My Swing (billchao)

[dan9934]

On 3/12/2016 at 8:12 PM, billchao said:

Current swing:

 

I've been working on something that I tried out a couple of weeks ago, liked the change it made so I stuck with it. Basically what I do is I feel like I'm turning (or tilting) the butt of the club to point it at the ball at the top of backswing.

My original thought was that since crossing the line meant the BoC pointed to East Bumble**** at A4 which resulted in me pulling the club down steep and having to throw my arms out to shallow the shaft, I could point the BoC at the ball to start my transition from across the line to back on plane ASAP.

What ended up actually happening is that my club never gets across the line because my conscious motion ends before the actual top of my backswing due to momentum or whatever, so I actually begin the process of getting the club back on plane before it ever gets off plane.

When I first started this move I completely lost the bottom of my swing and any semblance of path control, hitting lots of thins, fats, and shanks. Now I feel like the contact is more consistent so I have to keep working at it. Also I keep addressing the ball too far towards the toe of the club. I need to monitor that.

I feel like I dumb lucked my way into this move so needless to say, I'm as giddy as a blind squirrel with a nut right now.

Great work Bill. Keep it up. This thread is one I keep looking back at to see how nicely swings can progress. I love the changes you have made since your earlier videos!

[billchao]

23 hours ago, dan9934 said:

Great work Bill. Keep it up. This thread is one I keep looking back at to see how nicely swings can progress. I love the changes you have made since your earlier videos!

Thanks. There is still a lot of work to do. I'm still struggling with some of the same problems I had since the beginning of this thread, only less pronounced than it used to be. Everything is a little bit cleaner, but nothing is "fixed" at the same time.

Tops, thins, and fats are few and far in between, with the exception of my driver. That PoS has the biggest hitting area out of the whole bag and it's the only club I can't consistently hit solid. Everything else I pretty much hit solidly, just have a tendency to miss 20-30 yards right on occasion.

---

I found some time today to do some practice. Had a little time earlier in the week to mess with my Blast Motion Golf Replay and found out my tempo with my driver was averaging about 2.2:1 (0.62s backswing vs 0.28s downswing to impact).

I'm not going to pretend fixing my tempo to 3:1 is going to solve the golf swing, but it did get me thinking. I have a tendency to run my backswing long and lose the club across the line, wrists break down, etc., and part of this I feel is the momentum of the club coming up and going forward as I transition into the downswing. So my thought was that I might be able to get more control over the club if I swung slower going back, generating less force I have to fight in transition.

I soecifically targeted the backswing time for change because I felt the downswing time couldn't be changed (all my times were within 1 one-hundreths of a second of my average). It made sense to me because I'm trying to swing as fast as I can in the downswing and have very little control over it once it begins.

Anyway, here are the videos:

 

I was surprised how easily I was able to get the backswing positions that I wanted, very similar to my practice backswings. Basically that is what it felt like to me; I was taking practice backswings and then just firing hard at the ball. I'm actually exaggerating the slowness a little too much IMO, but that will speed up out on the course I'm sure.

I took video earlier in the week and was underplane at takeaway and way across the line at my normal tempo. I like the slower look much better.

[billchao]

Just wanted to elaborate some things from my last round:

40 minutes ago, billchao said:

http://www.gamegolf.com/player/billchao/round/826602

I did the golfs. It went surprisingly well. This course lets me get away with some of my misses, and now that I've played it about a dozen times, I can actually GamePlan it pretty well. Not that I shouldn't have been able to do that already, but I'm stupid. And not the good kind of stupid.

I still have a tendency to pull out driver when it's not the right choice and things like that. For example, the 4th hole is a narrow (for me) hole with OB left and tall trees right. The green is slightly elevated and guarded with bunkers on the left side. At 511 yards, I'd have to hit 2 perfect shots to get on in 2, so there's absolutely no reason to hit driver there and risk hitting my shot into the trees somewhere (which has happened more often than not). Today the plan was 2 hybrids and a wedge on. It almost worked, but even with the miss on the second shot, I walked away with bogey instead of double.

Same thing on the 5th hole. It's 331 yards. I don't need to hit driver at all, especially considering where I can miss. Today I teed off hybrid (actually walked back to my bag from the tee box to put the driver away, too), missed and hit a knee high "stinger" and blew the hole around the green. The tee box decision was solid.

I only teed off with driver where it made sense to and where I could get away with missing right (hit it 5 times, missed right twice) and it made a big difference on the scorecard.

