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Should Divots Be Considered Ground Under Repair?


Should divot holes be considered GUR under the Rules of Golf?  

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  1. 1. Should divot holes be considered GUR under the Rules of Golf?



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Hey @David in FL and @iacas , I just figured out the answer to your "What's the definition of a divot" question.  In addition to giving everybody a tube of sand to fill in divot holes, they can also give everybody a can of spray paint.  After each shot, just draw a circle around your divot hole, and Voila!!!  Instant GUR.

"Do you feel that?  Huh?  Huh?  Oh Yeah!!!  I have exorcised the demons!!!!!!!!!  This house ... is clear!!!"

Some of the rat-bastards I play with will just paint a circle around their ball anytime they don't like the lie.....

I gotta get a better class of golfing buddies! ;-)

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Just an FYI, mate.... I have been around this forum for quite a few years and have been involved in my fair share of debates. I have (or had) the habit of looking for controversial subjects to po

See below for an excerpt from a joint USGA and R&A report on topics not addressed in the 2019 modernization of the Rules. Apparently, the discussion on divot holes was very short, about the length

Two reasons. An embedded ball is in the same rule (16 IIRC) as “abnormal course conditions.” An embedded ball is not a “normal” course condition - it’s conditions that are softer than normal, so

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Some of the rat-bastards I play with will just paint a circle around their ball anytime they don't like the lie.....

I gotta get a better class of golfing buddies!

Don't worry ... those greedy guys will probably run out of paint by the 11th hole and then they'll be screwed. LOL!

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  • 2 weeks later...

I think so.  If you hit a good shot into the middle of the fairway you should be rewarded with a good lie.  That is why they have nicely trimmed fairways and the rough is rough.  If you hit a lousy shot off the fairway you have to deal with the lousy lie, you earned it.  If you hit a beautiful shot you have earned a beautiful lie and if something man-made has caused your lie to be horrible then it's free drop time.  That's how I play but it really doesn't matter, I'm rarely in the fairway anyway. :-D

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Not true.  This is why the rules are written in black and white.  The moved, or it didn't move.  It doesn't matter that it only moved a millimeter and that nothing about the next stroke was changed by it.  The moved, replace and take the penalty, move on.  The ball is in an imperfection in the fairway?  Play it as it lies.  Not all bare spots in the fairway are divot holes, whether someone filled them with sand or not.

Tufts wrote in Principles, "Golf, like life, is full of breaks.  It is a game of chance, one of its fascinations being in "the way the ball bounces.""  The real golfer accepts such adversity as part of the game and plays on.

There is not supposed to be imperfections in the fairway?  It's not my fault the course didn't fix it before I played.  Same with bare spots, free drop. :-)

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No because it would just be too difficult to define when the divot is not a divot anymore.  I will admit it is one of the most frustrating bad break you get in got is to hit your career drive only to find the ball in the fairway in a 2 inch deep divot some A$$hole didn't fill.  But because of what several before me have said it is just not really possible to define when a divot isn't a divot anymore.  One thing we don't need in golf are rules that are subjective.

Precisely!   It is not my fault this a hole didn't fill his divot and if my drive was beautiful his divot does not deserve to screw that up. Free drop.

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Agree with many of you that divot holes (either repaired, sanded or unrepaired) are just a part of golf.  What sort of ticks me off is that there are usually two types of players with regard to divots.  One is the player who conscientiously repairs their divot holes, often fixes other obvious ones and plays their shot from the lie that they get, be it in an unrepaired divot hole or not.  The other views divot holes as an abomination and freely moves their ball out of the hole.  This player often is one who rarely repairs divot holes since the presence of unrepaired holes is not an issue for their game.

I am a member at a local country club and consider the course mine.  I fix my divots and often fix others.  I also don't let someone else"s divot ruin a good shot.

To tell the truth I can't remember when I have moved my ball from a divot but most assuredly would unless playing with others and they say no.

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There is not supposed to be imperfections in the fairway?  It's not my fault the course didn't fix it before I played.  Same with bare spots, free drop.

Says who?

Precisely!   It is not my fault this a hole didn't fill his divot and if my drive was beautiful his divot does not deserve to screw that up. Free drop.

