Why Don't You Take Lessons?

[0ldblu3]

Did I miss something?

I think what they are referring to is the intentional trolling nature of your statement. It is unlikely that all of the 1000's and 1000's of golfers and instructors over all of the years are just people with poor reading comprehension or too much money. But if you do, then I'd just have to say that your opinion is noted and thanks for contributing.

My instructor realized that I liked to understand the physics of the swing and related to me in those terms. That really helped.

[Entropy]

I could never justify spending $100/hr on private lessons with so much cheap/free instruction out there. Between Hogan and Pelz's Books and online stuff I've found I managed to shoot in 70's rather quickly. Lessons are for people with money or poor reading comprehension.

[Dr._chip_in]

How about not having the luck of being born with natural golfing talent?

I don't think talent is largely relevant to this topic. An instructor isn't going to be able to overcome poor coordination any more than a book can. Books are a lot more patient with those kind of folks.

[Phil McGleno]

The problem with your approach of looking on the Internet is that you have to have a good filter for what is good information And what is JUNK and GARBAGE information.-There is a lot more CRAP out there than good stuff.[quote name="Dr._chip_in" url="/t/71210/why-dont-you-take-lessons/72#post_924294"]I don't think talent is largely relevant to this topic. An instructor isn't going to be able to overcome poor coordination any more than a book can. Books are a lot more patient with those kind of folks.  [/quote]

[Dr._chip_in]

I think what they are referring to is the intentional trolling nature of your statement. It is unlikely that all of the 1000's and 1000's of golfers and instructors over all of the years are just people with poor reading comprehension or too much money. But if you do, then I'd just have to say that your opinion is noted and thanks for contributing.

My instructor realized that I liked to understand the physics of the swing and related to me in those terms. That really helped.

Perhaps it was a bit of a troll post but I just hate to see people wasting their money.

Books just provide so much more information per dollar. And a great book is a lot easier to find than a great instructor.

[Phil McGleno]

Youre an idiot.-Maybe everyone should run all of their value judgments by you so they dont waste their money. None of my students are wasting their money.-And this site is run by two seemingly fine instructors. Youre not only being an idiot you're being kind of a jerk.- Glad the book learnin' is working for you but youll have a different tude when you can't break par and your books can't help you.[quote name="Dr._chip_in" url="/t/71210/why-dont-you-take-lessons/72#post_924299"]Perhaps it was a bit of a troll post but I just hate to see people wasting their money. [/quote]

[Dr._chip_in]

The problem with your approach of looking on the Internet is that you have to have a good filter for what is good information And what is JUNK and GARBAGE information.-There is a lot more CRAP out there than good stuff.

People who can't discern between good or bad writings on golf won't be able to discern between good or bad instructors either.

[Entropy]

I think the value of lessons is not necessarily the instructions you receive but having the watchful eye of a trained professional focus on your particular swing.  I for one find it difficult to translate some of the instruction on Youtube or from books into my actual practice because there isn't a good way for me to know if I am properly executing whatever I am practicing.  Even if you start flushing shots with whatever drill or change you are making, that doesn't necessarily mean you have successfully incorporated the lesson from Youtube into your swing.  In fact, when making a swing change sometimes the best swings result in dead shanks and without an expert around to tell you it was a good swing I think you'd be kind of lost.

[Dr._chip_in]

Youre an idiot.-Maybe everyone should run all of their value judgments by you so they dont waste their money.

None of my students are wasting their money.-And this site is run by two seemingly fine instructors. Youre not only being an idiot you're being kind of a jerk.- Glad the book learnin' is working for you but youll have a different tude when you can't break par and your books can't help you.

I would normally retaliate harshly but I can see you yourself are an instructor  and clearly have a lot more vested interested in this argument than I do. I don't mean to try and take away your livelihood I just don't see how else the game is going to be able to grow with such prohibitive costs to become a half decent golfer. It's more efficient to teach people to teach themselves.

[Ernest Jones]

I agree with Phil. Less trolls please.

[ReviewMyGolfPro]

The decision was based on convenience and mainly just a hunch.  The PGA apprentice who gave me the lessons teaches a lotal my local course and I eavesdropped a few times while hitting balls and I liked what I was hearing.  He has a very positive attitude, which I appreciate, and was also rather technical for someone giving lessons to a beginner which appeals to me as a golf geek.  I had come to the point in my game where I was scoring pretty well and my miss with the irons (hook) and shot shape (largeish draw) were pretty consistent but not desirable, so I figured I had just picked up a bad habit.  I tried to fix the problem myself using youtube, forums, golf channel etc, but eventually I realized I can't fix something when I don't know what the problem is.  I needed another pair of eyes to look at my swing and tell me what specifically to work on to tighten my dispersion and get my shot shape less extreme.  Since I didn't need a complete swing overhaul, I couldn't justify spending big bucks on lessons and the PGA apprentice helped me out for a $40 half hour lesson that really was more like 50 minutes.  After a few swings he was able to tell me that I was swinging too far in to out but the thing that was causing the most inconsistency was my tendency to sway laterally on the back swing.  He gave me a few drills and before the end of the day I was hitting nice high draws with the irons and my misses were much more playable.  I think the message here is, when you decide to get lessons you have to know what you want to get out of them.  For me, it was focus and direction, kind of like a tune up.  For others it might be more of an overhaul.