40 minutes ago, billchao said:

Long game was pretty good by my standards. Hit a couple of big pushes where I could get away with them, except for the second shot on 4 where I got lucky it hit a tree and it bounced back in play.

I hit some playable misses, but I'm having some issues with the bottom of my swing arc. I'm not really making a divot, even on a good strike. The ground gets scuffed like I hit a pitch. Sometimes I'll chew up a little clump of turf. I'll either miss thin or on the toe and I feel like I really have to force myself to extend the right arm to get the clubhead down to the ball, the timing of which can significantly affect the result.

I noticed on my videos that I extend both legs basically right from transition, my head comes off the wall, and I lose some of my inclination to the ground. I'm willing to bet that's related.

40 minutes ago, billchao said:

Short game distance control is like the opening of a Dickens' novel. I need to stop using the LW as my go-to club.

I feel like I have to make too long of a swing with the LW and for me, longer swing leads to more problems. I also need to stick with the standard pitching technique that I'm familiar with instead of hitting a chip just because I have room to run the ball on the green, like I did on the 5th hole. I flew it the same distance I would have wanted in a pitch, only it rolled right off the back of the green.

40 minutes ago, billchao said:

Putting was great except for the abysmal failure of a lag putt on 9. I recently changed my setup and I'm nailing my start lines.

I basically tried to zero out my clubface rotation. Stood more hunched over, ball back a hair, arms closer to my body. Lets me bring the putter head more along the target line instead of around my body. Was opening the face 4° in the backswing and closing it 8° at impact with the old setup.

I hit my start lines. All my putts started where I thought they would go and I was able to tell whether I over-read a break or not. I did miss a 4' putt, but it was a touch firm (rolled around the rim about a quarter turn and popped out).

[billchao]

First time hitting a golf ball in almost a month. Not surprised the swing regressed a bit. Was just looking to get a feel for swinging a club again since I have a fitting coming up on Sunday.

I'm about ready to play some golf now. I kind of don't care what the swing is like anymore.

[billchao]

Didn't take much to clean up a few things, so that's promising. Brought the club up steeper: less across the line, less flat to steep transition.

Need to feel the left arm loaded more in front of the left shoulder as opposed to across the chest. Alternatively, Pressure point stays in the armpit as opposed to down the left bicep. Thought is to bring the clubhead back along the target line.

[billchao]

Finally got around to getting a fitting done at the Callaway Performance Center at Neshanic Valley Golf Course. I'm very happy that I did it and now I have a better idea of my equipment needs.

For the irons, I need heavier shafts. I have True Temper XP95s and my fitter and I both ended up really liking the KBS Tours. Heavier shaft keeps me from getting quick at transition and increased my launch angle (7I was averaging 12.5° with the XP95s, almost 16° with the KBS Tours). Felt much better, too.

Irons are also a bit too flat, but since my miss is left we kind of left it alone. Don't want to start the ball farther left than I do at this point.

For the driver, we played around with different shafts and even tried different heads, but ultimately concluded that a heavier shaft only helps a little bit. Need a touch more loft, too, for higher launch.

My biggest problem with the driver is finding the center of the clubface. Misses tend to be high heel. Going to swap out my current shaft for the shorter shaft from my mini driver and see if that helps a bit. Currently averaging 150mph ball speed on 110mph club speed for a pitiful 1.36 smash factor.

Path is significantly improved from this time last year, averaging about 5° right instead of 12°... Also for some reason or another I hit drivers with smaller heads better (contact was better with the Double Black Diamond despite it being a less forgiving club than the XR). It's something I always felt instinctively but it was good to see actual numbers backing it up. The smaller head size and needing more loft is probably why I like the mini driver so much.

Now I have to find some KBS Tour shafts to stick in my CF16s.

[billchao]

Forgot to attach pictures. First 7I shots with the KBS Tour shaft, second looks like a nasty duck hook with the driver. I thought I was taking a picture of my average drives it's just a single shot.

I kind of wish I took more pictures as we went through the whole process but I was focused on what we were doing. The important thing is I know where I can make changes.

[billchao]

2 minutes ago, billchao said:

http://www.gamegolf.com/player/billchao/round/910308

http://www.gamegolf.com/player/billchao/round/920043

Played last Friday with @nevets88. Conditions were perfect. Not too hot, not too cold. Greens were rolling at a good pace. Lost 4 balls on the back 9 that totally blew up my score.

Game Golf had to take my 18-hole round and split it into two separate 9s because Hyatt Hills cuts two holes into every green so you play to two separate pins each playthrough. GG's software doesn't support that so I asked support to split it into separate 9-hole rounds.