And when you hit a wayward shot that unexpectedly hits a tree and bounces back into the fairway, do you recognize that you didn't deserve that good luck and toss the ball back into the woods?

BTW.....you're denying yourself the great pleasure of hitting a good shot from a tough situation.  Don't cheat yourself out of that joy. :-)

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Says who?

The only person that matters.

And when you hit a wayward shot that unexpectedly hits a tree and bounces back into the fairway, do you recognize that you didn't deserve that good luck and toss the ball back into the woods?

Absolutely not!

BTW.....you're denying yourself the great pleasure of hitting a good shot from a tough situation.  Don't cheat yourself out of that joy.

Don't worry, I get plenty of opportunities to hit good shots from tough situations, I'm in em all the time!

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ghalfaire

No because it would just be too difficult to define when the divot is not a divot anymore.  I will admit it is one of the most frustrating bad break you get in got is to hit your career drive only to find the ball in the fairway in a 2 inch deep divot some A$$hole didn't fill.  But because of what several before me have said it is just not really possible to define when a divot isn't a divot anymore.  One thing we don't need in golf are rules that are subjective.

Precisely!   It is not my fault this a hole didn't fill his divot and if my drive was beautiful his divot does not deserve to screw that up. Free drop.

I don't even understand what you said here.  Ghalfaire was agreeing with the rest of us that you should not get relief from divots, then you appear to be agreeing with him while saying the opposite.  Divot are not, and never will be ground under repair.  They are a natural part of the game, not something to be legislated out.  Like any other bad break in the game, you learn to accept it and deal with it if you really want to be a golfer.

In any event, I hope you never play in any sort of competition, because your rules won't fly then.

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How about this for a thread:

Should ponds be considered casual water?

That makes about as much sense as calling a divot GUR.

The 10th hole at one of my favorite courses has a pond that's about 275 off the tee.  Kind of a tough shot, because if you lay back too far you're on a nasty down-slope with about 190 yards carry over the water into the green, so I always hit driver.  The next time I'm lucky enough to really bust a drive that gets into the pond, I think I'll just forgo the penalty, because I shouldn't be penalized for hitting a great (for me) drive like that! ;-)

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The 10th hole at one of my favorite courses has a pond that's about 275 off the tee.  Kind of a tough shot, because if you lay back too far you're on a nasty down-slope with about 190 yards carry over the water into the green, so I always hit driver.  The next time I'm lucky enough to really bust a drive that gets into the pond, I think I'll just forgo the penalty, because I shouldn't be penalized for hitting a great (for me) drive like that!

Is that pond designed into the golf course as a hazard that you knew was there?  Then I would say if you hit into it then you suffer whatever the penalty is.

Is that divot left by someone not courteous enough to fix it supposed to be there?  Especially when it happens to be in the ideal location the course may be designed for you to hit to?  The title of the thread is "should divots be considered GUR?"  I say yes because they don't belong there.  Does a golf course with a whole bunch of divots make for a more exciting play or does it suck?  why? Because they don't belong there.  I think the guy who started the thread knows what the "rule" is, he was asking a question and I simply say yes.  If I were playing with some buddies and one of them was sitting in someone's divot after a perfect shot I would expect them to move it and I suspect they would say the same to me.  If my buddy got done and said he shot a 98 I would not think that was a bogus number because he set his ball outside a giant divot back on the 8th fairway.

Not to mention: Are you "repairing the ground" when you pour some sand in it?   Maybe that's what the rule needs to be, if you find yourself in someones divot and you are willing to meticulously repair that divot, you get to call that GUR because you just did it.  Now you get the lie your should have had anyway.   Do you think if you told the pro back at the clubhouse that's what you do he would think you are a cheater or would he say thanks?