Tremendous perspective, I agree wholeheartedly with your closing point.  Thanks for answering.

[Phil McGleno]

Prohibitive costs-Ha. I sell a lot of season pass lesson plans for $300-Six lessons of 45 minutes. Less than the cost of a few rounds at decent courses. Again who are you to make value judgments for others?-Good for you that you think you found something that works for you.-Good luck to you too when you cant break par and dont know what to do.[quote name="Dr._chip_in" url="/t/71210/why-dont-you-take-lessons/72#post_924307"]I would normally retaliate harshly but I can see you yourself are an instructor  and clearly have a lot more vested interested in this argument than I do. I don't mean to try and take away your livelihood I just don't see how else the game is going to be able to grow with such prohibitive costs to become a half decent golfer. It's more efficient to teach people to teach themselves.  [/quote]

[iacas]

If you like books and don't want to spend money on instruction (particularly if you're a fan of wasting your time trying to sort through the online instruction stuff that's out there), then @Dr._chip_in you should take a look at these two links:

• http://thesandtrap.com/t/71214/lowest-score-wins-a-first-of-its-kind-golf-book-for-anyone-who-wants-to-lower-their-score
• http://igg.me/at/lswbook/

Thanks.

[mvmac]

Perhaps it was a bit of a troll post but I just hate to see people wasting their money.

Books just provide so much more information per dollar.

Certain books, like one or two, can give you some good knowledge but no book is going to tell you what your priority piece is.

[TT47]

I feel I need to get reading after a lesson from a pro just to get an angle on what he was talking about. They use too much golf lingo for my liking, especially these days and I feel a bit stupid always asking them to elaborate. My last lesson I was told that I had to learn to shallow the shaft in the downswing. He must think that I have time to change in the downswing. It takes all my concentration to get to a decent shaft plane at the end of the backswing. How on earth does one shallow the plane on the downswing anyhoot?

[Harmonious]

Before the pigpile on Dr Chipin gets too big, let me offer that I think his approach will work FOR SOME PEOPLE and UP TO A POINT (notice the emphases). I more or less followed this approach for many years, starting with Hogan and then Pelz for the short game. I got down under a 10 pretty easily with Hogan (thanks to natural ability, I guess, because I never took lessons or practiced too much). Learning Pelz's approach to the short game, and more intense practice) got me down to about a 5. But that's as far as I could get.

To get any better required someone else to look at my swing. A knowledgeable person. A hands-on person. Someone who could look at my swing and identify things that I had no awareness I was doing wrong. I was a notorious flipper who could muddle through because of a decent short game. But until I got the right person who could explain what to do in a way I could understand, I could never hope to improve my ballstriking to the point to get down to scratch.

For other people learning the game, the voyage will no doubt be different. But please don't get hung up and resort to name-calling when someone "newish" comes on here and offers a different opinion. Who knows, there may in fact be some truth in what they say.

[Ernest Jones]

I feel I need to get reading after a lesson from a pro just to get an angle on what he was talking about. They use too much golf lingo for my liking, especially these days and I feel a bit stupid always asking them to elaborate. My last lesson I was told that I had to learn to shallow the shaft in the downswing. He must think that I have time to change in the downswing. It takes all my concentration to get to a decent shaft plane at the end of the backswing. How on earth does one shallow the plane on the downswing anyhoot?

Swing to right field. I also find it helps to feel like the clubhead is "falling" behind you all the way to impact. It's a tough one, I've been working on this many, many months and am just now starting to see some proficiency with it. Unfortunately I've created a bunch of other issues in the process but I'll tackle them later. Shallower shaft is my priority piece so it's all I work at.

[TT47]

Swing to right field. I also find it helps to feel like the clubhead is "falling" behind you all the way to impact. It's a tough one, I've been working on this many, many months and am just now starting to see some proficiency with it. Unfortunately I've created a bunch of other issues in the process but I'll tackle them later. Shallower shaft is my priority piece so it's all I work at.

Thanks EJ, I think.

I know you mean well but you talk like i should be able to feel this all the way to impact. In reality transition to impact for me is basically just a blur. I am stupid right?