The (un)Affordable Health Care Act & Debt Ceiling Controversies

[Mr. Desmond]

The[quote name="iacas" url="/t/70579/the-un-affordable-health-care-act-debt-ceiling-controversies/180#post_910959"] That's not really a response to what he said. I don't care much about politics, but I skim almost every thread and post here, and comments like this do more to discourage me from giving weight to your other points than to making them. Posts like the above make you look conceited, stupid, and several other things which you are likely not. Could the post to which you responded have had more substance? Of course. But while I assign virtually no weight to its point, posts like yours actually warrant a slightly negative response. [/quote]then I suggest you delete it. When a whacko makes a whacko post, it gets a whacko reply. Moderate away I do not care

[iacas]

The

then I suggest you delete it.

When a whacko makes a whacko post, it gets a whacko reply.

Moderate away

I do not care

My post could have helped you - it pointed out how your post could turn someone (an "undecided" perhaps) against your point of view - but you responded like that. How grand of you.

And as you know, we don't delete posts because they're stupid or are off-putting or work contrary to how the poster would like.

And the rules apply evenly to all - call someone names again, you spend time in the Penalty Box. Knock it off.

[boogielicious]

So far, 500 million lines of code "written", not debugged apparently, billions of dollars spent.

Only "thousands" of people are signed up?

Even the worst private insurance company can't be this inefficient.

Just an observation from a politically moderate engineer.

We lost 24 Billion during the shutdown when they weren't working.

The sign-ups don't get counted until the first payment, which is due in December.

All private insurance companies are at least that bad (I have BCBS and they suck).  BCBS made me get authorization for a prescription from my Doctor.  Um, isn't the "prescription" the authorization?  My rates have been going up and coverage going down for years and it has nothing to do with the ACA.  My car insurance dropped me for actually making a claim.  I mean Geez! How could I have the audacity to make a claim!  I am just supposed to send them money, right?

I am also moderate and an engineer.  But I am tired of both sides sounding Armageddon when they don't like or understand or even take the time to read up on things.

[Golfingdad]

There you go again with the "S" and "C" words.  You just cannot articulate any point without it.  News flash, having a military or police force or Fire Dept paid for by the people is also socialist. Fixing roads and bridges with money from your tax dollars is also socialist.  Paying farmers subsidies even though their crops did well is also socialist.  Having the tax dollars from the Northeast, CA, Illinois, TX flow to other states is also socialist.  You just conveniently call certain things socialist and forget the rest.

As for redistribution of wealth, the Ponzi scheme known as "trickle down economics" is the biggest sucker play ever put forth by politicians.  I love paying Mitt Romney's taxes.  Really I do.  It also makes my day knowing I pay in full every year and GE doesn't pay at all.

I agree.

I am a card-carrying liberal**, but I can understand conservative's who complain about Democrats "entitlement" programs like Welfare and things and can point to people who abuse the system.  I agree that it's imperfect.  But what I don't agree with is referring to something like welfare as an entitlement and calling a person who is on welfare a leech, and at the same time being OK with rich people and corporations (like GE, for example) finding loopholes in the tax code to save millions of dollars.  What's the difference?  (Other than the fact that it will take a whole hell of a lot of poor people to cost the government as much as one big company)

Another example:  California has programs to allow for paternity leave.  Basically, for up to 3 weeks (I think) during the childs first year, the state will pay you 55% of your salary for staying home with your child.  To me, that (and tax breaks for rish people and big companies) are just as much as a "government handout" as welfare.

It's OK to have a problem with welfare, but to throw names at it like "entitlement" and "socialist program" and such, and not recognize the lack of difference between that and tax loopholes is, I believe, hypocritical.

**That's just an expression, right?  Otherwise, I probably need to head down to the DMV because I actually never got my card. ;)

[saevel25]

Well I do think there is a sense of entitlement, when people start thinking they have a right to the programs. Instead of looking it as something that is helpful, and something that they should be grateful of, there is a sense that they own that program, that they deserve to have those benefits. I am not saying everyone does, but it is out there. Its like running into that person who uses Apple products, who tends to be that elitist smug person, and they drive you absolutely crazy. They give apple a bad rap, when there are plenty of apple people out there who are not like that.

[boogielicious]

Well I do think there is a sense of entitlement, when people start thinking they have a right to the programs. Instead of looking it as something that is helpful, and something that they should be grateful of, there is a sense that they own that program, that they deserve to have those benefits. I am not saying everyone does, but it is out there. Its like running into that person who uses Apple products, who tends to be that elitist smug person, and they drive you absolutely crazy. They give apple a bad rap, when there are plenty of apple people out there who are not like that.

But I see it occurring on both sides of the aisle.  The exact mentality that you see people having for the ACA or Medicare or welfare, I see in corporations and Wall Street and farmers.  They are looking for handouts and breaks as well.  But they proceed under the guise of "job creators" or some other hooey.  They put forth a sham that if you don't give them giants breaks in taxes or bailouts, or crop price fixing and subsidies, which they say they are entitled to, then all hell will break loose.

I am all for reducing the cost of government, as long as it is equally spread out.  But I would rather have my tax dollars spent on feeding some hungry kids or providing them a chance to buy healthcare than giving bonuses to millionaire Wall Street execs or Haliburton.  Or paying tobacco farmers subsidies (which by the way apparently ended finally this year).  If we are going to do one, we have to do all.