Maybe if one day I'm shooting in the 80's instead of having a hard time breaking 100 it might matter

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Is that pond designed into the golf course as a hazard that you knew was there?  Then I would say if you hit into it then you suffer whatever the penalty is. Is that divot left by someone not courteous enough to fix it supposed to be there?  Especially when it happens to be in the ideal location the course may be designed for you to hit to?  The title of the thread is "should divots be considered GUR?"  I say yes because they don't belong there.  Does a golf course with a whole bunch of divots make for a more exciting play or does it suck?  why? Because they don't belong there.  I think the guy who started the thread knows what the "rule" is, he was asking a question and I simply say yes.  If I were playing with some buddies and one of them was sitting in someone's divot after a perfect shot I would expect them to move it and I suspect they would say the same to me.  If my buddy got done and said he shot a 98 I would not think that was a bogus number because he set his ball outside a giant divot back on the 8th fairway. Not to mention: Are you "repairing the ground" when you pour some sand in it?   Maybe that's what the rule needs to be, if you find yourself in someones divot and you are willing to meticulously repair that divot, you get to call that GUR because you just did it.  Now you get the lie your should have had anyway.   Do you think if you told the pro back at the clubhouse that's what you do he would think you are a cheater or would he say thanks?    Maybe if one day I'm shooting in the 80's instead of having a hard time breaking 100 it might matter

Miss the point much?? You play the ball down and you play the course as you found it, divots and all. Look, you can break whatever rules you want if it makes the game more enjoyable. Have at it, but that doesn't mean the rules should be changed to accommodate you. Play by whatever rules let you enjoy the game but realize, and accept, that you are not playing by the rules of golf. That should allow everyone to coexist quite comfortably but if you insist on trying to convince others that the rules should be changed to suit your needs and wants you will encounter a whole lot of pushback.

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Miss the point much?? You play the ball down and you play the course as you found it, divots and all.

Look, you can break whatever rules you want if it makes the game more enjoyable. Have at it, but that doesn't mean the rules should be changed to accommodate you. Play by whatever rules let you enjoy the game but realize, and accept, that you are not playing by the rules of golf.

That should allow everyone to coexist quite comfortably but if you insist on trying to convince others that the rules should be changed to suit your needs and wants you will encounter a whole lot of pushback.

I'm sorry but I don't think I missed the point, I think you did. The guy did not ask what the rule was, he asked if divots should be considered ground under repair and I can see perfectly well why someone would ask that question.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Ernest Jones

Miss the point much?? You play the ball down and you play the course as you found it, divots and all.

Look, you can break whatever rules you want if it makes the game more enjoyable. Have at it, but that doesn't mean the rules should be changed to accommodate you. Play by whatever rules let you enjoy the game but realize, and accept, that you are not playing by the rules of golf.

That should allow everyone to coexist quite comfortably but if you insist on trying to convince others that the rules should be changed to suit your needs and wants you will encounter a whole lot of pushback.

I'm sorry but I don't think I missed the point, I think you did. The guy did not ask what the rule was, he asked if divots should be considered ground under repair and I can see perfectly well why someone would ask that question.

Casual players with little knowledge of the Rules ask that question frequently. The answer is always the same ....

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Ernest Jones

Miss the point much?? You play the ball down and you play the course as you found it, divots and all.

Look, you can break whatever rules you want if it makes the game more enjoyable. Have at it, but that doesn't mean the rules should be changed to accommodate you. Play by whatever rules let you enjoy the game but realize, and accept, that you are not playing by the rules of golf.

That should allow everyone to coexist quite comfortably but if you insist on trying to convince others that the rules should be changed to suit your needs and wants you will encounter a whole lot of pushback.

I'm sorry but I don't think I missed the point, I think you did. The guy did not ask what the rule was, he asked if divots should be considered ground under repair and I can see perfectly well why someone would ask that question.

And he was answered.  Correctly ( and according to the rules because we are in the Rules Forum).  Logically (divots are a natural part of the game, and have been since the first one was created some 400 years ago).  Then you decided to add your two cents worth.... and it doesn't even have that much value.

You are entitled to your opinion, and we are entitled to show you how wrong you are.

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Ya know, there's a cure for all this divot complaining......Adams Tight Lies, just ask Tom Watson.

Sorry, I couldn't resist... :-D

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Casual players with little knowledge of the Rules ask that question frequently. The answer is always the same ....

I see, now I'm a casual player with little knowledge of the rules?  I know what the rules say but simply because I think you should get relief from someones divot because it really is GUR  I'm a heathen?  A cheater and rule breaker?  Why thank you.

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  • iacas changed the title to Should Divots Be Considered Ground Under Repair?

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