Golf League Questions

[mattm16]

I am new to this forum, so if I shouldn't start out with questions, let me know.

I am the secretary for our golf league, and we handicap 100%.  I figure it out based of 35 (front is par 36; back 34).  I take the previous three weeks average, minus 35 and that is their handicap.  A person on the golf league said we should be using 85%, taking their handicap at that point and multiplying by 85%.  He said it should more evenly things out.  I'm not sure I understand how that would work, the giving of strokes should be the same correct?  It shouldn't make a huge difference, or am I missing something?  If anyone runs a league, let me know.

Also, is there any golf league software out there anyone can recommend?

Thanks.

[David in FL]

Welcome to the forum!

The thought process around playing off 85% (or even less) handicap is that high handicap players tend to be more erratic in their scoring, and can (and do) have rounds significantly (5-10 strokes) lower than their handicap pretty often.  Their handicap stays high because of the equally high number of absolute blow-up rounds that they post.  Low handicap players tend to be much more consistent and when they do have a standout round, it's seldom more than a couple of strokes better than their handicap.  When you're playing in a group with a mix of players, the odds are much better that one of the higher handicap players will shoot a better round relative to their handicap than a low handicap player.  By only using 85% of handicap, you negate some of that difference by reducing the handicap strokes received of the high handicap player more than that of the lower handicap player.  As an example, playing off of 85% handicap would lower a 25 hcp by 4 strokes, but a 5 hcp by only 1....a net 3 stroke benefit to the more consistent, lower hcp players.  I know it sounds a little contradictory, but the better players need the extra help in that type of league scenario.

Hope that helps a bit.

[Maddog10]

David nailed it. It's frustrating for a low-handicap players to consistently get beat by guys who have a 20 handicap but have a great round that day and shoot +13. It seems like it wouldn't happen often, but if you get 5-10 guys with a 20 handicap, one of them is likely to have a good round that day. Meanwhile, the guy that carries a 3 handicap has a great round also and shoots one under, but still can't compete with the high-handicap player... Like David said, the reduced handicap percentage helps balance that out.

[MacDutch]

But.....

If the league is a competition over lets say 4 or more rounds, this benefit is lost and becomes a benefit for the better players.

So it depends on what format the league plays.

[mattm16]

This league is a 16 week league with two 8 week halves.  The max handicap a person can have is 18.  Thank you for your explanation; it makes sense now.

For all secretaries out there, can you tell me what league software you use?

Again, thanks.

[rkim291968]

This league is a 16 week league with two 8 week halves.  The max handicap a person can have is 18.  Thank you for your explanation; it makes sense now.

For all secretaries out there, can you tell me what league software you use?

Again, thanks.

Then, 85% does not make sense.   It gives NO chance to high handicappers (and max is capped at 18) to come close to win unless one is fast improving.   It it is a two day tournament, yeah, 100% make sense.

BTW, can I assume that handicap is adjusted after each week?

[mattm16]

Yes, handicap will be adjusted weekly.

[David in FL]

Yes, handicap will be adjusted weekly.

2 thoughts.

1.  Why limit it to a max of 18?  Playing off 85% will have a significant impact on the really high handicap players already, but a 30 hcp is a 30 hcp.......give 'em 85% of their hcp and let 'em play with everyone else....

2.  Adjust hcp every week, but don't limit it to the last 3 weeks only.  A single score, either high or low will have a huge impact on the hcp.  It really encourages sandbagging for someone who knows that they're already out of it for one week.....  Keep a running hcp and as you get further into the season, the hcp swings will be much less violent week to week.  In the 2d half of the season, you might even consider throwing out the low and high score for each player and calculating hcps based on the remaining scores.

And remember......when, not if, but when someone complains about how you're running the league, just offer to let them do it.  That'll shut 'em up in a hurry!

[Club Rat]

Hello Matt.

There are several software apps available for setting up a golf league scoring system available.

You can either run them from a PC, Mac, and possibly Android Tablets, phones, etc.

Also, there are many "online scoring" websites which will tailor to your needs, with how the league is setup.

Many of the features are setup for team competition which keep track of standings, scores, the weekly pairings, etc.

Web base apps are very good for the fact that everyone can review stats, standings, handicaps, scores, etc.

I would suggest taking a look at the following.

1. Smart Golf Scorecard - A web base system, You can setup your own league, it has Smartphone Apps for scoring.

2. GoftSoftware.com

3. Golf League Management Software

4. LeagueBoss.com

5. Intelligolf.com

Another option is to use an Excel based program. There are several available or have someone create a spreadsheet to

track your standings, points etc.

Once you determine how to setup your league, (Team, Standings, Individuals results)

then you should post it and members here could help make suggestions of applications which would be best suited.

The initial setup is very time consuming for any league.

Once you have your database built, then entering weekly scores is usually becomes only a brief time factor.

If you elect to create or use an Excel option, I can answer most questions on creating your spreadsheet for your needs.

Good luck with searching for the many various possibilities.

Club Rat

[Jeremie Boop]

The league I was in based handicap on the lowest score posted in the past x weeks *can't remember exactly* so in order to "sandbag" you'd have to shoot bad scores for several weeks straight in order to get the benefit of more handicap.