[Lihu]

We lost 24 Billion during the shutdown when they weren't working.   The sign-ups don't get counted until the first payment, which is due in December.   All private insurance companies are at least that bad (I have BCBS and they suck).  BCBS made me get authorization for a prescription from my Doctor.  Um, isn't the "prescription" the authorization?  My rates have been going up and coverage going down for years and it has nothing to do with the ACA.  My car insurance dropped me for actually making a claim.  I mean Geez! How could I have the audacity to make a claim!  I am just supposed to send them money, right? I am also moderate and an engineer.  But I am tired of both sides sounding Armageddon when they don't like or understand or even take the time to read up on things.

I agree with the operational part of BCBS. I have the same insurance. I just don't understand why it takes 500 million lines of buggy code to run it. I sense that the rest of the plan will be just as cumbersome. I have my doubts if anyone's life will be simpler, especially those who are already filling out a lot of insurance paperwork. Since it's a law, I suppose we need to hope it will at least make a few more lives better. I just wish it would address the current problems better, like "prescription authorizations".

[saevel25]

I was watching the news on the weekend and they showed the hearing for those who made the database for the website. Basically the in between point from the insurance companies to the website, not what we interact with. The guy running the hearing said, "Don't you think you need to apologize to the American people"

All I can think about is, you are the guys that signed this bill into law. You are the guys who gave oversight to President Obama. Shouldn't you be asking President Obama why he isn't apologizing to the American people for not keeping tabs on his signature program. How can they not have had some sort of testing, or progress reports on the website. You'd think a president with community organizer experience would know that any major program or operation needs to have weekly, maybe daily updates, and continuous oversight. This is absurd, and to blame the programmers. I get part of that is their problem, but it falls on the lacking of leadership here.

[Golfingdad]

I was watching the news on the weekend and they showed the hearing for those who made the database for the website. Basically the in between point from the insurance companies to the website, not what we interact with. The guy running the hearing said, "Don't you think you need to apologize to the American people"

All I can think about is, you are the guys that signed this bill into law. You are the guys who gave oversight to President Obama. Shouldn't you be asking President Obama why he isn't apologizing to the American people for not keeping tabs on his signature program. How can they not have had some sort of testing, or progress reports on the website. You'd think a president with community organizer experience would know that any major program or operation needs to have weekly, maybe daily updates, and continuous oversight. This is absurd, and to blame the programmers. I get part of that is their problem, but it falls on the lacking of leadership here.

Did you see Saturday Night Live?  They did a funny bit to open the show with a fake Kathleen Sebelius showing us workarounds for the website.  Among other things, she said that :while millions of Americans were trying to sign up, the website was only designed for 6 people at a time." ;)

They also had a funny joke during Weekend Update which went something like ...  "Kathleen Sebelius said this week that President Obama was not informed of the issues with the website until after all of the problems started.   She made this statement from ... under the bus."  ;)

John Stewart also did a funny clip showing all of the news stations attempting to log on and jokingly opined that they were the reasons why real Americans were having so much trouble.

--------------------------------

If only the Republicans let this go through without the stall and Government shutdown, this would have basically been the only story for the past 4 weeks, and they would have come out like big winners, I think.  Ted Cruz is dumb. ;)

[saevel25]

Yea, Ted Cruz saw an opening and he charged head first into a brick wall.

I am still dumbfounded by the President. Honestly, how do you not check up on it. I understand he wants deniability for when it ****s up. Doesn't that just speak to a lack of leadership right there. He would rather be able to say, "I didn't know this was a problem." Than just man up and say were going to fix it. It's his nature, he only wants to claim victory for anything that makes him look good.

[Mr. Desmond]

Yea, Ted Cruz saw an opening and he charged head first into a brick wall.

I am still dumbfounded by the President. Honestly, how do you not check up on it. I understand he wants deniability for when it ****s up. Doesn't that just speak to a lack of leadership right there. He would rather be able to say, "I didn't know this was a problem." Than just man up and say were going to fix it. It's his nature, he only wants to claim victory for anything that makes him look good.

I think he said that he is disappointed and we're going to fix it.

[David in FL]

I think he said that he is disappointed and we're going to fix it.

He also said, many times, that everyone would be able to keep their current insurance if they were happy with it.

[rustyredcab]

I thought this was one safe place where the only things people posted about, of which they were ignorant or mistaken, was about things like the ability to feel the difference between a forged and a cast 5-iron. Let's not ruin a good thing with talk of politics.

[Golfingdad]

I thought this was one safe place where the only things people posted about, of which they were ignorant or mistaken, was about things like the ability to feel the difference between a forged and a cast 5-iron. Let's not ruin a good thing with talk of politics.

All due respect ... this is the "Grill Room" sub-forum, which opens things up to a variety of other topics besides golf.  Additionally, it's pretty much in the title of the thread that this is going to be about politics, so if you don't want to discuss it, then don't click on it.

If you want to stick around and elaborate on your somewhat veiled and super-vague insult, then we are all ears. :)

[Ernest Jones]

I'm Canadian. We already have universal healthcare. We also have lots of water and parking.  Suck it!

[Mr. Desmond]

He also said, many times, that everyone would be able to keep their current insurance if they were happy with it.

Well, you've got to understand lawyers. We talk in general rules, and generally, he is correct.

The general rule is stated, and then the exceptions to the Rule - but if you go into exceptions, people focus on that instead of the General Rule.

I'm an exception -- I"m certain my plan will have me going to the Exchange within a year. I think they could not drop you before the Act was fully implemented.

[Golfingdad]

I'm Canadian. We already have universal healthcare. We also have lots of water and parking.  Suck it!

How's the weather up there?  What is your golfing schedule for November, December, January, February and March??

Boom!!!!!! (That's the sound of me dropping the mic)

[saevel25]

I'm Canadian. We already have universal healthcare. We also have lots of water and parking.  Suck it!

To Quote Robin Williams, "Canada is like a loft apartment over a really great party."