Wanted to elaborate on my round:

Driving is still erratic. I'm going to have to play even more conservatively with my club selection. Shorter shaft didn't seem to make a difference. I need to hit hybrid off the tee more.

I'm hitting my irons longer than I'm planning for. Either I've gained some distance or I've been aiming for misses and just missing it less now. It's weird to get a distance, pull a club, hit it solid, and watch it sail over my intended target. Could have hit a few more GIR on that alone.

Irons missing left, too. Not pulls. Path too far right. Can hit it on the sweetspot, watch the ball start on my intended line, and watch it land 15 yards left of my intended target. Need to start the ball farther right or swing more left. Probably easier to open the face a hair and start it farther right.

Can't make solid contact out of medium rough anymore. Used to be a strength of mine. Now the swing is too flat? Need to remember to make adjustments for the rough.

Short game was really good. Missed a couple of shots here and there, but overall had much more success simply focusing on the shot and what I intended to do with it instead of technique. It was a lot more fun trusting that I can execute instead of worrying about how to do it, too. I think what helps is I've changed the way I evaluate my short game success. I'm happy as long as I'm putting on my next shot, even if it's from 8' or something.

The other part of that is my putting has gotten so much better since I made my adjustments that it puts less pressure on my short game. Still have room for improvement, especially on distance control for long putts, but the start lines have gotten so much better that I feel like I'm capable of making everything from inside 10' now.

Next round is Sunday at Green Knoll Golf Course, where I've never played before. It usually takes a little bit of familiarizing myself with a course before I start scoring well. I guess I'll see what happens.

[boogielicious]

7 hours ago, billchao said:

Wanted to elaborate on my round:

Driving is still erratic. I'm going to have to play even more conservatively with my club selection. Shorter shaft didn't seem to make a difference. I need to hit hybrid off the tee more.

I'm hitting my irons longer than I'm planning for. Either I've gained some distance or I've been aiming for misses and just missing it less now. It's weird to get a distance, pull a club, hit it solid, and watch it sail over my intended target. Could have hit a few more GIR on that alone.

Irons missing left, too. Not pulls. Path too far right. Can hit it on the sweetspot, watch the ball start on my intended line, and watch it land 15 yards left of my intended target. Need to start the ball farther right or swing more left. Probably easier to open the face a hair and start it farther right.

Can't make solid contact out of medium rough anymore. Used to be a strength of mine. Now the swing is too flat? Need to remember to make adjustments for the rough.

Short game was really good. Missed a couple of shots here and there, but overall had much more success simply focusing on the shot and what I intended to do with it instead of technique. It was a lot more fun trusting that I can execute instead of worrying about how to do it, too. I think what helps is I've changed the way I evaluate my short game success. I'm happy as long as I'm putting on my next shot, even if it's from 8' or something.

The other part of that is my putting has gotten so much better since I made my adjustments that it puts less pressure on my short game. Still have room for improvement, especially on distance control for long putts, but the start lines have gotten so much better that I feel like I'm capable of making everything from inside 10' now.

Next round is Sunday at Green Knoll Golf Course, where I've never played before. It usually takes a little bit of familiarizing myself with a course before I start scoring well. I guess I'll see what happens.

I'm a bit in the same boat. I played 18 on Monday and used the 5W off the tee very successfully on holes I used to use the driver. I did use the driver three times and got pushes for my effort. I'm really focused on eliminating the hooks.

Have you looked at ball position for the driver? I've noticed if I play it too far forward I can get two way misses. I think it is on the other side of the circle. I did a launch monitor in March that had me at +4 to 5 degree AoA with the ball ahead of my heel, but with a out to in approach. I moved it back and back to still get a +AoA, but with in to out. That put it with the front of the ball at my left heel.

[billchao]

4 hours ago, boogielicious said:

Have you looked at ball position for the driver? I've noticed if I play it too far forward I can get two way misses. I think it is on the other side of the circle. I did a launch monitor in March that had me at +4 to 5 degree AoA with the ball ahead of my heel, but with a out to in approach. I moved it back and back to still get a +AoA, but with in to out. That put it with the front of the ball at my left heel.

The upswing of the swing is always traveling inwards along the arc, so you can end up hitting with a leftward (for a righty) path if your base line is fairly neutral.

Unfortunately for me, I swing way out to the right, so even with a positive AoA, my path is still around +6 or more. I'm hitting heel draws.

I have tried putting the ball farther back and it hasn't helped. Also gives me spin rate issues iirc. Last time I went for a lesson, we tried that for all of 5 swings before we put it back forward.