[mattm16]

Thank you again for all of your information/help.  I'll check out the web-based solution; also I'll check out the other software to determine if I should use that or Excel.  What I would love to have done automatically, is when I put in the scores it will calculate the handicap, standings, and average for each hole.  I don't know if it is possible, but I would love it to determine the points for each week based on criteria I specified.  This year I it was two man teams and each team had an A and B player.  The A player played the A, and the B played the B.  Then the points were added up for team results.

[Club Rat]

Matt, take a look at a "template" created and posted on the www.

http://www.contextures.com/excel-template-golf-scores.html

I used it as a base and made modifications to fit my requirements.

Club Rat

									Annual Summary  2012
Club Rat
				Low Score	73			Low Net	65		7.2	Index	Start of season			4.3	Index	Rounds this year
				Avg Score	81			Avg Net	74		5.1	Index	End of season
	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	Front	10	11	12	13	14	15	16	17	18	Back	Total
Course Par	4	5	4	3	5	4	4	3	4	36	4	5	3	4	4	3	5	4	4	36	72
Average	4.3	5.5	4.3	3.8	5.3	4.6	4.3	3.6	4.5	40.2	4.6	5.5	3.6	4.6	4.5	3.3	5.7	4.5	4.6	40.9	81.1
<= -3	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Eagles	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Birdies	2	3	5	1	6	0	3	2	4	26	4	3	3	0	0	4	5	5	3	27	53
Pars	22	20	20	17	19	20	22	14	16	170	16	18	16	18	21	20	13	19	14	155	325
Bogeys	12	9	9	10	9	14	11	17	12	103	11	11	10	15	13	11	8	7	16	102	205
Double Bogeys	1	3	2	7	2	2	0	4	4	25	4	4	7	3	3	2	10	4	4	41	66
>= +3	0	2	1	2	1	1	1	0	1	9	2	1	1	1	0	0	1	2	0	8	17
Total	160	203	160	140	195	169	159	134	167	1487	169	204	135	172	167	122	211	165	169	1514	3001
Diff to Par	0.32	0.49	0.32	0.78	0.27	0.57	0.3	0.62	0.51		0.57	0.51	0.65	0.65	0.51	0.3	0.7	0.46	0.57
Rank	6	5	6	1	9	3	8	2	4		4	6	2	3	6	9	1	8	4
Rounds Played	40								Team	$390		Won	15	Times		Pct. Won	38%	Team Game
Entry Fees	$800								Gross Skins	$254		Won	13	Times
YTD Winnings	$840								Net Skins	$109		Won	8	Times		Gold	Tees	0
Net Winnings	$40								Low Net	$58		Won	2	Times		Black	Tees	4
									CTP	$78		Won	2	Times		Blue	Tees	33
Best Payday	$123								Opening Day	$35						Blu/Wht	Tees	0
YTD Gross Rank	2								One Club	$0						White	Tees	0
YTD Net Rank	23								Robinson Cup	$0						Red/Wht	Tees	0
Net Rds Under Par	14

[Spitfisher]

Welcome to the forum!

The thought process around playing off 85% (or even less) handicap is that high handicap players tend to be more erratic in their scoring, and can (and do) have rounds significantly (5-10 strokes) lower than their handicap pretty often.  Their handicap stays high because of the equally high number of absolute blow-up rounds that they post.  Low handicap players tend to be much more consistent and when they do have a standout round, it's seldom more than a couple of strokes better than their handicap.  When you're playing in a group with a mix of players, the odds are much better that one of the higher handicap players will shoot a better round relative to their handicap than a low handicap player.  By only using 85% of handicap, you negate some of that difference by reducing the handicap strokes received of the high handicap player more than that of the lower handicap player.  As an example, playing off of 85% handicap would lower a 25 hcp by 4 strokes, but a 5 hcp by only 1....a net 3 stroke benefit to the more consistent, lower hcp players.  I know it sounds a little contradictory, but the better players need the extra help in that type of league scenario.

Hope that helps a bit.

Just about to offer the same advice for league play....I would prefer 75%, but at 100% you really are doing the sand baggers a great service. Out of 35 players there is a least 15-18 players with an incorrect  handicap, including a couple of too low handicaps.

[pjchangmd]

Hi all, I also am new to the forum.  I am in charge of setting up a league next spring so I have a lot of time.   I have many questions but the one principally on my mind is how many players to allow on a team.  It seems like two an teams is the most common.  But many allow for 1 or 4.  And just with the discussion above for handicaps, the set-up of a league seems all over the place.  As someone setting one up for the first time, please help!  BTW, I have been advised to set hcp % at 80 percent for the reason spitfisher above just mentioned

[CoachinPA]

We use USGA handicapping.  with Equitable Stroke Control.  So scores get adjusted and then used for handicapping.  We use an online website that takes care of all of the complicated scorekeeping/ handicapping.

As for the high versus low handicapper and the 85% rule, it really won't matter over a long period as long as you don't drop any scores.  We play 10 week seasons and only keep the best 5 rounds.  so in our case the Equitable Stroke Control makes it pretty even.