but you know what I'm saying, right? There's nothing tangible about jeans that makes them "worse" than khakis. The only reason we see them as such is because they thought so in 1950, and 1900, and 1800, etc. I'm not saying it's "right" that that's the way we think of things, but I don't think it can be disputed.