I have to work on neutralizing the path more still and learn to hit the center of the face. In the meantime it is hybrid city for me.

Clubface control is a serious problem for sure.

[Lihu]

On 5/15/2016 at 1:48 PM, billchao said:

Forgot to attach pictures. First 7I shots with the KBS Tour shaft, second looks like a nasty duck hook with the driver. I thought I was taking a picture of my average drives it's just a single shot.

I kind of wish I took more pictures as we went through the whole process but I was focused on what we were doing. The important thing is I know where I can make changes.

Cool that you got a decent fitting! Are the clubs working better for you?

 

Quote

6.9 LA, 5.7 Closed, SM 1.36? I love that the software states "DRAW" on the shot type instead of "Duck Hook".

 

[billchao]

1 hour ago, Lihu said:

Cool that you got a decent fitting! Are the clubs working better for you?

Haven't built them yet. Shafts are sitting in my closet.

1 hour ago, Lihu said:

6.9 LA, 5.7 Closed, SM 1.36? I love that the software states "DRAW" on the shot type instead of "Duck Hook".

I'm pretty sure what the machine meant to say was "you suck!" 

[Lihu]

11 minutes ago, billchao said:

Haven't built them yet. Shafts are sitting in my closet.

I'm pretty sure what the machine meant to say was "you suck!" 

Yeah, probably not too good for the "in store" version of the software where they want to sell clubs. The "home version" might not be as diplomatic.

[GolfLug]

@billchao, going to make an educated guess here. One possible reason I see for erratic driver (since I have seen your swing in person) is that you might be getting too much behind the ball in an effort to catch it on the upswing. It can lead to a too much of an inside out path for flexible/athletic type bodies or the reverse for arm strong/less flexible guys. Too much hip slide in to the hit, etc. 

The image that helps is 'cover the ball' or 'paint over the ball' or 'staying tall through impact'. Helps you from dropping your right shoulder into the hit too much. Takes a bit getting used to but as long as you have forward ball placement, you will still catch it on the upswing. This is a path fix.

 

[billchao]

Thanks to @GolfLug, I remembered the second part of my last lesson with @pcombs21. Been focusing on the right elbow and the clubhead tipping out at A4 so much that I completely forgot that Tiger Woods cut swing feel: shoulders more open and around horizontally rather than vertically at impact, right shoulder less down. Let the clubhead release down the target line instead of low and left. Allows me to swing the club more left to neutralize my rightward path, but not too much that I start actually swinging left.

Then I spent the better part of a couple of days failing miserably at it. Tried to open the hips more and just ended up dragging my arms behind me. Tried opening the shoulders more and that really didn't do anything.

Today I stumbled on a feel that seems to work: throw the arms out away from me, or towards the target line. Basically unloading accumulator 4 at the top. My thinking was the arms are attached to the shoulders, right? So feeling like I'm swinging them around me will rotate the shoulders more.

 

Seems to clean up a couple of things I've been working on, too. Feels like I'm going to swing right over the ball though. Swinging faster causes me to thin the crap out of the ball on occasion. Need to work on this move slowly.

[billchao]

Latest lesson with @pcombs21. Swing got steep and didn't realize it. Probably from trying not to hit ridiculous draws, gave myself start line issues instead. Also didn't actually solve the curve issue.

Took the hands deeper and saw immediate improvement in ballstriking. Start lines more consistent and shots curved less.

 

Need to add in a little right forearm supination just to keep the club from tipping across the line, too.

I was able to take the swing feel straight from the 7I to the driver and hit the ball well. It's a great feeling since I have never been a good driver of the ball.

Bonus work: partial wedges. Been having contact and control issues with them. Hinging too much.

Incidentally, I'm hitting a 65yd wedge shot and it looks like I'm making a full swing.

I'm happy to have identified the swing issues with my driving and approach shots. I feel I have made significant improvement to my short game and putting this past year, so if I can turn the corner on my long game my scores should drop. Pretty excited about the rest of the season now.

[nevets88]

13 minutes ago, billchao said:

Incidentally, I'm hitting a 65yd wedge shot and it looks like I'm making a full swing.

I'm happy to have identified the swing issues with my driving and approach shots. I feel I have made significant improvement to my short game and putting this past year, so if I can turn the corner on my long game my scores should drop. Pretty excited about the rest of the season now.

I can attest to the pro ball flight on that wedge shot. Low and checked up. Nice!

[iacas]

On June 16, 2016 at 11:31 AM, billchao said:

Watch that the left arm isn't too deep at 5 and 6.